Indian Special Forces (archived)

[MuzzleVelocity]

I must say that the conversation from the last few posts were brilliant and very enlightening.

 

[Gessler]

One can hope that this type of industry can be supported by the Govt and Forces. In the US there is a secondary civilian market which helps keeps the companies independent of Govt orders. Since India has no such market, the Govt will really have to ensure continuous support which is not always possible unless as you say even CAPF & State Police entities start getting in.

Also remember that SOCOM has a HUGEEE budget compared to our SF. Heck in some years i'm quite sure SOCOM itself has had a bigger budget than the whole iA. So level of equipment and support will never be the same. And honestly doesn't have to be. The mission profiles our boys conduct are not easily comparable with what SOCOM undertakes nor the methodology with which each outfit operates. So its not necessarily the case that the type of equipment SOCOM buys would be suitable or even required by our SF.

Bulk of SOCOM budget goes toward the really big ticket items like infrastructure and support assets which allow them the ability to respond to any location and situation anywhere on the globe.

Network infra, communications, transportation assets (specialized helos like MH-47G and development of such things as the Stealth Black Hawk that no one knew existed until OBL raid, although such projects are mostly funded by black budgets).

Adoption of personal equipment (stuff worn by a soldier on his body) is relatively inexpensive. If smaller countries like Poland, Nigeria and Indonesia can do it, we can do it.

 

[uoftotaku]

Bulk of SOCOM budget goes toward the really big ticket items like infrastructure and support assets which allow them the ability to respond to any location and situation anywhere on the globe.

Network infra, communications, transportation assets (specialized helos like MH-47G and development of such things as the Stealth Black Hawk that no one knew existed until OBL raid, although such projects are mostly funded by black budgets).

Adoption of personal equipment (stuff worn by a soldier on his body) is relatively inexpensive. If smaller countries like Poland, Nigeria and Indonesia can do it, we can do it.

Where there is a will there is a way. Sadly the will has been lacking all this while both in the govt and the military itself (in its resistance at forming an independent SOCOM type command) but winds of change have been blowing lately so lets hope for the best

 

[Immanuel]

There very well armed, trained and equipped SF units across the world. As far as I am concerned virtually every tech advance they have can be negated by a clever enemy. While I respect DEVGRU, SEALs, DELTA, SAS, Alfa Group, Sayareth etc and I am sure they can hold their own, they must be respected. But to put GROM, JTF, GIGN, GSG etc in the same league is way out of order.

Operating in a certain area doesn't make them awesome. Name some respectable missions worthy of a mention and then my respect would grow.

For the moment, Para SF remains the sole SF unit in the post cold war era which has the record of going several km into a nuclear armed enemy, kill dozens if not several hundreds of pigs, destroy several of their bunkers and return home safe. They not only routinely kill uniformed soldiers, enemy SF, ISI operators, handlers, they do so in broad day light.

God only knows what type of spicy dishes they are serving the Pakis since the last month or more.

 

[rkhanna]

@Immanuel

Keep in Mind that JSOC themselves put GROM and JTF-2 in the same league as themselves. i.e American Tier I
There are enough Articles on SOFREP and Books written by Tier I operators where they have the highest regard for GROM and JTF-2 - not to mention SASR

GROM and JTF-2 have spent over 15 years as part of US JSOC Task Forces (bare in mind NOT SOCOM) in Iraq , Afghanistan and even Africa. Those missions are classified , their participation in those task forces remain classfied but (yet) enough public information is available from Primary Sources (i.e. American Tier I operators who have worked alongside them not on one or two missions but extended deployments) and have written about them in News articles in SOFREP or in other Non-Fiction publications/ memoirs etc

GIGN/RAID and GSG9/SEK are equivalent to HRT and NSG and you cannot include them in the same sentence as DevGru and Delta (apples and oranges)

Lastly, The Capability and Role of our SOF units will continue to be pointless as long as the Conventional Military Brass continue to treat them as a step child.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG ..............................

 

[abingdonboy]

How many times have Indian SF laser designated a target inside Pakistan and IAF destroyed It?
The answer is that IAF will not cross IB / LC and there will be no laser designation. Where is the environment ? Leave aside the latest.

How many times has own SF operated from a ship / Naval platform to be inserted into another third world country except neighbourhood ?

India has no such policy and requirement. Only our neighbourhood so far. Our SF in Maldives, Sri Lanka or Myanmar have been successful.

Where is the requirement to have SF comparable to European SFs when you have no comparable tasks for them ?

Preparedness is alright but preparedness for a task which will never be there !!

You don’t become a global power without having that kind of capability and India keeps telling people it is a global power with superpower aspirations.

As usual politicians are full of sh!t and only interested in the rhetoric

 

[Gessler]

There very well armed, trained and equipped SF units across the world. As far as I am concerned virtually every tech advance they have can be negated by a clever enemy. While I respect DEVGRU, SEALs, DELTA, SAS, Alfa Group, Sayareth etc and I am sure they can hold their own, they must be respected. But to put GROM, JTF, GIGN, GSG etc in the same league is way out of order.

