Indian Special Forces (archived)

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rkhanna

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^^ Actually i am not.

SOF personal are the elite Olympic level athletes of any military. The Training makes the man. the Equipment translates the training into winning a gold medal.

Yes they could make do with 303 also very effectively but i rather give the the ABSOLUTE BEST chance they have of prevailing. Which means BEST Training + BEST Equipment.
 

singhboy98

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^^ Actually i am not.

SOF personal are the elite Olympic level athletes of any military. The Training makes the man. the Equipment translates the training into winning a gold medal.

Yes they could make do with 303 also very effectively but i rather give the the ABSOLUTE BEST chance they have of prevailing. Which means BEST Training + BEST Equipment.
Then you should tell us as to how they don't have the best equipment (by Indian standards) . And you still have not replied to my question about the lethality of AK's
 

rkhanna

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The AK's lethality is highly subjective. Its accuracy is highly suspect. The model in the picture does not have the mods to add on optics. While it is more than adequete for RR or normal Line Units it is insufficient to the SOF soldiers ability to the max.

The 7.62mm round looses penetration over the 5.56 at long ranges and lastly ITS FRIGGING LOUD.

The Myth of the AK really needs to be rationalized in reality.

Considering Indian SOF soldiers have Tavors, M-4s, SIg 552s, SCARs, Ak-107s etc etc in inventory there is not excuse for a deployed SOF soldier to continue using an "ANTIQUE" AK (the exact phrase used by the original poster_

IMO according to me given the get up etc the Pic looks like a picture from a training module not deployment.

Lastly- Indian SOF soldiers need to get equiped not best by Indian Standards. That is defeatist and shifting the goal post to fail. We need to equip them BY GLOBAL standards.

Any of the major/minor SOF units of acclaim dont limit their SOF budgets to comparable with their own line units

Just look at the Koreans, Polish, Turks, Malaysians, as examples.
 

EXPERT

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For all those who still "Love" your western SOF

Sources within the Special Operations community have described a situation to SOFREP in which SEAL Team Six operators are routinely high on drugs while conducting highly dangerous direct action missions while deployed abroad. Operators are known to abuse methamphetamine and other uppers on a regular basis during combat operations. The use of cocaine and methamphetamine is also quite common while re-deployed back to the United States. The question remains as to how elite Special Operators who must hold a Top Secret security clearance are allowed to not only remain on the SEAL Teams, but also to retain their security clearance.

https://sofrep.com/79161/wild-west-culture-drug-use-operations-permeates-seal-teams/
Methamphetamine is generally used by these soldiers to reduce stress, fear, and other related symptoms. German army during WW II were very much addictive to these drugs.
 

ghost

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You are comparing apple to oranges. SF are not special because of their weapons, they are special because of their training which enables them to make an ordinary looking object into a lethal weapon. The SF's are equipped with all the modern weaponries that exist (well almost) and the AK's kill as well as any other guns that exist. Different weapons are used for different purposes and you do not know the environment or the situation in which these pics where taken.
You represent the school of thought for which Indians are famous for " chalta hai ".We expect special forces to give their 100% to achieve the objective given to them at any cost without any compromise ,then why should we fail to comply with our duty to provide them with the best tools required to achieve those objectives.

There are ton of modern 7.62x39mm rifles available nowadays ,even a high quality AK can be customized to meet the need of a spec op operator.Take for example this demo of a Russian spetsnaz AK.



1 It has multiple rails ,which enable a soldier to mount different optic ,ir laser,flashlight ,forward grip etc.I am sure you are well aware of the requirement and use of all these ,especially a good optic in a firefight.

2 It has a customized flash hider which reduce the flash signature of the rifle.

3 It has an adjustable stock which is straight in line with the barrel ,which reduces the felt recoil due to its alignment with the barrel.As well as allow the soldier to shoulder the rifle as per his comfort length,this stock can be folded to use the rifle in confined places.


4 The safety lever is also customized to enable smooth sliding with a finger tip which is not present on a basic ak.


5 It is painted in desert tan to make it less reflective than the original orange colour of an ak ,enabling better camouflage of the weapon.

