Indian Special Forces (archived)

[MuzzleVelocity]

It’s like the Chinese who claim to be technologically advancing their military yet haven’t seen any major combat since the 70s. Shiny weapons and new clothes somehow makes a better soldier

I agree. We often forget that the Indian Special Forces are some of the most battle hardened units on planet Earth. Their gear will go up in time, but that experience gained will stick.

Edit: What's even crazier that Indian special units are straight up engaging another special operations unit in the SSG. (And kicking their ass when at it). Literally no other force has this kind of experience, other than when US operators engaged Russian special units in Syria for a little bit. (And even then the US teams absolutely wrecked the Russian teams , probably because how much more active they are in general)

 

[itsme]

I agree. We often forget that the Indian Special Forces are some of the most battle hardened units on planet Earth. Their gear will go up in time, but that experience gained will stick.

Edit: What's even crazier that Indian special units are straight up engaging another special operations unit in the SSG. (And kicking their ass when at it). Literally no other force has this kind of experience, other than when US operators engaged Russian special units in Syria for a little bit. (And even then the US teams absolutely wrecked the Russian teams , probably because how much more active they are in general)

Is there any material I can refer to regarding the US-Rus SF engagements in Syria?

 

[Gessler]

Funny half those units haven't seen a proper op in years. Don't think many have fired a weapon at a real target either. The list is a joke.

GROM was extremely active in Kosovo, Afghanistan & other deployments. Still operates in Afg.

Same goes for German units. GSG9 pioneered many of the HRT/Urban engagement techniques which wrote the book for such actions for all Police-action units in the world to follow. Together with GIGN. It's not for no reason that NSG places importance in cross-training with European units.

It is true that Indian SFs have seen a lot of action, in fact more action than most non-American units. But thinking that Europeans haven't seen any is just gross under-estimation.

The particular aspect where Indian SFs are lacking (in terms of equipment) is in their inability to adopt the prevalent best-practices as used by NATO units (which even Russians admit is the best stuff for the job, hence you see that GRU/SSO operators in Syria are basically looking exactly the same as Western SFs, save for AKs).

We shouldn't be lead to believe that I'm advocating that we blindly follow whatever the NATO units use - because reality is, we already are. In terms of protection & firepower, Indian SFs are already becoming more & more Westernized. But we're being way too slow and way too ad-hoc about it.

SF units in the West have more or less adopted a "Combatant Standard" which is common across all NATO SOF units (and trickling down to Police-action and even Coast Guard units as well). And save for the AKs, Russia has more or less adopted the same.

Typical SOF gear & loadout pioneered by American SFs:

7 SFG (Green Berets)

SFOD-Delta

DEVGRU

STS Combat controllers

One mustn't think all this is done to ape other 'cooler' units. Every piece of gear you see here, the position it's on the body, the type & model of it, everything is the result of decades of on-field combat experience translated into purpose-built equipment. Ofcourse there's always an element of personal taste, but in general.

What one or two military SOF units may have initially adopted and put through the paces, the rest of JSOC adopted in due time. Slowly, it trickled down to non-military units:

FBI HRT

USCG MSRT

And NATO units, owing to close training regimens with the US SOFs:

SAS

French Pathfinders

GROM

Again I reiterate, this isn't done to ape the Americans or look cool. Everything has a purpose, and by adopting we aren't aping anyone, but smartly skipping the learning curve by incorporating solutions for lessons already hard-learnt by someone else. The Russians figured out as much -

GRU/Alfa Group

FSB (interior ministry)

What's happening here is that what used to be the "American standard" for SOF units is becoming the "Global standard" for SOF units. Like it or not, Indian special forces WILL adopt the exact same standard sooner or later....I just wish it was sooner. There's no escaping it if we know what's good for us - we are already well on the way. But like I said, we're being way too slow and way too ad-hoc about it.

 

[Shivansh Atri]

GROM was extremely active in Kosovo, Afghanistan & other deployments. Still operates in Afg.

Same goes for German units. GSG9 pioneered many of the HRT/Urban engagement techniques which wrote the book for such actions for all Police-action units in the world to follow. Together with GIGN. It's not for no reason that NSG places importance in cross-training with European units.

