Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,308
Likes
11,208
Country flag
Sure idiots will cheer this post as it hits all the right keywords.

Americans or French have never been associated with naval nuclear reactor, and there is no such plan either.
Rubin design bureau (from Russia) helped with difficulties encountered in Arihant naval reactor. It has been matured now.
Rubin OKB is a marine-engineering company that specializes in Submarine-design, it had helped to design the Arihant itself, nothing to do with the reactor. The PWR design/development effort was overseen by Afrikantov OKBM, a subsidiary company of Rosatom.

This is why I say you shouldn't be commenting on defence matters with half-baked knowledge that is not even legitimate, let alone factual.

India does not have a naval reactor suitable for INS Vishal.
Not as of the moment. But we're developing it as we speak. For the carrier and for the future SSBNs and SSNs as well. And yes, Russian agencies are still involved.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
Wow @Gessler, a real Internet warrior! Your expertise in Internet search is legendary.

That's about all. You have no other quality.

What is your education?
 

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,308
Likes
11,208
Country flag
Wow @Gessler, a real Internet warrior! Your expertise in Internet search is legendary.

That's about all. You have no other quality.

What is your education?
A nice way to accept that your facts need extensive re-checking.

It is my legitimate advice to you to stop spreading false information. I'm sure you didn't even know that an agency called Rubin OKB even existed before I mentioned it in my previous posts.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
A nice way to accept that your facts need extensive re-checking.

It is my legitimate advice to you to stop spreading false information. I'm sure you didn't even know that an agency called Rubin OKB even existed before I mentioned it in my previous posts.
Yeah sure! You are my God! I have learnt everything from you.
I was on message boards when you were not even born.
 

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,308
Likes
11,208
Country flag
Yeah sure! You are my God! I have learnt everything from you.
I was on message boards when you were not even born.
Lol, yeah go on trumpeting that horn.

Being almost 3 times my age is hardly a substitute for lacking knowledge of defence matters. If you think age can compensate for knowledge, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
Lol, yeah go on trumpeting that horn.

Being almost 3 times my age is hardly a substitute for lacking knowledge of defence matters. If you think age can compensate for knowledge, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.
You have no knowledge of anything, let alone defence.
Forget it. Goddam the biggest idiot I have seen in my life.
 

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,308
Likes
11,208
Country flag
You have no knowledge of anything, let alone defence.
Forget it. Goddam the biggest idiot I have seen in my life.
Haven't really seen much in life, have you?

Lol, go right ahead and continue living in your delusions, I ain't stopping you. As a Moderator on other forums, I have sent dozens of self-declared know-it-alls like yourself to the dustbin myself after destroying their arguments.

And may I have the pleasure of knowing why you're so bent on derailing the discussion in the thread? See the thread title and look at what you're posting. It's imperivate that when someone like you posts something wrong or ficticious, someone with better knowledge of matter jumps in to correct them. That's a fact of life.

That doesn't mean you have to go on dismissing everything that comes out of mouth because....oh, because I am younger than you! Lol, roadkill.

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad @sayareakd @LETHALFORCE Please delete the off-topic posts if you see fit.
 
Last edited:

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
I shall react strongly to lies and false assertions on this message board.
Admins are free to do whatever they want.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
You mean, false assertions like Rubin OKB helping to design Arihant reactor? :hehe:
Where did you get your info, from your Uncle?
A foreign customer goes through Russian govt to an OKB, not directly to an equipment manufacturer.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,288
Likes
56,242
Country flag
TATA Arm is L1 Bidder for Navy’s Radar Project