Operating in a certain area doesn't make them awesome. Name some respectable missions worthy of a mention and then my respect would grow.

For the moment, Para SF remains the sole SF unit in the post cold war era which has the record of going several km into a nuclear armed enemy, kill dozens if not several hundreds of pigs, destroy several of their bunkers and return home safe. They not only routinely kill uniformed soldiers, enemy SF, ISI operators, handlers, they do so in broad day light.

God only knows what type of spicy dishes they are serving the Pakis since the last month or more.

What @rkhanna said.

30charsrule

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG Sherpa ....................

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

#Equipment_Update New Bulgarian Arsenal M5F41 spotted with the #CRPF QAT #Commandos .

M5F41 is modernized version of M1F41 rifle with better pistol grip , rails on dust cover and Tri Rail lower handguard .
More details here : http://www.arsenal-bg.com/c/556x45-762x39-mm-assault-rifles-barrel-length-415-mm-44/556-x45-mm-and-762x39-mm-ar-m5f41-269…

 

[Suryavanshi]

Any pics of Our SF using supressor.
I don't see many of them is there a reason other than cost.

 

[rkhanna]

Any pics of Our SF using supressor.
I don't see many of them is there a reason other than cost.

Suppressed MP9s Uzi and M4s are used only to take out sentries . So usually in a team only one or two operators will carry suppressors

Other than that there is no SOPs to use suppressors. It's not about cost

 

[Suryavanshi]

Suppressed MP9s Uzi and M4s are used only to take out sentries . So usually in a team only one or two operators will carry suppressors

Other than that there is no SOPs to use suppressors. It's not about cost

Not really much use for anti terrorist op but supressor can be much useful in anti naxal op. As well as drones with thermal imaging cameras and thermal imaging scopes.

For example.


Use camouflage like these

I think all anti Naxal op must be carried out at night as night time is when these naxal become handicap.
Thermal sight isn't cheap so they can't afford it either.

 

[ALBY]

Not really much use for anti terrorist op but supressor can be much useful in anti naxal op. As well as drones with thermal imaging cameras and thermal imaging scopes.

For example.


Use camouflage like these

I think all anti Naxal op must be carried out at night as night time is when these naxal become handicap.
Thermal sight isn't cheap so they can't afford it either.

You are mistaken. Supressors improves the ability to communicate between team members, also improves the stealth, reduces the muzzle flash etc.
Nowdays the whole US SF units are using the suppressors. We are yet to utilise them properly. Do a google check, you will get the picture clear.

 

[rkhanna]

You are mistaken. Supressors improves the ability to communicate between team members, also improves the stealth, reduces the muzzle flash etc.
Nowdays the whole US SF units are using the suppressors. We are yet to utilise them properly. Do a google check, you will get the picture clear.

Yes correct. Suppressors increase combat effeciency and overall unit cohesiveness

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Yes correct. Suppressors increase combat effeciency and overall unit cohesiveness

Suppressors also increase muzzle velocity and reduce recoil.
Contrary to popular belief.

 

[Bhadra]

IA is working on a concept / Jugad named Ghatak .
Selection of about 30 gladiators out of 700 -800 is both tedious and needs special interest.
Third part is institutionalisation of their training.

What do the Gurus say on the subject - my request is to pay some attention to the subject rather than just smile over it.

So what say you,

 

[rkhanna]

Suppressors also increase muzzle velocity and reduce recoil.
Contrary to popular belief.

That is correct. The USMC offical page carried a detailed combat review article on the effectiveness of suppressors on their long guys. Outside of SOCOM and MARSOC most marine MGTAF SOC units also carry full supressors in their units

IA is working on a concept / Jugad named Ghatak .
Selection of about 30 gladiators out of 700 -800 is both tedious and needs special interest.
Third part is institutionalisation of their training.

What do the Gurus say on the subject - my request is to pay some attention to the subject rather than just smile over it.

So what say you,

Are you talking about ghatak units ? What's a gladiator ?

 

[Bhadra]

That is correct. The USMC offical page carried a detailed combat review article on the effectiveness of suppressors on their long guys. Outside of SOCOM and MARSOC most marine MGTAF SOC units also carry full supressors in their units


Are you talking about ghatak units ? What's a gladiator ?

That is correct. The USMC offical page carried a detailed combat review article on the effectiveness of suppressors on their long guys. Outside of SOCOM and MARSOC most marine MGTAF SOC units also carry full supressors in their units


Are you talking about ghatak units ? What's a gladiator ?

Are you talking about ghatak units ? What's a gladiator ?[/QUOTE]

"Ghatak" are not units...
Gladiators are the the few chosen ones to lead the assault ....

 

[rkhanna]

Are you talking about ghatak units ? What's a gladiator ?

"Ghatak" are not units...
Gladiators are the the few chosen ones to lead the assault ....[/QUOTE]

A ghatak platoon while not permanent has rotating soldiers who display the greatest proficiency within the battalion and the commando school. They get separate kit and more specialized training within the battalion. The whole battalion does not rotate through these platoons and as such they are units. And the concept of ghataks is 2 decades old.

So am confused as to what you are referring to