It is true that Indian SFs have seen a lot of action, in fact more action than most non-American units. But thinking that Europeans haven't seen any is just gross under-estimation.

The particular aspect where Indian SFs are lacking (in terms of equipment) is in their inability to adopt the prevalent best-practices as used by NATO units (which even Russians admit is the best stuff for the job, hence you see that GRU/SSO operators in Syria are basically looking exactly the same as Western SFs, save for AKs).

We shouldn't be lead to believe that I'm advocating that we blindly follow whatever the NATO units use - because reality is, we already are. In terms of protection & firepower, Indian SFs are already becoming more & more Westernized. But we're being way too slow and way too ad-hoc about it.

SF units in the West have more or less adopted a "Combatant Standard" which is common across all NATO SOF units (and trickling down to Police-action and even Coast Guard units as well). And save for the AKs, Russia has more or less adopted the same.

Typical SOF gear & loadout pioneered by American SFs:

7 SFG (Green Berets)

SFOD-Delta

DEVGRU

STS Combat controllers

One mustn't think all this is done to ape other 'cooler' units. Every piece of gear you see here, the position it's on the body, the type & model of it, everything is the result of decades of on-field combat experience translated into purpose-built equipment. Ofcourse there's always an element of personal taste, but in general.

What one or two military SOF units may have initially adopted and put through the paces, the rest of JSOC adopted in due time. Slowly, it trickled down to non-military units:

FBI HRT

USCG MSRT

And NATO units, owing to close training regimens with the US SOFs:

SAS

View attachment 33841

French Pathfinders

View attachment 33842

GROM

View attachment 33843

Again I reiterate, this isn't done to ape the Americans or look cool. Everything has a purpose, and by adopting we aren't aping anyone, but smartly skipping the learning curve by incorporating solutions for lessons already hard-learnt by someone else. The Russians figured out as much -

GRU/Alfa Group

View attachment 33844

FSB (interior ministry)

What's happening here is that what used to be the "American standard" for SOF units is becoming the "Global standard" for SOF units. Like it or not, Indian special forces WILL adopt the exact same standard sooner or later....I just wish it was sooner. There's no escaping it if we know what's good for us - we are already well on the way. But like I said, we're being way too slow and way too ad-hoc about it.

My guess is that we will be getting this equipment very soon as now we are getting our own Special Operations Division modelled after JSOC scheduled to start operating in November. So expect some news about these very soon.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

SIG SG 551 SB & SIG SG 553 SB Visual Difference

 

[Bleh]

GROM was extremely active in Kosovo, Afghanistan & other deployments. Still operates in Afg.

Same goes for German units. GSG9 pioneered many of the HRT/Urban engagement techniques which wrote the book for such actions for all Police-action units in the world to follow. Together with GIGN. It's not for no reason that NSG places importance in cross-training with European units.

It is true that Indian SFs have seen a lot of action, in fact more action than most non-American units. But thinking that Europeans haven't seen any is just gross under-estimation.

The particular aspect where Indian SFs are lacking (in terms of equipment) is in their inability to adopt the prevalent best-practices as used by NATO units (which even Russians admit is the best stuff for the job, hence you see that GRU/SSO operators in Syria are basically looking exactly the same as Western SFs, save for AKs).

We shouldn't be lead to believe that I'm advocating that we blindly follow whatever the NATO units use - because reality is, we already are. In terms of protection & firepower, Indian SFs are already becoming more & more Westernized. But we're being way too slow and way too ad-hoc about it.

SF units in the West have more or less adopted a "Combatant Standard" which is common across all NATO SOF units (and trickling down to Police-action and even Coast Guard units as well). And save for the AKs, Russia has more or less adopted the same.

Typical SOF gear & loadout pioneered by American SFs:

7 SFG (Green Berets)

SFOD-Delta

DEVGRU

STS Combat controllers

One mustn't think all this is done to ape other 'cooler' units. Every piece of gear you see here, the position it's on the body, the type & model of it, everything is the result of decades of on-field combat experience translated into purpose-built equipment. Ofcourse there's always an element of personal taste, but in general.