Now you have a rifle with ir laser and flashlight to enable quick acquisition of the target in dark,Optics to enable quick and accurate reflex shooting with both eyes open and ease of acquiring target at distance.Customized Flash hider to reduce the rifle signature ,straight line stock which reduce recoil enabling accurate and quick placement of shots.Adjustable stock to set the rifle as per one personal comfort.Vertical grip to keep you support hand away from the heat of the handguard.Paint for better camouflage of your rifle in the surrounding .

Surely this will not make our soldiers invincible ,but it will provide the much required comfort and modularity to the soldiers .



So,you don't want our soldiers to have all this?

Your argument that a spec op soldier is all about training is not entirely true,success of a spec op operation depend on the synergy of various factors in which the tools of war such as weapon do have a small but significant role to play.

You may call an assault rifle a small thing in the whole grandeur of special forces,but why such an apathy towards small things,it does not reflect good on the organization.With such apathy towards small things ,how to believe that such apathy is not spread across everywhere.Attitude is not selective but genral,God is in the detail.

Now please do not bring in Tavor into all this,we are talking about standard issue 7.62x39mm rifle for the special forces which is neither customized or modernized till date (apart from few exceptions).An assault rifle is an extension of a soldier ,you want a 21st century soldier with his extension rusted from 70s.

Such basic ak in special forces only make sense when they have to go undercover or low profile.

Now let's talk about you :

Do you watch a colored television or black and white ,since both at the end of the day are tv.

Do you use a basic mobile phone or a smart phone because at the end of the day both make and receive calls.

Do you use ambassador or any other modern car ,both transport at the end of the day .

These are just few examples where world has moved on ,I am sure even you have moved on, then why don't you want our soldiers to move on.This makes you hypocrite.

If you have not moved on to the latest and modern things and still stuck in past, then its your choice,why do you expect same foolishness from our armed forces.

In the end, I would like to say that an assault rifle might not be everything but it is the primary arm of a soldier. Through which he save and take lives to accomplish his mission,don't rubbish it off, give the credit where its due.

The question to ask is not why a modern 7.62x39mm rifle ,but why not ?


 

Ghost68

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You represent the school of thought for which Indians are famous for " chalta hai ".We expect special forces to give their 100% to achieve the objective given to them at any cost without any compromise ,then why should we fail to comply with our duty to provide them with the best tools required to achieve those objectives.

There are ton of modern 7.62x39mm rifles available nowadays ,even a high quality AK can be customized to meet the need of a spec op operator.Take for example this demo of a Russian spetsnaz AK.



1 It has multiple rails ,which enable a soldier to mount different optic ,ir laser,flashlight ,forward grip etc.I am sure you are well aware of the requirement and use of all these ,especially a good optic in a firefight.

2 It has a customized flash hider which reduce the flash signature of the rifle.

3 It has an adjustable stock which is straight in line with the barrel ,which reduces the felt recoil due to its alignment with the barrel.As well as allow the soldier to shoulder the rifle as per his comfort length,this stock can be folded to use the rifle in confined places.


4 The safety lever is also customized to enable smooth sliding with a finger tip which is not present on a basic ak.


5 It is painted in desert tan to make it less reflective than the original orange colour of an ak ,enabling better camouflage of the weapon.

Now you have a rifle with ir laser and flashlight to enable quick acquisition of the target in dark,Optics to enable quick and accurate reflex shooting with both eyes open and ease of acquiring target at distance.Customized Flash hider to reduce the rifle signature ,straight line stock which reduce recoil enabling accurate and quick placement of shots.Adjustable stock to set the rifle as per one personal comfort.Vertical grip to keep you support hand away from the heat of the handguard.Paint for better camouflage of your rifle in the surrounding .

Surely this will not make our soldiers invincible ,but it will provide the much required comfort and modularity to the soldiers .



So,you don't want our soldiers to have all this?

Your argument that a spec op soldier is all about training is not entirely true,success of a spec op operation depend on the synergy of various factors in which the tools of war such as weapon do have a small but significant role to play.

You may call an assault rifle a small thing in the whole grandeur of special forces,but why such an apathy towards small things,it does not reflect good on the organization.With such apathy towards small things ,how to believe that such apathy is not spread across everywhere.Attitude is not selective but genral,God is in the detail.