Competitors question the offer
Nova Integrated Systems, a subsidiary of TATA Advanced Systems Ltd, has emerged the lowest bidder for the Surface Surveillance Radar (SSR) project of the Indian Navy.
TASL had participated in the indigenous radar procurement programme under the Indian defence procurement guidelines. However, competing companies in the Indian Navy’s tender have been questioning the low bid.
7 Bidders
Seven domestic firms had participated in the June 2013 tender, including Mahindra, Larsen & Toubro and Bharat Electronics.
A total of 31 SSRs and one SSR training simulator are scheduled to be acquired at a cost of over $300 million. As part of the tender, Indian firms partnered with foreign companies to procure technology.
Sukaran Singh, Chief Executive Officer, TASL, said it would be the first private Indian company to undertake final and full assembly of the military radar, and that it was the first procurement by the Defence Ministry under the ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ category of the Defence Procurement Procedure.
[COLoR="BLUE "]Strategic Partnership[/color]
Pointing out that TASL is approaching its vision with a three-fold strategy participation in radar procurement programmes, Singh said the firm has strategic technology partnerships with leading global radar manufacturers and is establishing modern manufacturing and development facilities.
Danish defence major Terma has a strategic
partnership with TASL. Terma’s partnership with TASL developed further after jointly bidding for the SSR programme, as the company moved ahead in the area of Naval Combat Management Systems.
In partnership with TASL, Terma has established a development centre in Noida, for the design and development of Combat Management Systems.
Other Collaborations
Denmark-based Terma is a leader in naval and coastal surveillance radars.
The partnership envisages full transfer of technology.
Terma also has a seven-year-old relationship with Bharat Electronics Limited, and is collaborating in various fields of defence technology.
BEL is the primary integrator and supplier of defence electronics to the armed forces. BEL and Terma cooperate on naval radar technology and aircraft self-protection.
Singh added that Nova has partnered with Terma “to undertake manufacturing, integration and testing on Navy vessels of the proven Scanter radar system, under transfer of technology in India.” Incidentally, Thales Nederland, the Dutch arm of Thales International, and TASL have jointly proposed Smart-L radar, based on Active Electronically Scanned Array, for the Indian Navy
and Indian Air Force.
Source>>
 

Screambowl

Ghanta Senior Member?
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
7,950
Likes
7,908
Country flag
The Akula -II based design you mention is actually a smaller version of Akula (of 5,000 t).
Akula is 30 yr old, a ssn based on barracuda tech will be more advanced and silent. Also what we need main help in is naval reactors, if french or US offer a little under the table help, it will be worth much more.
And this help will never happen. India should rather use its own brain for using theorem in miniaturized reactor.
That will be real deadly game changer.
 

Anupu

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
827
Likes
2,733
Country flag
And this help will never happen. India should rather use its own brain for using theorem in miniaturized reactor.
That will be real deadly game changer.
If..... If is the key word.... Is it eminently likely right now? ... Perhaps No...
 

Superdefender

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
1,207
Likes
1,085
Analysis : India’s Evolving Maritime Security Strategy and Force Posture
Posted on March 20, 2016 by N.R.P



INTRODUCTION
The Indian Navy’s Maritime Security Strategy document 2015 (titled ‘Ensuring Secure Seas: Indian Maritime Security Strategy’) is a precursor of India’s evolving maritime strategic thought and its proposed force posture. Together, they form important spokes in the wheel of New Delhi’s politico-military strategy (or Grand Strategy). Second, the document envisages India adopting a strategy of having a carrier task force as a mobile base, together with sea-based nuclear deterrence. An extension of such an arrangement would involve the Navy’s vision of developing itself as an expeditionary force, which would eventually help India to attain its desired status as a major power in the Indo-Pacific region.



This article is by our guest author Mr Balaji Chandramohan, Visiting Fellow with Future Directions International, Perth .

Analysis
The Maritime Security Strategy 2015 was made public in January this year, before the International Fleet Review in Visakhapatnam. It signalled both the subtle importance of the document itself and also placed naval strategy as a subset of India’s maritime strategy. In a way, this was a shift from the 2007 strategy document, ‘Freedom to Use the Seas: India’s Maritime Military Strategy’. The earlier document focussed predominantly on maritime strategic aspects, including their military dimension, though not explicitly on naval strategy. That subtle shift is important when we consider that earlier versions of the Indian Navy’s publications focussed on diplomatic aspects of the maritime strategy, including naval diplomacy. The security strategy document, however, has focussed more on the hard power aspects, in an effort to signal a robust posture to both its adversaries and allies.