What one or two military SOF units may have initially adopted and put through the paces, the rest of JSOC adopted in due time. Slowly, it trickled down to non-military units:

FBI HRT

USCG MSRT

And NATO units, owing to close training regimens with the US SOFs:

SAS

View attachment 33841

French Pathfinders

View attachment 33842

GROM

View attachment 33843

Again I reiterate, this isn't done to ape the Americans or look cool. Everything has a purpose, and by adopting we aren't aping anyone, but smartly skipping the learning curve by incorporating solutions for lessons already hard-learnt by someone else. The Russians figured out as much -

GRU/Alfa Group

View attachment 33844

FSB (interior ministry)

What's happening here is that what used to be the "American standard" for SOF units is becoming the "Global standard" for SOF units. Like it or not, Indian special forces WILL adopt the exact same standard sooner or later....I just wish it was sooner. There's no escaping it if we know what's good for us - we are already well on the way. But like I said, we're being way too slow and way too ad-hoc about it.

Sweet!!
But last i noticed, Kashmir/NE insurgencies are nearly crushed but more than 50% of Afghanistan is still under Taliban & actually rebel militias beat ISIS in the Middle-East, what remains are still at each other's throat in a neverending stalemate that no amount of expensive toys is being able break... neither Western nor Russian
Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan, Lybia, Syria had been disaster after disaster (one would think the NATO like getting bitch-slapped).

So the question is; is the cost-benefit ratio even worth it..? Do these bring enough bang for their buck?... Or do we simply go for ensuring good quality weapons, protection, basic coms/cams & then concencrate on training, practice, skill sharing etc.?

 

[Gessler]

Sweet!!
But last i noticed, Kashmir/NE insurgencies are nearly crushed but more than 50% of Afghanistan is still under Taliban & actually rebel militias beat ISIS in the Middle-East, what remains are still at each other's throat in a neverending stalemate that no amount of expensive toys is being able break... neither Western nor Russian
Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan, Lybia, Syria had been disaster after disaster (one would think the NATO like getting bitch-slapped).

So the question is; is the cost-benefit ratio even worth it..? Do these bring enough bang for their buck?... Or do we simply go for ensuring good quality weapons, protection, basic coms/cams & then concencrate on training, practice, skill sharing etc.?

Stuff like this will win you battles. It won't win you the war - not when there are other, deep-rooted geopolitical factors at play.

In a pitched battle, Western forces can easily crush Talibs. As they did when they brought down Talibunny government in Afg. But the strength of Taliban is not in how well they can fight in the field - it's in how unrelenting they can be with regard to replenishing their numbers and getting back into the fight.

In many battles, it won't be surprising to see Mujis losing 10-12 or even 20 men for every NATO soldier they manage to kill. But that's not what matters to them. Same goes for the rebels that fight IS or the Northern Alliance. They don't care how many men they lose - as long as they achieve their objectives.

As of upgrading our equipment, it's all about increasing the immediate tactical advantage our forces can enjoy on the field. So that we take out the threats with as minimal risk to the lives of our guys as possible.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Sweet!!
But last i noticed, Kashmir/NE insurgencies are nearly crushed but more than 50% of Afghanistan is still under Taliban & actually rebel militias beat ISIS in the Middle-East, what remains are still at each other's throat in a neverending stalemate that no amount of expensive toys is being able break... neither Western nor Russian
Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan, Lybia, Syria had been disaster after disaster (one would think the NATO like getting bitch-slapped).

So the question is; is the cost-benefit ratio even worth it..? Do these bring enough bang for their buck?... Or do we simply go for ensuring good quality weapons, protection, basic coms/cams & then concencrate on training, practice, skill sharing etc.?

You always focus on creating mass dissent in an enemy's backyard and keeping them busy there. Then as per strategic situation, you either scale up or down these movements.

If you have money and industrial size, you can keep a hot - cold approach till judgement day arrives.

As for the stalemate, it is a deliberate one. War ensures that the military industrial complex acts like a 'self licking ice cone' and both creates such problems and supplies the means to end it. That's cheaper than a world war and less risky to spiral out of control.

This will continue till we have maturity on a global level as a species. Nobody wants to talk about it but we are reaching the levels of a world government via UNSC and regional bodies!

 

[Bleh]

In a pitched battle, Western forces can easily crush Talibs. As they did when they brought down Talibunny government in Afg...