Now please do not bring in Tavor into all this,we are talking about standard issue 7.62x39mm rifle for the special forces which is neither customized or modernized till date (apart from few exceptions).An assault rifle is an extension of a soldier ,you want a 21st century soldier with his extension rusted from 70s.

Such basic ak in special forces only make sense when they have to go undercover or low profile.

Now let's talk about you :

Do you watch a colored television or black and white ,since both at the end of the day are tv.

Do you use a basic mobile phone or a smart phone because at the end of the day both make and receive calls.

Do you use ambassador or any other modern car ,both transport at the end of the day .

These are just few examples where world has moved on ,I am sure even you have moved on, then why don't you want our soldiers to move on.This makes you hypocrite.

If you have not moved on to the latest and modern things and still stuck in past, then its your choice,why do you expect same foolishness from our armed forces.

In the end, I would like to say that an assault rifle might not be everything but it is the primary arm of a soldier. Through which he save and take lives to accomplish his mission,don't rubbish it off, give the credit where its due.

The question to ask is not why a modern 7.62x39mm rifle ,but why not ?


Some times I feel sad as how bureaucracy has spoiled the procurement of advance weaponry for our soldiers.
Well there was an upgraded ak seen what happened to it?
 

Crixus

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The reaction of Americans after killing OBL towards Pakistan indicates that they have some kind of deal ...other wiise he was the same OBL for whom they attacked Afghanistan and for same OBL they praised Pakistan ;)
Brig Khalid came into picture much later, as early as 2008 RAW was feeding intel to CIA. CIA was back then still looking around in the mountain ranges of Af/Pak. RAW pointed them to hone in on Islamabad, by 2011 RAW was certain he was within a few km radius of a Paki military establishment. Taking that intel further the CIA strong armed a few in the ISI. Khalid caved into the pressure perhaps, there were others, heck even Mush knew where OBL was. They didn't know he was about to be toasted or made to disappear.
 

abingdonboy

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You are comparing apple to oranges. SF are not special because of their weapons, they are special because of their training which enables them to make an ordinary looking object into a lethal weapon. The SF's are equipped with all the modern weaponries that exist (well almost) and the AK's kill as well as any other guns that exist. Different weapons are used for different purposes and you do not know the environment or the situation in which these pics where taken.
Sorry bro but I am getting tired of this, "they may not have the best equipment but have the best training to make up for it" nonsense. It is perfectly possible to have the best equipment AND training, it is not one or the other.

A nation that has been waging a sub-conventional war for 70+ years and has an annual defence budget totally >$40Bn can only equip its very BEST soldiers in such a fashion? That says it all doesn't it?

India is never going to defeat a threat it doesn't even take seriously, f*ck this chalta hai attitude, how many young men, the very best among us, have lost their lives because of this cr@p? The CT and COIN troops should get the FIRST bite of the defence budget, if they aren't properly equipped no other unit/force should get a single penny. Whilst the navy is polishing their brand spanking new $1bn each warships and the airforce parking up their $100m+ jets these poor souls are out there on the frontlines facing a relentless enemy EVERY SINGLE DAY. The least they can do is get some decent equipment, it's not like they are asking for Iron Man suits, just something resembling modern equipment.
 

armyofhind

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You represent the school of thought for which Indians are famous for " chalta hai ".We expect special forces to give their 100% to achieve the objective given to them at any cost without any compromise ,then why should we fail to comply with our duty to provide them with the best tools required to achieve those objectives.

There are ton of modern 7.62x39mm rifles available nowadays ,even a high quality AK can be customized to meet the need of a spec op operator.Take for example this demo of a Russian spetsnaz AK.



1 It has multiple rails ,which enable a soldier to mount different optic ,ir laser,flashlight ,forward grip etc.I am sure you are well aware of the requirement and use of all these ,especially a good optic in a firefight.

2 It has a customized flash hider which reduce the flash signature of the rifle.

3 It has an adjustable stock which is straight in line with the barrel ,which reduces the felt recoil due to its alignment with the barrel.As well as allow the soldier to shoulder the rifle as per his comfort length,this stock can be folded to use the rifle in confined places.


