Indian Special Forces (archived)

[abingdonboy]

Other than tactical built in knee pad/elbow pad support, FAST/EXFIL Helmets (NSG has rail mounted VIPER helmets) and 4 tube NVG, NSG has all necessary equipment. 20 years is too much. 5 at most, especially with recent gear to Ghataks, Para SF and MARCOS.

I said NSG is about 5-7 years behind their counterparts in the West (GIGN, GIG9, FBI HRT etc) which is about what you have supported, the kit you mention is all about 5-7 years old.

The Mil SF (PARA (SF), Garuds, MARCOs) are at best 15-20 years behind their Western coutnerparts (SEALs, Green Berets, SAS, KSK etc).

These are some NATO SFs during the 2003 invasion of Iraq and 2001 invasion of Afghanistan (17 years ago) , no Indian Mil SF has even reached this level yet- think about that:

 

[vampyrbladez]

I said NSG is about 5-7 years behind their counterparts in the West (GIGN, GIG9, FBI HRT etc) which is about what you have supported, the kit you mention is all about 5-7 years old.

The Mil SF (PARA (SF), Garuds, MARCOs) are at best 15-20 years behind their Western coutnerparts (SEALs, Green Berets, SAS, KSK etc).

These are some NATO SFs during the 2003 invasion of Iraq and 2001 invasion of Afghanistan (17 years ago) , no Indian Mil SF has even reached this level yet- think about that:

I really don't see any resemblance unless you are talking about lack of uniformity. As @Unknowncommando 2 pics show, a progressive filtering of upgrades is taking place.

 

[abingdonboy]

I really don't see any resemblance unless you are talking about lack of uniformity. As @Unknowncommando 2 pics show, a progressive filtering of upgrades is taking place.

Uniformity is certainly a issue, for every "upgrade" you see once in posing pics the operational units in the real world have had the same gear for over a decade now entirely unchanged.

There doesn't seem to be any filtering down to the frontline SF teams, the only upgrade they've had in a decade is the induction of the ACH which again is 20+ year old equipment that Western units have already ditched.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Uniformity is certainly a issue, for every "upgrade" you see once in posing pics the operational units in the real world have had the same gear for over a decade now entirely unchanged.

There doesn't seem to be any filtering down to the frontline SF teams, the only upgrade they've had in a decade is the induction of the ACH which again is 20+ year old equipment that Western units have already ditched.

There are new MOLE carriers, Drones, Ballistic Shields III+, light weight BPJ, heavy BPJ, EXFIL helmets, VIPER ACH, High cut helmets, etc.

Indian SF has undergone a massive change in equipment last 2 years alone. Every new pic from encounters show equipment upgrades at a rapid pace. Add to the fact that equipping a large army takes some time and most western nations have armies smaller than state paramilitary units and PACs.

 

[Haldiram]

They still massively lag behind their western counterparts. I’d say NSG is 5-7 years behind and the military SFs of India are easily 15-20 years behind.

What list of equipment do you think our SF need to bring them on par?

 

[vampyrbladez]

GIGN

GSG 9

DEVGRU

KSK

NSG

MARCOS

GHATAK

PARA SF

 

[abingdonboy]

Indian SF has undergone a massive change in equipment last 2 years alone. Every new pic from encounters show equipment upgrades at a rapid pace.

Yeah not really,

Pic from 2009 or 2018?

All from 2018, apart from the ballisitc sheild and ACH (not cutting edge equipment really) nothing has really changed.

Add to the fact that equipping a large army takes some time and most western nations have armies smaller than state paramilitary units and PACs.

We are talking just about SFs here, no excuse for why they are so outdated to this day.



Iraqi SF:

Tunisan SF:

Nigerian SF:

These were the first pics I could find of nations you woudl consider far inferior to India (it's purely depressing if you start comparing to Western nations),


Even Somlia's (a failed state) Special Forces have some better equipment than Indian SF:

I legitimately think India has some of the worst equipped (not trained) Special Forces on the planet, I'd LOVE to be wrong and LOVE to be corrected but these are the facts in front of me

 

[abingdonboy]

What list of equipment do you think our SF need to bring them on par?

Head to toe upgrade; Helmets, communication equipment, plate carriers, uniforms, small arms, night vision, even their foot wear.

Of course, no such comprehensive plan will be launched, it will all be piecemeal if and when they get around to it, until then "chalta hai".


This:

compared to:

^ I've deliberately picked images of operators in the feild, not posing for cameras.

 

[abingdonboy]

GIGN

GSG 9

DEVGRU

KSK

NSG

View attachment 29266

MARCOS

View attachment 29267

GHATAK

View attachment 29268

PARA SF

View attachment 29269

You have eyes right bro? In what world are the Indian units you have posted even remotely on par with the Western units?