...In many battles, it won't be surprising to see Mujis losing 10-12 or even 20 men for every NATO soldier they manage to kill. But that's not what matters to them. Same goes for the rebels that fight IS or the Northern Alliance. They don't care how many men they lose - as long as they achieve their objectives.

As of upgrading our equipment, it's all about increasing the immediate tactical advantage our forces can enjoy on the field. So that we take out the threats with as minimal risk to the lives of our guys as possible.

You always focus on creating mass dissent in an enemy's backyard and keeping them busy there. Then as per strategic situation, you either scale up or down these movements.

If you have money and industrial size, you can keep a hot - cold approach till judgement day arrives.

As for the stalemate, it is a deliberate one. War ensures that the military industrial complex acts like a 'self licking ice cone' and both creates such problems and supplies the means to end it. That's cheaper than a world war and less risky to spiral out of control.

This will continue till we have maturity on a global level as a species. Nobody wants to talk about it but we are reaching the levels of a world government via UNSC and regional bodies!

I'm feeling you both missed my point. NATO can out-kill militia & ragtags by 10:1... but can they do the same to well trained, equipped & hardened Indian SF whose equipment are apparently decades behind (after they get decent quality basic gears like new helmets & plate carriers, proper guns & sights, modern cams & coms etc.)?
I bet they can't even do 1.2:1, our SF's death numbers are impressively low compared to how much action they see.

Bang for the buck, is almost always the same graph...

Where do we draw the line? How much "accessories" is enough, to start concentrating on the rest?

 

[Gessler]

You missed my point. NATO can out-kill militia & ragtags by 10:1... but can they do the same to well trained, equipped & hardened Indian SF whose equipment are apparently decades behind (after they get decent quality basic gears like new helmets & plate carriers, proper guns & sights, modern cams & coms etc.)?
I bet they can't even do 1.2:1, our SF's death numbers are impressively low compared to how much action they see.

Bang for the buck, is almost always the same graph... Where do we draw the line?
View attachment 33851

Arre bhai...compare the Indian SF of today with the same 10 years ago. We are already well on the way to mimicking the West. Why do you think our SFs are all buying high-cut helmets? New plate carriers all around? Quarter-zip shirts? More Western firearms? (SCAR etc.)

Obviously they believe there is merit in these systems. And that belief is backed by experiences in the field.

Anyone who claims to know exactly how much action SFs see or how many causalities they see are either lying, don't know what they're talking about, or are privy to information the public domain doesn't know about.

That said - the bang vs buck approach makes sense for buying equipment for large infantry forces. That's why we're content with domestically-made ACH and BPJ for the infantry.

But for top-tier SF there should be only one philosophy - Maximum bang, maximum buck. We are a $3 trillion economy with a Top 5 defence budget. Not some African country (come to think of it, even Nigeria has fully adopted the NATO combatant standard for their SFs).

There should never be a position where we send SFs into field with a single-tube NVG (like we do now), let someone get the drop on them owing to the extremely poor FOV of those NODs, and then say it was bang for buck. No expense should be spared - as long as the equipment is within the comfort zone of the wearer (most important factor).

And I say this again - we WILL go on to mimic the NATO standard for SFs. It's frankly an INEVITABILITY. Like I said, max bang, max buck.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I'm feeling you both missed my point. NATO can out-kill militia & ragtags by 10:1... but can they do the same to well trained, equipped & hardened Indian SF whose equipment are apparently decades behind (after they get decent quality basic gears like new helmets & plate carriers, proper guns & sights, modern cams & coms etc.)?
I bet they can't even do 1.2:1, our SF's death numbers are impressively low compared to how much action they see.

Bang for the buck, is almost always the same graph...
View attachment 33851
Where do we draw the line? How much "accessories" is enough, to start concentrating on the rest?

An AK 47 can be used by a tribal as spray and pray or by a highly trained operative to fire in concentrated bursts for maximum effect!

 

[Bhadra]

But the question of NSG remaining in their cocoons in cosy quarters of Metros unactioned, unexposed and protected has not been answered by anyone. Or for that matter IAF GARUD are quite old by now. How many of those been to the forests of Afrooda / Lolab. Why are they not being employed in Kanker or Bastar to begin with ?

