Indian nuclear submarines

[Ripples]

Looking at the amount of secretiveness involved in the project "ATV" it will be as much as shooting in the darkness if some one were to guess its precise purpose. There are certain aspects of a submarine that tells a lot about its capability and use for example speed, shape of the hull. Only one thing can be assumed without a doubt that it does posses (or likely to posses soon) SSBN capabilities. It is true that as per the international standards SSNs usually posses a submerged speed of over 30 knots but when we put things into the perspective I doubt hardly there are any submarines in PN which can cross well over 20knts (submerged) correct me if I am wrong. Same goes with Chinese SSKs. This conjecture becomes more forceful when we keep in mind the fact that the design of ATV was based on Akula which is an SSN. Now when we look at the Akula II development we see that it was'nt much of a hassle to replace the usual nuke tippes cruise missile armory by anti ship cruise missiles. So it will not be very out of the world thinking that some of the available silos in ATV dedicated for so called k 15 may be carrying something else in them after all.

 

[sayareakd]

found on the net from open source.

 

[Decklander]

A SSN with 20knts speed?

I have serious doubts over this speed. The last Russian ambassador in India had described Arihant to be Akula-2 class sub in tech and abilities plus a bit more. Most of the times the true top speed of subs is never told correctly for unknown reasons. I wud consider the speed to be about 28-30 kts dived for Arihant. That is a good speed considering that Arihant has missiles to attack ships and 28 kts is a very good speed to chase down DE subs. A sub doing over 12 kts is so loud underwater that it can be detected from 10s of miles easily.

 

[Ripples]

I have serious doubts over this speed. The last Russian ambassador in India had described Arihant to be Akula-2 class sub in tech and abilities plus a bit more. Most of the times the true top speed of subs is never told correctly for unknown reasons. I wud consider the speed to be about 28-30 kts dived for Arihant. That is a good speed considering that Arihant has missiles to attack ships and 28 kts is a very good speed to chase down DE subs. A sub doing over 12 kts is so loud underwater that it can be detected from 10s of miles easily.

Unless we get too technical with the English language and start calling torpedo a missile Which is the missiles carried by Arihant that can attack a ship? Or it's some kind of insider info because no such revelation exists in the public domain ( in spite of the fact that its very much possible)

 

[Decklander]

Unless we get too technical with the English language and start calling torpedo a missile Which is the missiles carried by Arihant that can attack a ship? Or it's some kind of insider info because no such revelation exists in the public domain ( in spite of the fact that its very much possible)

same Klub missile as Kilo class subs.

 

[Ripples]

same Klub missile as Kilo class subs.

As expected but is it an insider info from your side? Because there is nothing as of now in the public domain that suggests anything anything like that.

 

[Decklander]

As expected but is it an insider info from your side? Because there is nothing as of now in the public domain that suggests anything anything like that.

I have very clearly stated that Arihant is Indian Juggad of SSGN+SSBN+SSN. Hope you you remember it.
In India we use a tractor trolley for transporting agricultural goods, for transporting building material like a truck and also for transporting people like a Bus.

 

[p2prada]

As expected but is it an insider info from your side? Because there is nothing as of now in the public domain that suggests anything anything like that.

Indeed, information that Klub is part of Arihant is not known in official news. But we all know for a fact that it will have one for sure simply because IN won't ask for anything lesser than a fully compliant sub.

Ballistic missiles, quasi ballistic missiles, anti-ship missiles, land attack cruise missiles and torpedoes. Hopefully even a SAM.

 

[Decklander]

Indeed, information that Klub is part of Arihant is not known in official news. But we all know for a fact that it will have one for sure simply because IN won't ask for anything lesser than a fully compliant sub.

Ballistic missiles, quasi ballistic missiles, anti-ship missiles, land attack cruise missiles and torpedoes. Hopefully even a SAM.

Nirbhay missile test failed last time which was supposed to be a 1000 km missile with nuke ability and just 520mm radius. A missile tube with 2.6m will accomodate four of them easily. Does it ring something in you guys?

 

[LalTopi]

I have very clearly stated that Arihant is Indian Juggad of SSGN+SSBN+SSN. Hope you you remember it.
In India we use a tractor trolley for transporting agricultural goods, for transporting building material like a truck and also for transporting people like a Bus.

On the subject of Juggad and tractors:

Jugaad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[p2prada]

Nirbhay missile test failed last time which was supposed to be a 1000 km missile with nuke ability and just 520mm radius. A missile tube with 2.6m will accomodate four of them easily. Does it ring something in you guys?

The 4 missiles per canister is very similar to what's on the American Mk41 launchers for SAMs.

A combination of Nirbhay and K-14 would be aimed against Pakistan. If we say half the launchers each, that's a lot of warheads. 4 Nirbhays in 2 canisters each + 3 K-14s in 2 canisters each. That's 14 crackers. Or 16 Nirbhay missiles if we go for a SSGN config for at least one sub.

