Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Vinod DX9]

Why would the GoI deploy Garuds for such oversees missions when it is easily the least experienced and smallest of all the Indian Special forces? PARA (SF) would be the more obvious choice surely?

Experience with "immunity"
When a special force is formed it takes some time to be habituated with advisory ambience . Then they need experience, so that they can perform perfectly, better in future. Such missions not only make them understand what to do, but more importantly WHAT NOT TO DO. Directly involving them in COIN in own country can bring not so satisfied results. Besides, some mistakes which can be grave can be raised on humanitarian grounds too. But, under UN cap, they get, in max cases, immunity and international support, even if it costs some lives of local. Along with security, experience also they gather. So when they returns to India, Garuds are full battle ready. Now they can impliment without repeating previous mistakes.
And, PARAs are doing that job wonderfully for decades. Rather indulging a new unexperienced force isn't a good idea. Remember, PARAs too got huge experience from African missions against rebels, islamic radicals. So when they see similar tactics are being copied by Paki terrorists, they know how to handle them.

 

[Bornubus]

Special one which saw a LoC raid

@hammer head
@reddevil9
@Project Dharma
@ghost

 

[rkhanna]

Any update on how the nsg is standing in Jordan? Great pics

Found it.

The 9th Annual Warrior Competition have concluded, this event had 31 teams representing 17 nations from around the globe.

First place: China – Sky Sword Unit of the PAP

Second place: Lebanon – Black Panthers -Team (2)

Third place: China – Falcon Commando Unit of the PAP

 

[Immanuel]

Why would the GoI deploy Garuds for such oversees missions when it is easily the least experienced and smallest of all the Indian Special forces? PARA (SF) would be the more obvious choice surely?

Because Para Sf is busy in J&K and Para has more experience, Garuds were deployed exactly to be able to get them operational experience, moreso, the overarching strategy in that anti terror campaign was to use air assets (attack helos and drones) some in coop raids with their Tier-1 counterparts. During the early phase Garuds and local nation commandos lived deep in the bush setting up make shift camps and then going in the for the hunt. It was a real tough stint that got this force hardened. A few flights were rotated over a period of 18 months

 

[captscooby81]

So our big brother from north has finished in the top three places taking two places ...Whats the comparison between the PLA SF Vs our SFs all divisions put together ..We are fighting insurgency inside our territory and also participated in SL and African nations .. Any idea where all chinese SFs had got their hands dirty in the last two decades ????

Found it.

The 9th Annual Warrior Competition have concluded, this event had 31 teams representing 17 nations from around the globe.

First place: China – Sky Sword Unit of the PAP

Second place: Lebanon – Black Panthers -Team (2)

Third place: China – Falcon Commando Unit of the PAP

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Any idea where all chinese SFs had got their hands dirty in the last two decades ????

I'm guessing they have experience butchering Buddhist Monks, Pro-Democracy Activists, Commie despots who don't tow the party line and/or any other dirty deed they commit in accordance with President Eleven's whims.
Plus regular exercises with the likes of SSG etc.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I never said anything about Blue beret ops by Garuds. The ops I speak of are nothing to do with UN, they are covert ops conducted on request of assistance from a large ally in Africa, the menace they faced threatened the entire nation, Garuds along with local SF units were instrumental in dishing out crushing blows to this very popular terror outfit. Garuds during these extended ops over a period of 18 months raked up an impressive kill list of over 200 hardcore bastards, this is also the same country where they also worked together with another Tier-1 counterpart. This was also the first time Garuds worked extensively as combat controllers as well.

Socom delays are mainly due to the lessons learned by Marcos and Garuds over the last few years. While working with a few Tier-1 counterparts from a couple of nations, our boys were able to discover a lot of inherent weaknesses in the SOPs of many such units. These same SOPs often resulted in highly skilled and trained operators being KIA often by ragtag militia. These same SOP often result in elite Paras making the ultimate sacrifice. Hence, the discussion had to be renewed and relooked, hard questions have some up and these things are being discussed extensively

I cannot divulge any info on Marcos, their work has been even more covert but you can trust me when I say, they have been very active and they are true badasses.

I would like to know more about the African ops.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Calm down. Force one was majorly trained modeled on the NSG.

Force1 should have done what Delhi SWAT and Bangalore Garudas did..ie tie up with IA for training.

They hired Israeli who talked bullshit about Mumbai Police and regarding skill..Delhi SWAT are no less than them in that.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Found it.

The 9th Annual Warrior Competition have concluded, this event had 31 teams representing 17 nations from around the globe.

First place: China – Sky Sword Unit of the PAP

Second place: Lebanon – Black Panthers -Team (2)

Third place: China – Falcon Commando Unit of the PAP

We really need to pull up our socks.

