Indian Special Forces (archived)

[ghost]

Truely said bro.We have lot of units with SF badges but doesn't know whether they are up to the mark except MARCOS.Even US has less number of SF guys than us.I am not meaning any disrespect to the guys in uniform.But there are some aspects which made me think.
Eg:5,6,& 7 PARA are given SF airborne status.But they are just para qualified infantry men with some additional skills like 81st airborne or VDV.But those units does not come under the category of Tier 1 SF.Even 75th US Ranger guys are considered as tier II SF.
Its already allegation that the SFairborne tag had been given to provide them with the same perks and allowance of rest of the SF guys.
Plus there are already 8 PARA SF battalions and 2 are under raising. Instead of raising new SF why not create a super specialised force out of all the elite units in india like US SOG?
Coz by converting all PARA into SF are reducing ordinary PARA battalions which is a must for any army .Also it is hard to believe that such a mammoth SF could posses the capabilities of a true SF.

You have hit the nail on the head bro it is sad but bitter truth a hard reality which most of people tend to ignore .Men are mostly same in all the voluntary sf but one has to realize it is the training tactics and edge in technology which polish these men into a true potent and lethal Sf.

The fact you stated about converting into sf more for the perks and bonus is also true and harsh reality of indian forces.It make me sad to see that in india they are able to convenience gov into establishing more and more sf battalion when they completely fail to upgrade the current sf in term of equipment and training.For the current pitty condition of are Sf they blame lack of finance but then fail to ans where does the finances come to raise new and new battalion of Sf.

To tell you for a fact after brief russian and georgian war the russian realize that the need of modern battlefield is not high quantity but high quality hence after the battle they have begun to decrease the size of their force and increase the quality and lethality.

For india i wish we form a right balance between numbers and quality since in modern warfare with nukes ,misssile and un manned battlefield technology the large numbers really are of not much use.Particularly for Sf we have to do as you say make one elite sf with its own secret budget Though you have spoken of marcos and it's true but i also regard SFF as one of the most potent Sf of india.(atleast i hope so)

 

[Twinblade]

Truely said bro.We have lot of units with SF badges but doesn't know whether they are up to the mark except MARCOS.Even US has less number of SF guys than us.I am not meaning any disrespect to the guys in uniform.But there are some aspects which made me think.
Eg:5,6,& 7 PARA are given SF airborne status.But they are just para qualified infantry men with some additional skills like 81st airborne or VDV.But those units does not come under the category of Tier 1 SF.Even 75th US Ranger guys are considered as tier II SF.
Its already allegation that the SFairborne tag had been given to provide them with the same perks and allowance of rest of the SF guys.
Plus there are already 8 PARA SF battalions and 2 are under raising. Instead of raising new SF why not create a super specialised force out of all the elite units in india like US SOG?
Coz by converting all PARA into SF are reducing ordinary PARA battalions which is a must for any army .Also it is hard to believe that such a mammoth SF could posses the capabilities of a true SF.

It's not an allegation, it's the truth. Lt Gen Katoch, former head of the army SF say's the same thing. Para commandos have been reduced from special status to more like elite infantry status.

Whither Special Forces?
By Lt Gen Prakash KatochIssue Net Edition | Date : 28 Jan , 2014

While discussing a monogram on Special Forces at a prominent Think Tank in New Delhi last month (December 2013), one of the discussants (a former Brigadier) opined that the "entire Parachute Regiment should form part of the proposed Special Forces Command." It is not the stupidity and absurdity of the proposal alone but the dogged pusillanimous pursuit with which this idea of converting all Parachute Battalions to Special Forces has been followed over the years – stymieing the Special Forces; pulling them down any which way so that the Parachute Battalions can wear the Special Forces badge and more importantly, get the Special Forces allowance in the process. That this Brigadier was a former paratrooper requires no guesses. But it so happened, that he was a last minute substitute to the two-star officer in Military Operations Directorate of the Army. The latter's name had already been mentioned in the program for the said event circulated to all concerned by the Think Tank. Why the two-star ducked was obviously to avoid uncomfortable questions since he has not served for a single day in a Special Forces unit and was probably advised to stay away by the Director General of Military Operations who happens to be Colonel of the Parachute Regiment and has never served with Special Forces either. So the Brigadier was commandeered all the way from Kolkata to do their bidding.

Read More:-
Whither Special Forces? » Indian Defence Review

About the Author
Lt Gen Prakash Katoch
Prakash Katoch is a former Lt Gen Special Forces, Indian Army

 

[Kushal sinha]

Indian Navy MARCOS

why r they wearing they old styled camo

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The photo is very old itself, During that time they used to wear such camo ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

PARA Commando ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

PARA Commando ..

 

[Mansi Singh]

commandersaab.com

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

here is a nice video on cobra commando's of crpf doing exemplary work in the red corridor.

 

[Immanuel]

I think the comparing of Para Commando units in the IA to other units around the world isn't going to prove much since few forces & I can only think of Delta/ ST6/SAS that have a training to match the holistic nature of our SF training. Men from Para-SF (not para airborne- tier2), MARCOS, and Garuds can easily be considered Tier-1. The fact that they spend months on end in some of the deepest jungles, baking deserts and bone cracking chills & heights should alone qualify them to be among the most well trained. However, they have much to catch-up on employability.

Actually we underestimate the training that is given in the IA, even regular infantry units like Gorkhas have out performed well known SF units in Cambrian Patrols. Apart from the US, Israel, Britain, India remains the most experienced in COIN ops and we've been doing it for decades. The fact is we also do this with hardly any light armor support & very limited UAT support also puts us a cut above the rest. Even the RR would easily rate better than most SF units in the world when it comes to employing of tactics and overall mission effectiveness. Actually had RR been the ones fighting the Afghan war, the Talibs, the haqqanies etc would have long disappeared into small groups with little power, occsaional violence which would have been far more controllable.