Maritime Strategic Orientation, Geopolitical Perspective and Force Structure
The Ensuring Secure Seas document stresses the importance of controlling both the Sea Lines of Communication and the chokepoints as a part of India’s maritime strategy. This is despite the fact that, to date, India’s politico-military orientation, especially its maritime policy, has predominantly been focussed on expanding its reach in the Indo-Pacific and Asia-Pacific regions (including the western theatre of the Indian Ocean); that expansion, of course, increasing the importance of the Sea Lines of Communication.


The Shivalik-class frigates are India’s first locally built stealth warships.
The proposed variation of this policy to give greater importance to the chokepoints and Sea Lines of Communication reflects the innate variety in India’s maritime strategic thinking, between its geo-political perspective and its external geo-strategic orientation. It also affects India’s maritime force posture internally, including the Navy’s co-operation with the other two services; for example, in acquiring external bases as a part of controlling the Sea Lines of Communication. This also involves, of course, diplomatic manoeuvring with countries such as the United States, Australia, France, Japan and Indonesia, each of which has its own maritime military presence in the Indo-Pacific or wider Asia-Pacific regions.



The proposed variation in approach is important, as the politico-military orientation of India’s Grand Strategy seems to encompass the whole of the Asia-Pacific region as a part of its geo-political perspective. The Indo-Pacific region is included as a subset of the proposed maritime geo-strategic orientation, in line with India’s perceived continental commitments. The idea of having the Indo-Pacific as a part of India’s maritime geo-strategic orientation involves two separate requirements: the need for control of the chokepoints and the necessity of securing command of the sea; together, these would help to achieve the major requirement of keeping the Sea Lines of Communication open.

On that note, we understand that, unlike the Pacific or the Atlantic Oceans, the Indian Ocean is predominantly controlled by maritime powers which have command of the chokepoints. In that context, the Indian maritime security strategy document has identified nine important choke points as a part of India’s maritime security strategy perspective in the Indian Ocean:

  1. The Suez Canal
  2. The Strait of Hormuz
  3. Bab el-Mandeb
  4. The Mozambique Channel
  5. The Cape of Good Hope
  6. The Straits of Malacca and Singapore
  7. The Sunda Strait
  8. The Lombok Strait
  9. the Ombai and Wetar Straits.
The nine chokepoints are divided into five in the western Indian Ocean and four in the eastern, with the force structure of the Eastern Fleet getting the greater level of attention.

On the other hand, when it comes to Sea Lines of Communication, the greater importance is given to the broader Indo-Pacific region (including both the western and eastern theatres of the Indian Ocean), which reflects the geo-political perspective of identifying the primary and secondary areas of interest in India’s overall maritime strategy.

The dual methodology proposed to both secure the chokepoints and gain command of the sea, is interesting and one of the important variations in India’s maritime strategic orientation. Unlike China’s island chain strategy of having a permanent blue-water presence in the whole of the Asia-Pacific as a part of its maritime disposition, India’s planning seems to envisage having command of the sea in the Indo-Pacific, with a sub-policy of controlling the identified chokepoints. This would enable India to co-operate with other maritime powers in the Asia-Pacific as an overall part of its maritime strategic orientation. One similarity with China’s planning will involve the acquisition or use of overseas naval bases, first in the Indo-Pacific and then expanded to the whole of the Asia-Pacific region.

The above position could also be altered if India eventually upgrades its facilities on the strategically-located Andaman and Nicobar Islands and integrates the forces there as a part of its strategic fleet operations. This would reduce India’s need to expand its navy, by increasing the number of available vessels by roughly 40 per cent, from 137 to about 200. By 2027, re-orientation towards a three-fleet blue-water navy with flexible command will be the way forward.

Making that change as a stop-gap arrangement, before India embarks on a three-fleet navy, would greatly increase the range and scope of its existing naval command infrastructure based in the Andamans and Nicobars, which, at present, is the face of India’s engagement with South-East Asia. It would provide greater scope for increasing India’s maritime engagement, using a flexible command option to reach across South-East Asia to the South-West Pacific and, possibly, beyond. So far, India has no permanent military presence in the Pacific, but this could change in the next five years to at least include the South-West Pacific.