4 The safety lever is also customized to enable smooth sliding with a finger tip which is not present on a basic ak.


5 It is painted in desert tan to make it less reflective than the original orange colour of an ak ,enabling better camouflage of the weapon.

Now you have a rifle with ir laser and flashlight to enable quick acquisition of the target in dark,Optics to enable quick and accurate reflex shooting with both eyes open and ease of acquiring target at distance.Customized Flash hider to reduce the rifle signature ,straight line stock which reduce recoil enabling accurate and quick placement of shots.Adjustable stock to set the rifle as per one personal comfort.Vertical grip to keep you support hand away from the heat of the handguard.Paint for better camouflage of your rifle in the surrounding .

Surely this will not make our soldiers invincible ,but it will provide the much required comfort and modularity to the soldiers .



So,you don't want our soldiers to have all this?

Your argument that a spec op soldier is all about training is not entirely true,success of a spec op operation depend on the synergy of various factors in which the tools of war such as weapon do have a small but significant role to play.

You may call an assault rifle a small thing in the whole grandeur of special forces,but why such an apathy towards small things,it does not reflect good on the organization.With such apathy towards small things ,how to believe that such apathy is not spread across everywhere.Attitude is not selective but genral,God is in the detail.

Now please do not bring in Tavor into all this,we are talking about standard issue 7.62x39mm rifle for the special forces which is neither customized or modernized till date (apart from few exceptions).An assault rifle is an extension of a soldier ,you want a 21st century soldier with his extension rusted from 70s.

Such basic ak in special forces only make sense when they have to go undercover or low profile.

Now let's talk about you :

Do you watch a colored television or black and white ,since both at the end of the day are tv.

Do you use a basic mobile phone or a smart phone because at the end of the day both make and receive calls.

Do you use ambassador or any other modern car ,both transport at the end of the day .

These are just few examples where world has moved on ,I am sure even you have moved on, then why don't you want our soldiers to move on.This makes you hypocrite.

If you have not moved on to the latest and modern things and still stuck in past, then its your choice,why do you expect same foolishness from our armed forces.

In the end, I would like to say that an assault rifle might not be everything but it is the primary arm of a soldier. Through which he save and take lives to accomplish his mission,don't rubbish it off, give the credit where its due.

The question to ask is not why a modern 7.62x39mm rifle ,but why not ?


For one, The picture which you've attached is not an AK chambered for 7.62x39mm.
Its a 5.45x39mm. The straighter STANAG type magazine gives it away.

Russian SSO mostly use upgraded AK-105 and 107. Or the New AK-12.
All other points regarding modern equipment are very valid.
 

ghost

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For one, The picture which you've attached is not an AK chambered for 7.62x39mm.
Its a 5.45x39mm. The straighter STANAG type magazine gives it away.

Russian SSO mostly use upgraded AK-105 and 107. Or the New AK-12.
All other points regarding modern equipment are very valid.
I am aware of it,I posted those photos to represent a modernized AK platform,my point being such customization can be done to a high quality 7.62x39mm ak.
 

abingdonboy

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Looks like Babu Forces(Home Ministry) is spending more money on gears and equipment than our Army-

What could be the problem ?
NSG SAG is around 2,000 strong, Indian Army is around 1.2 MILLION strong, it's much much easier to equip the NSG.
 

Guest

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NSG SAG is around 2,000 strong, Indian Army is around 1.2 MILLION strong, it's much much easier to equip the NSG.
Not only NSG but also CRPF, CISF ITBP etc- there has been lots of improvements in the gears and clothing of these forces- I was surprised to see CRPF using digital camouflage before Army-
 

singhboy98

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Not only NSG but also CRPF, CISF ITBP etc- there has been lots of improvements in the gears and clothing of these forces- I was surprised to see CRPF using digital camouflage before Army-
Are these the usual replacement due to wear and tear or this time, a part of some modernisation plan ?
 

ezsasa

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Are these the usual replacement due to wear and tear or this time, a part of some modernisation plan ?
Since the IA big bosses are not able to get their act together wrt procurement, Parrikar had increased funds at commander level to 400 crores. Now front line commanders can buy whatever they want directly instead of waiting for central procurement process to complete.
 
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