Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Unknowncommando 2]

Bro. Lol I was asking if you have any knoeldknood how they are progressing in the competition

Arrr my bad . Msg uska dekha aur quote tuze kiya jaldi me . :biggrin2:
No updates about rankings yet bro.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

I don't know why mku helmet is being issued to SF . It should be for infantry only.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Brass catcher
NSG Commandos ...............

 

[abingdonboy]

Folks I have no problems as said calling for more new age equipment, that is not the case. But, to compare the Somali SF to our SF is just asking for it.

While I wholeheartedly agree that almost every piece of item on SF needs an upgrade. To equalize equipment level to operational abilities is silly.

The primary weapon in the SF is always the soldier, while equipment can always give an advantage. It's the soldier that needs to pass through years of missions, hurdles and never ending cycle of training. Most Indian SF are very very good at adapting to all kinds of situations and their training is on par with the Tier-1 units. What we hear on day-to day basis is only 10% of what they do. I don't see any other SF units playing chicken in the enemy's back yard especially one that keeps talking cock & bull about Newclear hot fart. People forget these are men who don't make excuses for failure, they are trained killers and will get the job done be it via a clean slit to throat of those who behead our men or pour down right hellfire from all directions after having trekked several miles of high altitude forests to hit well guarded launching pads. Most western SFs get into air taxis or vehicles, how good are they when they need to infiltrate mine infested areas, surrounded by well armed and dug in border outposts that can lay down HMG fire, mortars. They also carry a shit ton of ammo, supplies, heck even stretchers on foot in forests so quiet and dark at night even the faintest rustle on the ground can travel a 100m. Combine the snow in winters, ambient light from the moon, even the darkest night can be very bright so to speak.

From operations we know they use drones, IR devices, sophisticated navigation aids (including the humble compass) 2-3rd gen NVG, decent combat proven sights, wall penetrating radars, corner shots, decent rifles etc. They have done so while pursuing militants across into Myanmar in a 24 hr over 50km trek via deep thick jungle (where the forest is so thick, GPS signals can't penetrate). They have done so during Pathankot, a wide gamut of tech and equipment was put to good use during the surgical strikes. They did so while managing to put on a vast deception in a place which is littered with enemy eyes and counter intel. At the moment, our SF have the similar equipment level as Israeli SF, which are among the finest.

Come back when there are SF with such balls elsewhere. There are few good out there but they remain few.

Heck even our Ghataks can run circle around most SF units around the world in most terrains. If one golden balls Yogender Singh Yadav can scale a 1000 ft 90-95 degree incline with nothing but his rifle and his balls. He get's up there kills several uniformed pigs with bare hands, liberates several bunkers from their occupiers all while he had been shot 17 times.

Equipment, rifles, grenades, drones, sights, NVGs are all tools. The real and only multi tool will and should always be the man and these items are just an extension of him.

We in India have different realities and our Sf are already well geared for any action in Asia. With time, they will only get better since equipment is fast being improved.

Chill with the comparisons, give thanks to God that we for now have a better Govt. to serve such interests. Also comparing with other noob forces is silly, also not everyone is running around with 4-tube NVGs, only DEVGRU, DELTA, STS have access to them. Also appreciate the road to change, people are so childish. It's the journey to the destination that can be fun and exiting. While many see the slowness of having a JSOC style command for SF in India, I actually know for a fact that whatever is happening now is a result of years and years of careful deliberation, war gaming and discussion between the services to changing nature of conflict.

People who keep labeling our SF among the worst are only making giant fools of themselves. they also sound far too naPaki. Let's see how many of those SF units would keep their fancy helmets, heavy plate carriers on while on 24hr deadline where they need to trek over 50km in areas infested with land mines, spies, mosquito infested thick jungle, over 30 degrees in temp plus 96% humidity. Then go in on direct full frontal assault killing over a 100, killing another dozen re-enforcement trying to flank them in quick shots. These guys make most of the SF units look like pansies honestly. While I don't underestimate any force out there, I am fully confident in ours. We should be thankful that we continue to find soldiers worthy of that history and legacy. We should indeed provide them with all the gear they need, quicker the better.