In the South Pacific, India will increase its maritime engagement diplomatically, which may extend to having a military presence in one of the Pacific Island countries, probably in Fiji. This would not contradict India’s subtle mixing of its maritime strategy with its politico-military vision of joining an explicitly maritime alliance with those countries wary of Beijing’s maritime expansion, especially towards the “Second Island Chain” running south from Japan to West Papua. On the other hand, India’s efforts towards maritime expansion in the North Pacific may complicate its continental commitments.


INS Vikrant, India’s first indigenously built carrier, will ensure that India remains a 2-carrier navy beyond 2018. It will be based with the Eastern fleet.
To be sure, the above arrangement would enable the Eastern Fleet to undertake both tasks of sea-denial and sea control, with the power-projection and command of the sea resting with the Andaman and Nicobar command. Further, to help achieve favourable fleet operations and sustainable command of the sea, India would need to acquire bases, or access to bases, in the western Indian Ocean, such as in the Seychelles. It will also need to convert its present naval outpost in Lakshadweep into a fully-fledged operational base, with capability for power-projection, sea-denial and command of the sea, especially in relation to Pakistan.


INS Chakra, India’s sole nuclear-powered attack submarine is based with the Eastern fleet. It is mainly used to escort carriers and to keep the incursions by Chinese subs in check.
Increased pressure on its eastern seaboard, however, will push India towards such an arrangement with other countries in South-East Asia and, perhaps, beyond to the South-West Pacific. Such an arrangement – if it were to eventuate – would include a ring of bases around the Indian Ocean, from the Cape of Good Hope to Mozambique, up to Mombasa and across to the Maldives, Trincomalee and Penang. If India had to further increase its operational reach, it might then extend the eastern and western chokepoints of the Indian Ocean and maybe even reach towards the islands of the South-West Pacific.

In that context, the Indian Navy has started operating its largest naval base in Karwar, which will help to secure command of its western Indian Ocean seaboard and the Indo-Pacific region more generally. The addition of the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya and over 30 support ships to that naval base, means that India is concentrating both on expanding its reach in the eastern part of the Indian Ocean and also doing the required work to get command of the sea and the capability for sea-denial and seaborne strikes against Pakistan in the western Indian Ocean.

India’s strategy for the Indo-Pacific region is therefore different to the pivot approach of the US, for instance, but it does envisage co-operation with the pivot strategy in the eastern part of the Indian Ocean, with a view to checking an increase in the ambitions of the Pakistani Navy. Overall, this strategy may involve having a permanent blue-water naval presence in both the western and eastern theatres of the Indian Ocean. Such a strategy may involve India co-operating with other countries which have military assets in the Indian Ocean, such as Australia, Indonesia, Iran, France and the United Kingdom. This would require more port visits and co-operation on the high seas.

On the other hand, the strategy document stresses the importance of force projection as a part of controlling the Sea Lines of Communication, which we understand will be achieved through the deployment of aircraft carriers. India’s ultimate ambition will be eventually to establish a five-carrier fleet, comprising a mix of large and small carriers, doing full justice to its power-projection capabilities. For example, India plans to deploy the locally-built aircraft carrier INS Vishal as a part of the power-projection capabilities envisaged in the security strategy document.

Four other basic issues were identified in the document as a part of its force projection policy: Maritime Manoeuvre, Maritime Strike, SLOC interdiction and amphibious operations.


The P8I is an extremely sophisticated and long range patrol aircraft used for a variety of tasks ranging form ASW to ground maping to airborne command and control. The Indian Navy has 8 aircraft at present and will order 4 more.
Interestingly, the security strategy document also mentioned the importance of sea control and sea denial as a part of operational requirements. We understand that, predominantly, the sea control and sea denial strategies are variations of the Alfred Thayer Mahan and Julian Corbett theories of maritime strategy. Further, as envisaged by the document, as a part of seeking to gain sea control, co-ordinated efforts will be made in conjunction with the other services. This reflects, in part, India’s maritime strategic thinking, which requires maritime preponderance for overall military operations.