When one talks of equipment and arms etc what one has to compare with is what one is expected to face and encounter. Indian SF so far are not expected to take on US or European SF. I do not deny that SSG would be as well equipped but most of the time it is a Jihadi, an ULFA, a Naga or Manipuri, Burmese terrorist / insurgents - Naga being the best trained and best equipped. Are our SF suitably kitted for that, is the question. So far they have given an excellent account of themselves. That is not to say they do not need upgrades.

And then numbers do matter in that the resources get divided. Every agency in India want to have their own SF their own gear, own training and own city to live in without any work. Good equipment is only required for good photo shoots.

Maximum Buck does not always give Maximum Bang.

 

[Bhadra]

How many times have Indian SF laser designated a target inside Pakistan and IAF destroyed It?
The answer is that IAF will not cross IB / LC and there will be no laser designation. Where is the environment ? Leave aside the latest.

How many times has own SF operated from a ship / Naval platform to be inserted into another third world country except neighbourhood ?

India has no such policy and requirement. Only our neighbourhood so far. Our SF in Maldives, Sri Lanka or Myanmar have been successful.

Where is the requirement to have SF comparable to European SFs when you have no comparable tasks for them ?

Preparedness is alright but preparedness for a task which will never be there !!

 

[Gessler]

But the question of NSG remaining in their cocoons in cosy quarters of Metros unactioned, unexposed and protected has not been answered by anyone.

Where do you want to send them?

When one talks of equipment and arms etc what one has to compare with is what one is expected to face and encounter.

When DEVGRU units equip themselves with panoramic quad-tube NODs, it's not because they expect to face Talibans equipped with similar gear. It's because the said equipment grants them a better chance of survival - owing to the fact that it offers much better situational awareness than a dual-tube or single-tube NOD.

The spending is obviously within the realistic confines of what can be afforded.

Indian SF so far are not expected to take on US or European SF.

It is never the typical mission of an SF unit to take on another SF unit.

I do not deny that SSG would be as well equipped but most of the time it is a Jihadi, an ULFA, a Naga or Manipuri, Burmese terrorist / insurgents - Naga being the best trained and best equipped. Are our SF suitably kitted for that, is the question.

Pretty sure we don't need a Tavor with a MARS optic to kill Naga & Manipuri militants or jihadists. Neither do US SOF need $3,000-HK416s with a dozen attachments to kill Taliban fighters.

Yet, we have them. Wonder why.

Aren't you missing something here?

Maximum Buck does not always give Maximum Bang.

That makes no sense.

What does make sense is "maximum buck does not always give maximum value". But that too is irrelevant...considering value is not the factor to be pursued for SF units.

We spend hundreds of Billions (with a B) on conventional military forces and nuclear arsenals. And then spend few hundreds of Millions (with an M) on a handful of Special operators who's job it is to ensure those forces never have to be used.

Not everyone understands that line of thinking. But not everyone needs to - only the ones who are the decision-makers. And yes, they do understand. Which is why our SF keep getting closer and closer in terms of equipment to their counterpart Western units.

 

[Gessler]

Bottomline is...within the next 10 years or so, Indian SFs will begin to tote the exact same kind of equipment and gear Western SOFs do.

Whatever we argue about whether we need to or not, it's inevitable.

Same way how the IAF evolved their strategies and technical requirements after Western standards. We weren't ready to accept MTA project without FADEC engines. The IAF of the 1990s would have thought it unnecessary. The Russians still do.

Our thinking is evolving. We are coming out of a Soviet dogma of 'cheap & best' and are ready to spend that extra buck to get a truly top of the line piece of equipment like the Rafale.

Lot of people don't like it, lot of people don't understand it. But that's what's gonna happen.

 

[Bhadra]

NSG - with so many things going on in the country, Do not you want them to get some training / operational exposure.

Bang and Buck - one can not have $3000 equipment because it is $3000. It must have its utility somewhere ? We in India have not shifted so far to the doctrine of fighting Urban Naxalites though we need to be prepared for it. The country could give the SF the best, but it has to be at the cost of something. That something might not be as insignificant but as good as SF tasks.