A combination of extended version of Nirbhay and K-4 can be aimed at China. K-4 with MIRV is a lot of warheads too. Assuming 2 canisters for Nirbhay and 2 for K-4 with 3 MIRV, that's 14 warheads again but with extended range.

Even if we take a 50% failure rate for the missiles, 7 crackers will still rain down on them.

Considering later iterations of Arihant will be much larger, there will be a linear increase in warheads too. Get at least 5 or 6 such subs by 2030 and we will have a first class submarine based second strike capability on anywhere between 70 and 100 warheads. Nothing like it. Add the silos and rail launched missiles under SFC, we could very well have 200 missiles and many more warheads for second strike by the end of the next decade. That's as good as what the British or French have.

A torpedo + AShM + SAM combo will keep Arihant safe from subs, ships and aircraft.

I find it funny that the Chinese media is so focussed on our half completed carrier when our nuke sub is near ready.

 

[Yusuf]

Nirbhay missile test failed last time which was supposed to be a 1000 km missile with nuke ability and just 520mm radius. A missile tube with 2.6m will accomodate four of them easily. Does it ring something in you guys?

It definitely will be part of it & infact render the K-15 useless as it has 700mms range. Nirbhay could be made to launch from torpedo tubes like how the Tomahawk of US is.

 

[p2prada]

It definitely will be part of it & infact render the K-15 useless as it has 700mms range. Nirbhay could be made to launch from torpedo tubes like how the Tomahawk of US is.

Neither can make the other obsolete since there are major differences in speed and trajectory between the two.

Also, a cruise missile can be taken out by an aircraft if it is spotted while Pak has no means of stopping a K-15 using hard kill.

 

[Immanuel]

Very True, 4*Nirbhay per launch tube would be awesome, I am sure we can even manage 4 Brahmos per tube as well. Then it all comes down to submarine numbers. I think the ATV being a very small sub and if all sources are to be believed, a quiet & fast one, its ideal to have around 30 to 40 of these subs over the next 15-20 years. Mass production is the only way, we would gain world class sub building experience with a large order, cost per sub could be managed to under 1 billion. Actually P-75I should be the last sub import, ideally 6 more scorpenes with AIP i.e fleet size of 12, these should be dedciated for fleet defence of carrier battle groups 1 per CBG (I assume 4 carriers eventually) remaining 8 can be used for hunter killer missions + Land attack + clandestine SF ops as well.

Assuming 40 ATV subs in various configs, the various sub groups would keep a rotation on roles in order to stay well versed in sub warfare:

8 Subs armed with pure Nirbhay1/2: 4*4*8 = 128 Nirbhays readily deployable for stand off Land attack roles, 2 dedicated for Pak 6 for China

8 Subs armed with pure Brahmos 1/2: 4*4*8 = 128 Brahmos readily deployable, 4 Carrier Battle Groups with 2 subs attached each. Dedicated for fleet defence along with 4 Scorpenes (1 per CBG), 1 CBG dedciated for Pak while the other 3 dedicated for China.

8 Subs armed with pure conventional K-15: 3*4*8 = 96 Sagarikas readily deployable for Standoff Land attack roles, destruction of enemy critcal assets such as key command & control centres, Over the horizon radars and long range air defence radars etc. 2 for Pak, 6 for China

8 Subs armed with mix of Nirbhays and Brahmos: 4*4*8 = 128 for a defensive role, sea denial. 2 for Pak, 6 for China


3 Subs armed with N-K-15s: 3*4*3 = 36 missiles for nuke role , 1 for Pak, 2 for China

3 subs armed with N-K-4/5s : 1*4*3 = 18 missiles for nuke role (I hope K-5 is MIRVed), all for China

 

[sayareakd]

^^^^Do we have fuel for that many subs?

 

[Immanuel]

Good question, how much reacter grade uranium would we need for a 83mw reactor on board 30-40 subs with a service life time of 40 years?

 

[dealwithit]

We can generate lot of TONS of uranium and plutonium... but building reactors is quiet costly....

We found best fine quality of Uranium reserves in Andhra pradesh...

 

[natarajan]

wet dreams wrt 40atv

 

[sayareakd]

We can generate lot of TONS of uranium and plutonium... but building reactors is quiet costly....

We found best fine quality of Uranium reserves in Andhra pradesh...

If that is the case why we have seperated civilian and militry reactor as per US nuke deal?

If we had our Uranium reserve sufficient then we would have ask for tech only and not material from west.

 

[dealwithit]

If that is the case why we have seperated civilian and militry reactor as per US nuke deal?

If we had our Uranium reserve sufficient then we would have ask for tech only and not material from west.

Maybe nucleargate... (nuclear scam)

I know this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummalapalle_uranium_mine