NSG is closest but even they are no match.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Yeah not really,

Pic from 2009 or 2018?

All from 2018, apart from the ballisitc sheild and ACH (not cutting edge equipment really) nothing has really changed.

We are talking just about SFs here, no excuse for why they are so outdated to this day.



Iraqi SF:




Tunisan SF:





Nigerian SF:



These were the first pics I could find of nations you woudl consider far inferior to India (it's purely depressing if you start comparing to Western nations),


Even Somlia's (a failed state) Special Forces have some better equipment than Indian SF:





I legitimately think India has some of the worst equipped (not trained) Special Forces on the planet, I'd LOVE to be wrong and LOVE to be corrected but these are the facts in front of me

So you are comparing a regular field kit to tacticool kits of SF? How bout citing the side by side SF comparison I did?

BTW this is US SOCOM in the field.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Head to toe upgrade; Helmets, communication equipment, plate carriers, uniforms, small arms, night vision, even their foot wear.

Of course, no such comprehensive plan will be launched, it will all be piecemeal if and when they get around to it, until then "chalta hai".


This:

compared to:

View attachment 29270




^ I've deliberately picked images of operators in the feild, not posing for cameras.

Those pics you are cherry picking are years old. Why not try comparing the newer pics I posted? What's the matter?

 

[vampyrbladez]

You have eyes right bro? In what world are the Indian units you have posted even remotely on par with the Western units?


NSG is closest but even they are no match.

Check the helmets, BPJ, gun.

Other than the last pic which I deliberately put up to show new plate holders, Indian SF match up pretty well up there. Infact some of the foreign SF have no knee pads or elbow pads. Difference is HD pics v/s normal quality pics.

Here's a comparison. Which two catch your eye the most?

 

[abingdonboy]

Those pics you are cherry picking are years old. Why not try comparing the newer pics I posted? What's the matter?

"Cherry picking"? Please provide me a SINGLE picture of an Indian SF unit (in the feild or in training) that has them anywhere near the level of a Western SF from even 2008 (10 years ago).


This is the "best" PARA (SF) could do a few weeks ago:

The first pics of PARA (SF) I came across in th Counter Terror ops thread:

How am I cherry picking? I'm presenting the reality, it's hard to swallow sure but it is the truth, don't live in denial.


US SF in the feild (Syria) 2016/17:

Russian SF in Syria:

SAS In Syria:

French SF in Mali:

 

[vampyrbladez]

Some upgrades are definitely filtering in. Check out the high cuts.

 

[vampyrbladez]

"Cherry picking"? Please provide me a SINGLE picture of an Indian SF unit (in the feild or in training) that has them anywhere near the level of a Western SF from even 2008 (10 years ago).


This is the "best" PARA (SF) could do a few weeks ago:

The first pics of PARA (SF) I came across in th Counter Terror ops thread:

How am I cherry picking? I'm presenting the reality, it's hard to swallow sure but it is the truth, don't live in denial.


US SF in the feild (Syria) 2016/17:

Russian SF in Syria:






SAS In Syria:






French SF in Mali:

Your main obsession seems to be EXFIL, built in kneepads and camo. Agreed camo uniformity is non existent in forward areas but gear is definitely improving.

 

[abingdonboy]

Some upgrades are definitely filtering in. Check out the high cuts.

Once again, you are proving my point, PARA (SF) had this exact equipment 10 years ago (excluding the helmets but high cuts with no rails, NVG mounts and without the radio headsets that make them worthwhile is nothing to be excited about).



Still no proper plate carriers.

 

[abingdonboy]

Your main obsession seems to be EXFIL, built in kneepads and camo. Agreed camo uniformity is non existent in forward areas but gear is definitely improving.

No, it is EVERYTHING- NODs, PCs, Helmets, Comns etc

Then we can talk about the small things like integrated knee/elbow and camo.

In terms of what an Indian SF has today, it is about what a Western SF unit had in the mid to late 90s.

 

[abingdonboy]

Some upgrades are definitely filtering in. Check out the high cuts.

Watch from 22:00:



Vid is from 2011^


NOTHING has changed in over 7 years.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Once again, you are proving my point, PARA (SF) had this exact equipment 10 years ago (excluding the helmets but high cuts with no rails, NVG mounts and without the radio headsets that make them worthwhile is nothing to be excited about).



Still no proper plate carriers.

The rails can be easily added in as even VBSS teams have VIPER helmets now.

Even NSG has more helmets to choose from.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Watch from 22:00:



Vid is from 2011^


NOTHING has changed in over 7 years.

11 - 18 is a lifetime. To see a PASGT back then fresh off 26/11 was rare.