I have heard of many units including ST6, Delta, Green Berets, Spetnaz often shocked when they come to Mizo for some jungle training or go to Kargil battle school or for desert warfare training to Rajasthan to often find regular IA infantry faring far better. SF training with any of the 3 forces takes about 4 years before they are qualified SF ( I do hate the conversion of Airborne to SF with little retraining)

IA, IN and IAF SF units easily rank the best in field craft, long duration missions, all terrain training and combat effectiveness. The things to improve would be on deployability, technology and organization.

 

[ALBY]

Did any one knew whether men from CAPF could undergo para jumping training as part oof their commando trainig?Also is the SG of SFF exclusively for military persons or eligible men from paramilitaries like CRPF or itbp could volunteer??

 

[abingdonboy]

The Indian SF are not much developed as compared to the western SF in terms of the training or equipment.And there is not much scientific study done into the improvemnt of capabilities of SF as compared to western counterparts.This was said to me by a former colonel in army who had served in 51 SAG.
To validate his points he said that back in his days they were send to train with GSG9 in germany.To the amusement of our guys the obstacle clearance training is carriedd in a small auditorium with lots of obstacles where as in india it is done in a vast out door area.
But he said that the very next day after doing the obstacle clearance the pain of muscle parts was so unbearable that they could feel each and every muscle in their body.
And compared with the obstacle course done in germany the one in india was nothing.
Also in indian SF back then each member in a squad was specialised in someething but none were cross trained.But thee GSG9 guys werre specialised in all skills.For eg:in a typical indian SF squad one will be specialised in sniping,other comm expert,other demolition man and one man will be driver.But the GSG9 guys were speciaised in all aspects .He said only now the situation is slowly changing.
He said that of all the SF units in INDIA MARCOS is the best consiidering their skills.

Yes things are changing.

But I would say about the training/cross-training part, the way IA and IN SFs work (not sure about IAF SF) is that each operator on a team has a primary (weapons, comns, explosives, navigation, medicine etc) and secondary skill ( one of the above) so that you do have cross-training to an extent within a SF team and each operator will be proficient in all fields but will only be highly skilled in 2- this is the way most Western SFs work in the world even the likes of US and UK SFs . It's impossible to have an operator skilled in every single field as the amount of training and expertise is just vast and not doable for any one individual. This way you have teams who are able to do almost any task you set them and as a team they are exceptional, that's not to say as individuals they are useless.

I agree with the lack of a scientific approach being taken though, it's like sports science. In the old days SFs were pushed to the limits on a regular basis with little understanding what this would do to their bodies long-run and little physiological care, which did lead to a lot of early retirements caused by injuries, today the picture is a little better for sure but there's always room for improvement.

 

[abingdonboy]

Truely said bro.We have lot of units with SF badges but doesn't know whether they are up to the mark except MARCOS.Even US has less number of SF guys than us.I am not meaning any disrespect to the guys in uniform.But there are some aspects which made me think.
Eg:5,6,& 7 PARA are given SF airborne status.But they are just para qualified infantry men with some additional skills like 81st airborne or VDV.But those units does not come under the category of Tier 1 SF.Even 75th US Ranger guys are considered as tier II SF.
Its already allegation that the SFairborne tag had been given to provide them with the same perks and allowance of rest of the SF guys.
Plus there are already 8 PARA SF battalions and 2 are under raising. Instead of raising new SF why not create a super specialised force out of all the elite units in india like US SOG?
Coz by converting all PARA into SF are reducing ordinary PARA battalions which is a must for any army .Also it is hard to believe that such a mammoth SF could posses the capabilities of a true SF.

I'm sorry but this is nonsense.

1) the US has a LOT more SF operators than India (even though their militaries are not too dissimilar in size). The US SOCOM has over 72,000 members and has a target of growing at 4% year on year. Granted not all of these 72,000 are "shooters" or "badged operators" (as the US Mil refers to them), by all accounts only half of this 72,000 figure are actual operators even still this dwarfs India's figure of around around 11-14,000.

2) 5,6 and 7 BTNs have NOT transitioned to SF btns and are not set to either. In fact these btns have been purposely left out of the plans for India's SOCOM.

 

[abingdonboy]

Though you have spoken of marcos and it's true but i also regard SFF as one of the most potent Sf of india.(atleast i hope so)

SFF is in no way a SF organisation. I think you're referring to Special Group. There are only 3 SFs in India- Garuds, PARA (SF) and MARCOs as acknowledged by the GoI and the SG but their existence is officially denied by the GoI. People can call the SFF or CoBRAs SFs but that doesn't make it true. I see a lot of attacks on the current system but this seems to be borne out of ignorance to the realties rather than any actual knowledge.

 

[abingdonboy]

Did any one knew whether men from CAPF could undergo para jumping training as part oof their commando trainig?Also is the SG of SFF exclusively for military persons or eligible men from paramilitaries like CRPF or itbp could volunteer??

Some CAPFs do earn airborne-qualifications and their "wings" but it's a rarity. The NSG would be an exception here, most if not all of the SAG will have their "wings". The SG is made up purely of Army personal (operators and support personnel), men from the CAPFs are ineligible.

 

[abingdonboy]

PARA (SF):

 

[abingdonboy]

PARA (SF) contd...

 

[abingdonboy]

PARA (SF) contd....

 

[abingdonboy]

PARA (SF) contd...

 

[abingdonboy]

Full video here:

@boris @Kunal Biswas @ALBY @ghost @cobra commando

 

[abingdonboy]

Special Protection Group (SPG) Counter Assault Team (CAT) member: