Indian nuclear submarines

[sayareakd]

sob has a very bad meaning.....

sorry i was on mobile i thought your post as post by 'Sob' who is member here. My most humble apologies to you.

What was i thinking.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The provided links are not related with topic at hand, I requested data with relation to India only ..

Afaik,There is no lack of resources which are provided by Pvt leads such as TATA and L&T and Gov firms, If so provide specific links..

Who ever said that India is highly densed does not know abt India ..

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I am waiting for the reply, How you visualized import of nuclear material is cheaper in both long and short runs..

cost a major factor

second limited availability of resources forcing foreign uranium for electricity and our uranium for defence purposes

third environmental -no need to say.in a highly dense country like india,problems are definitely more severe

 

[drkrn]

The provided links are not related with topic at hand, I requested data with relation to India only ..

Afaik,There is no lack of resources which are provided by Pvt leads such as TATA and L&T and Gov firms, If so provide specific links..

Who ever said that India is highly densed does not know abt India ..

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I am waiting for the reply, How you visualized import of nuclear material is cheaper in both long and short runs..

i specifically meant population density.
i agree i couldn't find any proper links about uranium mining costs in india. our's is still in the beginning,making a step into international nuclear market.

lack of resources,i mean human resources.
to train a person of such highly skilled work takes years.yes tata,L&T can provide material resources,but skilled labor!! i doubt that..


my logic is that why is india going to buy enmass from many sellers when we have enough resources??
only thing that comes to my mind is being cheap on large scale prodution and no problems to mining..

how come china provide materials soo cheap..bulk production.we sometimes get made in china products at afraction of made in india...thats my logic

 

[Defcon 1]

The provided links are not related with topic at hand, I requested data with relation to India only ..

Afaik,There is no lack of resources which are provided by Pvt leads such as TATA and L&T and Gov firms, If so provide specific links..

Who ever said that India is highly densed does not know abt India ..

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I am waiting for the reply, How you visualized import of nuclear material is cheaper in both long and short runs..

India does have a population density of a little less than 400. That is 6th highest amongst all the countries of the world having population greater than 10 million or second highest among countries having population higher than 100 million.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Partially correct for both of you, Density is indeed high but in pockets not over all the land mass ..

Human resource are available so does training ..

i specifically meant population density.

lack of resources,i mean human resources.
to train a person of such highly skilled work takes years.yes tata,L&T can provide material resources,but skilled labor!! i doubt that..

India does have a population density of a little less than 400. That is 6th highest amongst all the countries of the world having population greater than 10 million or second highest among countries having population higher than 100 million.

 

[drkrn]

Partially correct for both of you, Density is indeed high but in pockets not over all the land mass ..

Human resource are available so does training ..

populations tend to be more near water bodies, a prerequisite for nuclear plant installation.
any kind of skilled labour base takes years to train,not considering attrition as it will increase time even more

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Being over 90% of this country since child, I aware of my statement ...

There is no lack of engg and Scientist in nuclear field they are and were all along, I have members of my family in such fields ..

populations tend to be more near water bodies, a prerequisite for nuclear plant installation.
any kind of skilled labour base takes years to train,not considering attrition as it will increase time even more

 

[nirranj]

These launch tubes are slightly slanted. By slanting the tubes, can we accommodate missiles that are longer than 13m?

Isn't this a solution until we get our SLBMs shrunk in their length?

Will our SLBM launch tubes be like those in these two photos?

 

[arnabmit]

INS Arihant And Regional Stability – Analysis | idrw.org
SOURCE: EURASIA REVIEW

India has made another step in seemingly inexorable military rise on the technological crutches provided by the Russians in nuclear submarine technology. This deployment of the nuclear-powered submarines can have serious consequences for the strategic stability of the region.

As India is the world's top importer of major conventional weapons and plans to spend over USD 100 billion in this sector in next 5-10 years. For year 2013-2014, there has been a 5.3% increase in the Indian defense budget. Previously, an increase of more than 17% in the defense budget (year 2012-2013) has been recorded with an allocation of USD 40.44 billion in this sector.

This prevalent economic equation obviously facilitates India to shift the balance of power in its favor thereby not only provoking Pakistan to respond in kind but would also start affecting the threat calculus of other nuclear powers.

With the induction of the nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) INS Arihant and future plans of adding three more indigenously-built SSBNs to India's naval forces by 2025, New Delhi is posturing to instigate a strategic shift in the Indian Ocean and even beyond.

The induction of the Arihant would be destabilizing because it will increase its tendency to pre-empt a nuclear attack. Though India has a so-called nuclear first use pledge, it does not take similar Chinese policy as credible.

Likewise, its strategy of fighting a conventional war under nuclear overhang is tantamount to provoke Pakistan to nuclear response and negates the essence of NFU policy that New Delhi tries to sell. Its ballistic missile defense plan would also increase its proclivity to risk taking because India will have this false sense of security against ballistic missiles that it may feel 'confident' to destroy in their flight path.

Indian Navy's long term acquisition plans include three SSBN and six SSN submarines will affect the strategic equilibrium between India and Pakistan. Indian Navy is on a massive surge plan to construct a blue water flotilla. Its massive development plans include the acquirement of both indigenous and leased nuclear powered submarines and various other platforms capable of launching nuclear weapons i.e. delivering nuclear weapons from the air, surface and sub-surface thus confirming its second strike capability.

The Indian Navys other acquisitions include the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, renamed as INS Vikramaditya with 16 MiG-29K/KUBs and 6 to 8 Ka-31 AEW helicopters. India is also constructing 3 Indigenous Aircraft Carriers for the IN. It also plans to construct 3 destroyers of Kolkata class and Guided Missile Frigate's, four ASW Corvettes, four 4 Saryu class Operational Patrol Vessels, four Landing Platform Docks, and acquire two Osprey Class Mine Hunters and eight P8-I Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft from USA, besides developing additional strategic naval bases. These developments will further destabilize the strategic stability of the region.

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Worthless analysis IMHO.

For a pacifist country like India, against an extremist country like Pak, holding a decisive edge in armament is the only thing which ensures stability. It is the only thing which prevents MAD.

 

[Rizvi Khan]

AFAIK INS Arihant is probably an old design. But at least we got something of our own. But we need to increase research on diesel electric submarines too as they are shrinking in our arsenal and the ones on order are just taking forever. Hope SBC builds the other two quickly to manage the gap for depleting submarine force.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

yeah...........

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Read the rest of the thread, Arihant design is as per Indian needs ..

Its a SSGN,SSBN so does a SSN ..

Its a complete evolution in Nuclear Submarine design ..

AFAIK INS Arihant is probably an old design.

 

[drkrn]

Read the rest of the thread, Arihant design is as per Indian needs ..

Its a SSGN,SSBN so does a SSN ..

Its a complete evolution in Nuclear Submarine design ..

simply a true multi purpose design

 

[Decklander]

simply a true multi purpose design

The true Indian Jugaad.

 

[natarajan]

Nuclear Submarine INS Arihant diving trials awaits rescue vehicle from Russia

 

[happy]

Without a DSRV Arihant will not be able to do underwater test ???

 

[sayareakd]

Without a DSRV Arihant will not be able to do underwater test ???

It is not that it cant go for test, they just want to make sure that in worse case situation, they have underwater rescue vehicle available to them, when Arihant go for test. Think of this as standard testing procedure for the new sub to go on its first sea trial.

Nothing wrong in that. Those who are risking their lives for the first test of the sub, deserve to have all the life saving devices made available to them to take on worse case situation.

 

[happy]

It is not that it cant go for test, they just want to make sure that in worse case situation, they have underwater rescue vehicle available to them, when Arihant go for test. Think of this as standard testing procedure for the new sub to go on its first sea trial.

Nothing wrong in that. Those who are risking their lives for the first test of the sub, deserve to have all the life saving devices made available to them to take on worse case situation.

All the same, just think, if our tender process for 2 dsrv drag on for a couple of years or even 1 year how long the tests are going to be delayed. It would be better if we immediately lease one from russia like the chakra.

 

[sayareakd]

All the same, just think, if our tender process for 2 dsrv drag on for a couple of years or even 1 year how long the tests are going to be delayed. It would be better if we immediately lease one from russia like the chakra.

It is not as if they have got lots of Nuke subs lying with them for lease. First of all you have to find an unfinished sub, then you have to have long negotiations with Russians only of they are willing to lease a sub, then money will be transferred and sub is completed then all the tests. Then it will be released to us, when final payment is made. It will take years.

Added later on:
L&T has got its hands full, but they can make good DSRV based on their mini sub design. I am sure they can come up with DSRV in shot period of time.
L&T has got its hands full

 

[happy]

It is not as if they have got lots of Nuke subs lying with them for lease. First of all you have to find an unfinished sub, then you have to have long negotiations with Russians only of they are willing to lease a sub, then money will be transferred and sub is completed then all the tests. Then it will be released to us, when final payment is made. It will take years.

In the below article, it appears that Russia has atleast 5 DSRVs. Would it be so difficult to lease one??

Russia has two known Deep Submergence Rescue vehicle (DSRV) types – Bester and Priz class (Project 1855). It is estimated that Russian navy operates 5 titanium hulled Priz class submarines and one Bester Class (Bester-1 rescue submersible). The Priz class submarines are carried by Pionier Moskvyy class submersible support ships (Project 05360/05361). Russia is also known to be building a Bester-1 for recently launched rescue ship Igor Belousov.

Read more: Nuclear Submarine INS Arihant trials awaits rescue vehicle from Russia
Frontier India - news, Analysis, Opinion
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In the below article it seems that they are also not very costly. So, I don;t understand why Russia would not lease one to India temporarily.

If the DSRV was so badly needed, why did the Navy not get it till now? There are no easy answers as its purchase has so far remained undecided.

"Does it take a tragedy of INS Sindhurakshak's nature, in which we lost 18 of our highly skilled submariners, to shake up the bureaucratic machinery out of its slumber?" asks Com. Uday Bhaskar.

Sources say the cost of a DSRV should range from $40 million to $60 million, which is not at all a "high" price for procuring such specialised equipment to rescue personnel trapped in submarines which are very advanced technologically but can turn into "iron coffins" when crippled.

After going through the RFI, the Navy will shortlist vendors for issue of the Request for Proposal (RFP) and only after that will qualitative requirements be framed.

"This process, even if speeded up, could take up to a year or more before the Navy finally gets the submarine rescue bell system," said a senior Navy officer.

"Navy should have a DSRV for each coastal flank" - The Hindu