Closer and closer - touch them. I will also be happy along with you. But If I give you NVD of 1000m range then I should also provide you a weapon of 1000m engagement capability - capability to recover that to obtain whatever you can like intelligence etc. It is system. everything is connected and task oriented.

Everyone would like their SF to be well equipped. But from one, you expand to three, and from three to ten and the country has 50 units claiming to be SF, then there is problem.

If country has resources it is not for squandering.

 

[Gessler]

NSG - with so many things going on in the country, Do not you want them to get some training / operational exposure.

NSG trains very well. There are routine cross-training regimens as well where NSG operators train alongside such units as the GIGN and even military types like the Green Berets.

In it's current mandate (which is one of internal security under the MHA), whenever there is a terrorist incident in the country and the local Police special units (SWAT/QRT) are unable to handle the situation, it's the NSG which is on call.

But ideally, each Metropolitan city (and state on top of it) should have its own highly trained SWAT unit. As whenever a terrorist incident occurs, it is always the Police which are first responders. NSG would take too long to get there - and time is of the essence.

When terrorists struck Gurdaspur, it was the Punjab Police's SWAT unit that dispatched them.

It's the same in developed countries as well. In the US, every Metro has a local SWAT unit. But that doesn't mean the Federal authorities (equivalent to our Central forces) don't have their own special units. The FBI's HRT unit is one such force.

Yes, I concur with the notion that NSG should be allowed to operate in J&K - however, our military special forces need to have an active hotspot where they can hone their skills, get experience under fire and stay sharp as well. So they are preventing the NSG from actively deploying to any incident in Kashmir.

Bang and Buck - one can not have $3000 equipment because it is $3000. It must have its utility somewhere ?

Who says it doesn't?

Closer and closer - touch them. I will also be happy along with you. But If I give you NVD of 1000m range then I should also provide you a weapon of 1000m engagement capability - capability to recover that to obtain whatever you can like intelligence etc. It is system. everything is connected and task oriented.

What you're implying has merit - but not in this context. The context I'm talking about is strictly in terms of personal equipment. And that standard is something we will certainly reach.

Everyone would like their SF to be well equipped. But from one, you expand to three, and from three to ten and the country has 50 units claiming to be SF, then there is problem.

There is no problem - as long as one manages to dissect what is the stated role and where it applies.

That said, we cannot wait for a war to start and a serious requirement to be felt before we begin a process to fill that requirement. Instead, we must learn to anticipate those requirements. And prepare for them accordingly.

The same philosophy applies whether one is talking about military units intended for external action or law enforcement units intended for an internal security role. For example, imagine how many lives could have been saved had the Mumbai Police took a leaf out of the book of Police Departments in the West and did not wait for something like 26/11 to happen before taking the decision to form a Quick-Reaction SWAT unit under the Police Dept which can rapidly respond to incidents at a 20 minute notice....instead of sitting there waiting 8 hours for NSG to arrive from Palam.

I'm sure that before 26/11, many would have asked...where is the bang for buck in maintaining a SWAT unit?

If country has resources it is not for squandering.

It is also important to know the difference between spending & squandering. Being unable to differentiate between those two will lead to much regret in future.

 

[Bhadra]

NSG trains very well. There are routine cross-training regimens as well where NSG operators train alongside such units as the GIGN and even military types like the Green Berets.

In it's current mandate (which is one of internal security under the MHA), whenever there is a terrorist incident in the country and the local Police special units (SWAT/QRT) are unable to handle the situation, it's the NSG which is on call.

But ideally, each Metropolitan city (and state on top of it) should have its own highly trained SWAT unit. As whenever a terrorist incident occurs, it is always the Police which are first responders. NSG would take too long to get there - and time is of the essence.

When terrorists struck Gurdaspur, it was the Punjab Police's SWAT unit that dispatched them.

It's the same in developed countries as well. In the US, every Metro has a local SWAT unit. But that doesn't mean the Federal authorities (equivalent to our Central forces) don't have their own special units. The FBI's HRT unit is one such force.

Yes, I concur with the notion that NSG should be allowed to operate in J&K - however, our military special forces need to have an active hotspot where they can hone their skills, get experience under fire and stay sharp as well. So they are preventing the NSG from actively deploying to any incident in Kashmir.