Every event like this i see Chinese in top 3 and we are off the merit list.Be it tanks competition,sniper or SF.

And people say Chinese are not well trained .I think they surely have qualitative and quantitative edge over us.

 

[abingdonboy]

So our big brother from north has finished in the top three places taking two places ...Whats the comparison between the PLA SF Vs our SFs all divisions put together ..We are fighting insurgency inside our territory and also participated in SL and African nations .. Any idea where all chinese SFs had got their hands dirty in the last two decades ????

We really need to pull up our socks.

Every event like this i see Chinese in top 3 and we are off the merit list.Be it tanks competition,sniper or SF.

And people say Chinese are not well trained .I think they surely have qualitative and quantitative edge over us.

This is the thing about communists, they are all about propoganda and appearance, these teams probably spend years and years training for this one event whilt the NSG team spent a few months/weeks as they had operational requirements to take care of, that's the difference between credible units and these sort of show boaters.

It's the same reason the Chinese (and USSR before) do so well at the Olympics, they have dedicated olympics farms that they send little children to to train there entire lives for such occasions.

Even the US SF ODA team didn't make the list of winners, does that mean they are less capable than a Chinese or Lebanon SF unit? Come on!

In a real world mission I would still take the NSG over any other team in this competition, the Chinese are always paper tigers.

 

[rkhanna]

Even the US SF ODA team didn't make the list of winners, does that mean they are less capable than a Chinese or Lebanon SF unit? Come on!

Agree with everything you said. Chinese sof are training more for controlled environments than combat.

But the Americans did not send any sof unit and haven't for a long time . Gsg9 took part in year 3 and won. Force recon took part in the first year and won.

This year ( like the last few) America sent a county sheriff's swat team

 

[abingdonboy]

Agree with everything you said. Chinese sof are training more for controlled environments than combat.

But the Americans did not send any sof unit and haven't for a long time . Gsg9 took part in year 3 and won. Force recon took part in the first year and won.

This year ( like the last few) America sent a county sheriff's swat team

A US army SF ODA were there:

 

[WARREN SS]

Agree with everything you said. Chinese sof are training more for controlled environments than combat.

But the Americans did not send any sof unit and haven't for a long time . Gsg9 took part in year 3 and won. Force recon took part in the first year and won.

This year ( like the last few) America sent a county sheriff's swat team

Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha (SFOD-A) "A Detachment" "A Team" The primary operational element of a Special Forces company, an Special Forces Operational Detachment A, also known as an "A Detachment" or "A-Team," consists of 12 Special Forces Soldiers: 2 officers, and 10 sergeants.

 

[captscooby81]

Well if we look at those two chinese units there are not from PLA ..These are from PAP basically the police force units so that is one reason NSG was sent as it looks more like a competition between special units of the police forces who deal with internal issues then external threats ... Still the chinese are really making progress every where the Super tank challenge they are taking the trophy for last three years ..May be they are bringing a modified tank just for these challenges and we sending our regular ones .Still we are not able to make it in to top 5 forget top 3 ...

This is the thing about communists, they are all about propoganda and appearance, these teams probably spend years and years training for this one event whilt the NSG team spent a few months/weeks as they had operational requirements to take care of, that's the difference between credible units and these sort of show boaters.

It's the same reason the Chinese (and USSR before) do so well at the Olympics, they have dedicated olympics farms that they send little children to to train there entire lives for such occasions.

Even the US SF ODA team didn't make the list of winners, does that mean they are less capable than a Chinese or Lebanon SF unit? Come on!

In a real world mission I would still take the NSG over any other team in this competition, the Chinese are always paper tigers.

 

[rkhanna]

Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha (SFOD-A) "A Detachment" "A Team" The primary operational element of a Special Forces company, an Special Forces Operational Detachment A, also known as an "A Detachment" or "A-Team," consists of 12 Special Forces Soldiers: 2 officers, and 10 sergeants.

Sorry I stand. Corrected. An Oda did participate .

 

[abingdonboy]

Well if we look at those two chinese units there are not from PLA ..These are from PAP basically the police force units so that is one reason NSG was sent as it looks more like a competition between special units of the police forces who deal with internal issues then external threats ... Still the chinese are really making progress every where the Super tank challenge they are taking the trophy for last three years ..May be they are bringing a modified tank just for these challenges and we sending our regular ones .Still we are not able to make it in to top 5 forget top 3 ...

Personally I don't really care where the Indian teams rank in these entirely arbitrary competitions that will never be able to trule reflect the operational capabilties of any of the participents.

As long as the Indian teams that go learn something and are able to come back to India with lessons that can help the relevent units improve (even if only by a tiny bit) in any way then it will have been worthwhile. A few ribbons/cheap medels from a foreign organiser are a distant second in terms or priorities and certainly not why Indian units take part in such occasions.