There are many awesome posts in this thread and very well written and I commend folks like rkhanna, Sayare, Bhadra, Gessler, Aditya and others for lovely reads. Gents, keep it up.

Let’s just keep this discussion about equipment because when we start talking about the men behind the equipment people start getting emotional.

That said I can GUARANTEE you that Indian SF are behind the curve where it concerns modern war fighting as tactics follow equipment. When Indian SFs have 20 year old NVGs it limits their ability to operate. Western SF almost exclusively operate at night these days and take targets by surprise. How many times do we hear of security ops being called off in JK because of low light?

This allows Western SF to be far more flexible and aggressive with their tactics.

Objectively Indian SF are not world class and it shows in their equipment. They don’t take themselves seriously.

I have no doubt they are good soldiers in the conventional sense (hiking, navigation etc) but they are not at the top tier level you can see from Western SF operators.

 

[abingdonboy]

View attachment 34253
I don't know why mku helmet is being issued to SF . It should be for infantry only.

The jokes just never end. Seems ACH is now standard issue for SFs too so gap
Between SFs and infantry is now almost nonexistent.

Can’t believe it’s got this bad.

 

[abingdonboy]

Not udhaari bhai . New stuff . Here some new pics from recent drill.
View attachment 34231 View attachment 34232

NSG is perhaps the only
Specialist force to be proud of in India these days. They seem to be one of the few forces evolving in real time and who are applying lessons from around the world in their training and equipment.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

GHATAK PLATOON Upgrade
L to R
1)Jawan with MKU Helmet + NV Mount & Romanian AK
2)Romanian AK with FAB DEFENCE Modifications
3)Bulgarian Arsenal AR + BEL Holographic Sight & 2×EXFIL Ballistic Helmets + Tonbo Imaging Thermal Sights

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

From L
(1) FAB Defence Modified Romanian AK , MKU Helmet + Go Pro
(2) EXFIL Ballistic helmet + Tonbo Arjun Sight ( Low Quality but visible )
(3) Romanian AK + BEL Holographic Sight , MKU Helmet + NV Mount

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Ghataks look better than our SF. Which makes me hope that the real SF gear isn't being shown to the public just yet.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

NSG is perhaps the only
Specialist force to be proud of in India these days. They seem to be one of the few forces evolving in real time and who are applying lessons from around the world in their training and equipment.

I agree with this.
But I suppose upgradation and building interaction with other units of the type is helped by the fact that the NSG is by and large an inactive force. Atleast when in comparison to the Para who are largely overworked on both borders. I wonder if that is being an hindrance to the systemic upgradation of the gear.
Simply put we are not the US, who have seamlessly integrated upgrades while still carrying on with operational duties.

This is also why our forces look so "jugaadu" all the time. They have to make the best of what they have.

 

[abingdonboy]

Ghataks look better than our SF. Which makes me hope that the real SF gear isn't being shown to the public just yet.

Fanciful thinking.

Ghataks are being upgraded rapidly because they are a relatively small force within infantry BTNs and they can largely be upgraded entirely from discretionary funds of the local commanders.

SFs operate under entirely different procurement criteria as they are so large that upgrades need to go through the “regular” channels and we all know how that ends up. The Army has pretty much zero CAPEX to spare and SFs are a low priority item for them.

As I have said. SOD is perhaps the only hope to break this cycle as they will hopefully be entirely de-linked from the big military and have their own separate budget with high discretionary spending.

I agree with this.
But I suppose upgradation and building interaction with other units of the type is helped by the fact that the NSG is by and large an inactive force. Atleast when in comparison to the Para who are largely overworked on both borders. I wonder if that is being an hindrance to the systemic upgradation of the gear.
Simply put we are not the US, who have seamlessly integrated upgrades while still carrying on with operational duties.

This is also why our forces look so "jugaadu" all the time. They have to make the best of what they have.

I would say it’s wrong to claim NSG is largely inactive. They are perhaps the most active force in India between training with foreign units, training with/of domestic forces, forward deployments, conducting security audits etc etc. It wasn’t long ago when the NSG had to cancel their own raising day celebrations because they were so stretched in terms of manpower.