Who says it doesn't?



What you're implying has merit - but not in this context. The context I'm talking about is strictly in terms of personal equipment. And that standard is something we will certainly reach.



There is no problem - as long as one manages to dissect what is the stated role and where it applies.

That said, we cannot wait for a war to start and a serious requirement to be felt before we begin a process to fill that requirement. Instead, we must learn to anticipate those requirements. And prepare for them accordingly.

The same philosophy applies whether one is talking about military units intended for external action or law enforcement units intended for an internal security role. For example, imagine how many lives could have been saved had the Mumbai Police took a leaf out of the book of Police Departments in the West and did not wait for something like 26/11 to happen before taking the decision to form a Quick-Reaction SWAT unit under the Police Dept which can rapidly respond to incidents at a 20 minute notice....instead of sitting there waiting 8 hours for NSG to arrive from Palam.

I'm sure that before 26/11, many would have asked...where is the bang for buck in maintaining a SWAT unit?



It is also important to know the difference between spending & squandering. Being unable to differentiate between those two will lead to much regret in future.

I agree with the content of your entire post. The very meaning and concept of policing needs to change.

Start looking inwards for Equipment ... our industry is capable of doing it provided there is economics in it. The problem is there is no one to tell them what they want and how much, in what time frame etc. They can also import the same raw materials which Europeans do and they can make things to happen,

 

[Gessler]

I agree with the content of your entire post. The very meaning and concept of policing needs to change.

Start looking inwards for Equipment ... our industry is capable of doing it provided there is economics in it. The problem is there is no one to tell them what they want and how much, in what time frame etc. They can also import the same raw materials which Europeans do and they can make things to happen,

In the US, typically such niche companies which cater to special armed forces equipment are usually founded & run by ex-Special Forces personnel.

In India, typically, retired military personnel (Armymen) take up consultation roles with defence companies, or establish a services-based company if they have some capital. Retired IAF/IN pilots...typically go into civil airlines.

I'm pretty sure in coming years, more and more ex-SF personnel will establish companies that cater to these needs - and once non-military units also start seeing the merit in this equipment, they will also buy them, increasing the potential customer base for such products.

Something similar happened with the FAB Defense aftermarket kits sold for upgrading AKs (railed handguards, dust covers, adjustable stocks etc.). Initially, it was Rashtriya Rifles and Para (SF) units that adopted them. But then every SF, Ghatak teams, even some regulars, CAPFs, Police SWAT units, everyone adopted it. FAB (an Israeli company) must have smiled all the way to the bank.

 

[uoftotaku]

In the US, typically such niche companies which cater to special armed forces equipment are usually founded & run by ex-Special Forces personnel.

In India, typically, retired military personnel (Armymen) take up consultation roles with defence companies, or establish a services-based company if they have some capital. Retired IAF/IN pilots...typically go into civil airlines.

I'm pretty sure in coming years, more and more ex-SF personnel will establish companies that cater to these needs - and once non-military units also start seeing the merit in this equipment, they will also buy them, increasing the potential customer base for such products.

Something similar happened with the FAB Defense aftermarket kits sold for upgrading AKs (railed handguards, dust covers, adjustable stocks etc.). Initially, it was Rashtriya Rifles and Para (SF) units that adopted them. But then every SF, Ghatak teams, even some regulars, CAPFs, Police SWAT units, everyone adopted it. FAB (an Israeli company) must have smiled all the way to the bank.

One can hope that this type of industry can be supported by the Govt and Forces. In the US there is a secondary civilian market which helps keeps the companies independent of Govt orders. Since India has no such market, the Govt will really have to ensure continuous support which is not always possible unless as you say even CAPF & State Police entities start getting in.

Also remember that SOCOM has a HUGEEE budget compared to our SF. Heck in some years i'm quite sure SOCOM itself has had a bigger budget than the whole iA. So level of equipment and support will never be the same. And honestly doesn't have to be. The mission profiles our boys conduct are not easily comparable with what SOCOM undertakes nor the methodology with which each outfit operates. So its not necessarily the case that the type of equipment SOCOM buys would be suitable or even required by our SF.