Indian forces are proffesional and go to these events purely for the learning that they can get, remember at Red Flag the IAF sent a frontline MKI SQN made up of 50% inexperienced pilots so that they could learn lessons that would be within the IAF for a long time and so the IAF could see how their operational guys performed in such an enviroment. The IAF could easily have sent TACDE jocks or instructors just to get the kudos and fleeting approval of the Western press but they did the sensible thing and maximised the LEARNING opportunity of such an exercise.

It wouldn't surprise me if the NSG contingent were going up against the best of the best and instructors from the various units that participated (China/UAE/S.Arabia/etc) whilst they were a regular team just like the US SF team (who also didn't rank that highly).

Let the communists and wannabes (Lebanon/UAE) get their tiny egos fluffed by topping such events, there is a reason they aren't ranked highly by most experts and seem to have little actual real world experience.

Whilst the NSG train with the very best out there (GIGN, Alfa group, GSG9, FBI and US SF).

 

[jai_shri_ram123]

Personally I don't really care where the Indian teams rank in these entirely arbitrary competitions that will never be able to trule reflect the operational capabilties of any of the participents.

As long as the Indian teams that go learn something and are able to come back to India with lessons that can help the relevent units improve (even if only by a tiny bit) in any way then it will have been worthwhile. A few ribbons/cheap medels from a foreign organiser are a distant second in terms or priorities and certainly not why Indian units take part in such occasions.

Indian forces are proffesional and go to these events purely for the learning that they can get, remember at Red Flag the IAF sent a frontline MKI SQN made up of 50% inexperienced pilots so that they could learn lessons that would be within the IAF for a long time and so the IAF could see how their operational guys performed in such an enviroment. The IAF could easily have sent TACDE jocks or instructors just to get the kudos and fleeting approval of the Western press but they did the sensible thing and maximised the LEARNING opportunity of such an exercise.

It wouldn't surprise me if the NSG contingent were going up against the best of the best and instructors from the various units that participated (China/UAE/S.Arabia/etc) whilst they were a regular team just like the US SF team (who also didn't rank that highly).

Let the communists and wannabes (Lebanon/UAE) get their tiny egos fluffed by topping such events, there is a reason they aren't ranked highly by most experts and seem to have little actual real world experience.

Whilst the NSG train with the very best out there (GIGN, Alfa group, GSG9, FBI and US SF).

One of the sane post, I have no idea why most kids want trophy or certification from some foreign country. If they really have this much inferiority complex even after reading on this forum I suggest they read carefully.

There is very little difference between SF of top countries and frankly it doesn't matter at all in real life situation. Ground realty of any situation can greatly enhance our reduce the strength of a SF.

Being constantly in operations and country insurgency activity I think Indian forces will have little edge in a real life situation due to experience gained, this can avoid many rookie mistakes but regardless all of them can get the job done, that's what matter.

If people still want more they can watch Saudi special forces jumping over cars for a video but can't do a thing against Houthi rebels. What looks good on paper may not be as good in real situation.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Respecting your enemy is the basics of being a gentleman and not of kids.

What was said of China before Korean war was similar to what is said now but the fact of the matter was that people got their asses kicked so hard that they wanted to nuke China.Let me not even say what happened in 62 because i know many people who are insecure in their life and bring their psychological problems to the forum.

When Indian AF thrashed USAF in Cope India more than a decade ago the same thing was said..that India used its Aces but it was not the fact.However,it can be true for China.I do not rule this out.

Follow such competitions around the world and the Chinese are really doing well.I think its a good thing to be humble and always appreciate the winner.

I personally had no respect of Chinese soldiers and thought their best tactics is human wave.However winning these competitions takes something.

US SF has technological edge even if they come 5th.We have to makeup for being handicapped in such things by having super human soldiers.

If the next war is faught between China and India it will be SF and AF war.

Our SF has improved a lot over last 10 years and i hope it continues.

My thoughts on the topic is we still have a lot to gain.

I would like Indian Soldiers to excel in such competitions and bring glory to our nation.

 

[uoftotaku]

Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha (SFOD-A) "A Detachment" "A Team" The primary operational element of a Special Forces company, an Special Forces Operational Detachment A, also known as an "A Detachment" or "A-Team," consists of 12 Special Forces Soldiers: 2 officers, and 10 sergeants.

Small correction, its 1 Officer (usually Captain-rank) + 1 Warrant Officer + 10 Sgts.

 

[rishivashista13]

Special Group (4 VIKAS) aka Mavericks
Establishment 22 Indian Army

Weapon : FN P90 PDW
Equipments : Wall penetrating radar used in Closed Quarter Combat

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