Anyway I don’t see how being highly utilised would mean upgrading would be hit, if anything this should act as a catalyst for upgrading and making sure the guys get what they need but instead red tape and babudom has hindered them massively.


The whole system is broken and the state of the SFs is just another testament to this.

 

[Bhadra]

Ghataks look better than our SF. Which makes me hope that the real SF gear isn't being shown to the public just yet.

Not even a proper and sanctioned organisation.

Infantry is having a hard time for manpower. They have had Int and Svl Sec with modern sensors, HHTI, snippers and Radars and now UAVs but no manpower for extra equipment, Their Pioneers, MT Platoon, A/tk platoon etc have undergone changes in terms of equipment upgrade without any additional manpower. On LC, the problems gets exacerbated with additional crew weapons and equipment. Their six mortars makes a platoon whereas similar six mortars in artillery make a battery. Their eight missiles launcher makes a platoon. Same eight missile makes company in missile regiment !

On top of that Ghatak? not formalised. So no manpower. No issued equipment, no budgets, no specialised training, no formal institutions to train them. But battalions will have Ghatak !!.


Strange ways of India !!

 

[Bhadra]

What was that issue of green dot mark on Rahul Gandhi ?
He said he was targeted by his SPG ?

Is that possible ?

 

[abingdonboy]

Not even a proper and sanctioned organisation.

Infantry is having a hard time for manpower. They have had Int and Svl Sec with modern sensors, HHTI, snippers and Radars and now UAVs but no manpower for extra equipment, Their Pioneers, MT Platoon, A/tk platoon etc have undergone changes in terms of equipment upgrade without any additional manpower. On LC, the problems gets exacerbated with additional crew weapons and equipment. Their six mortars makes a platoon whereas similar six mortars in artillery make a battery. Their eight missiles launcher makes a platoon. Same eight missile makes company in missile regiment !

On top of that Ghatak? not formalised. So no manpower. No issued equipment, no budgets, no specialised training, no formal institutions to train them. But battalions will have Ghatak !!.


Strange ways of India !!

Don’t know where you have got this idea from.

Ghataks follow a very formalised training regime and their equipment levels are entirely standardised. Ghataks have been sanctioned officially for years and are part of formal macro level strategy concepts.

They aren’t just rag tag organisation raised in need basis by individual battalions.

 

[abingdonboy]

What was that issue of green dot mark on Rahul Gandhi ?
He said he was targeted by his SPG ?

Is that possible ?

It was a camera reflection from some CONgress photographer, don’t point fingers at professionals and make such wild and outrageous accusations without any evidence sir.

 

[Bhadra]

It was a camera reflection from some CONgress photographer, don’t point fingers at professionals and make such wild and outrageous accusations without any evidence sir.

I only asked if what Rahul said was possible?
No allegation.

 

[Bhadra]

Don’t know where you have got this idea from.

Ghataks follow a very formalised training regime and their equipment levels are entirely standardised. Ghataks have been sanctioned officially for years and are part of formal macro level strategy concepts.

They aren’t just rag tag organisation raised in need basis by individual battalions.

No .. I do not think Ghatak is a sanctioned organisation.
I am also of the belief that there is no formalised training regime for them.
What ever weapons etc they carry is authorised to someone else in the battalion.

 

[abingdonboy]

No .. I do not think Ghatak is a sanctioned organisation.
I am also of the belief that there is no formalised training regime for them.
What ever weapons etc they carry is authorised to someone else in the battalion.

This simply isn’t true.

They are a sanctioned force for every BTN and have been for almost 2 decades now, it is part of a BTN’s ORBAT.

Selection and training is done to a common approach and they are equipped accordingly.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012050...ns-inks-three-defence-deals-for-the-army.html

 

[abingdonboy]

I only asked if what Rahul said was possible?
No allegation.

It’s obviously not possible as it was debunked almost immediately

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....tographer-not-of-a-laser-spg-tells-mha/398449

 

[Bhadra]

This simply isn’t true.

They are a sanctioned force for every BTN and have been for almost 2 decades now, it is part of a BTN’s ORBAT.

Selection and training is done to a common approach and they are equipped accordingly.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012050...ns-inks-three-defence-deals-for-the-army.html

That is very good ... I will check.