India’s maritime sea denial is predominantly oriented towards the importance of denying China’s South China Sea Fleet an operational domain in the Indian Ocean. Sea control strategy is oriented towards establishing the Indian Navy’s maritime predominance in the Indo-Pacific region and beyond in conjunction with a range of countries, including Indonesia, Australia, Vietnam and the United States.

Maritime Strategy and Nuclear Deterrence
As India has a credible minimum deterrence and a no-first use policy as the two central principles of its nuclear policy, its maritime imperative, as set out in the maritime security strategy document, is interesting. Here, the greatest importance is given to submarines carrying ballistic missiles (SSBNs) as a part of credible nuclear deterrence against its nuclear-armed rivals, Pakistan and China.


INS Arihant. This submarine is ready for induction and it’s successor, Aridhaman is said to be ready for launch
Sea-based nuclear deterrence is one of the important tenets of the 2015 maritime security strategy document and a variation from the 2007 document. INS Arihant (now fully operational) and INS Aridhaman will provide the effective nuclear deterrence for such an arrangement. A further ambitious project will include developing six new fleets of nuclear submarines. A force level of three to five SSBNs, six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) and 20 diesel-electric submarines (SSKs) is required for the Indian Navy to fulfil its mandate of achieving an effective blue-water navy. If the nuclear submarines provide the resources for sea-denial and sea-attack options, then increasing the force of aircraft carriers would further improve India’s capability to achieve command of the sea and control of the chokepoints.


India’s first Scorpene, INS Kalvari is undergoing sea trials. 5 more subs of this class will be commissioned by 2020.
Internally, the ambitious posture of the Indian Navy, with its undersea nuclear deterrence capability, means that it serves as a tool to allow the other two services to re-arrange their existing command structures, including the Strategic Forces Command, in an effort to collectively present a credible level of nuclear deterrence vis-a-vis both Pakistan and China. Importantly, as highlighted in the security strategy document, the stature of the Indian Navy has risen, especially since the introduction of its nuclear submarine capability. This provides an essential element in the structuring of forces against continental and maritime threats from both Pakistan and China.

In conclusion, the Ensuring Secure Seas maritime security strategy signals an important paradigm in India’s maritime thinking. The central focus is on improving its strategic outreach in the Asia-Pacific region, while also securing its maritime flank in the Indo-Pacific region. This would be done in co-operation with other maritime powers, so sharing collectively in their efforts to keep the Sea Lines of Communication open.

This article was originally published as a research paper by the author for Future Directions International (FDI).

Source Link: http://defencyclopedia.com/2016/03/...maritime-security-strategy-and-force-posture/
 

Panjab47

सर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट्टादेवकल्पादृढ़व्रता|੧੫|
Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
269
Likes
211
Remember article from 4-5 years back that said 40% chinese navy could destroy 1 US CBG.

What is ratio today for India & how does f22 affect this & the china number.

@Kunal Biswas any info?
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
I think aircraft carriers have a specific purpose of spearheading an expeditionary force. Safety of shipping can be ensured by frigate class ships.

If IN wants to concentrate on expeditionary warfare, then it would have to consider all elements of it - like support and supply ships, a large transport aircraft fleet, and overseas fighter bases to protect the fleet.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
India does not need aircraft carriers for attacking port facilities in immediate neighbourhood.

In the east, Malaysia and Indonesia are unlikely to go to war with India.
So a Carrier has meaning towards African coast. Middle East is ruled out as Americans have total dominance there.

Why not set up bases in friendly African countries. Mauritius is ready. Kenya is ready.

Putting even 10 Su-30 in Mauritius will make a huge difference in maritime security in a large area that is actually important to India.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
I think IN is putting too much faith in aircraft carrier, which can backfire in a real crisis.

It is similar to Indian Kings putting too much resources in raising war elephants, and ignoring horses.

In Vedic literature, a horse is always considered vehicle of war. Elephants were used to carry materiel.

Carrier is like an elephant. You put too much resources into it, you end up ignoring the smaller combatants which actually fight the war.

A 65000T Carrier with EMALS and everything at 5B dollars? Somebody is day dreaming. Vikrant will cost India between 3-4B dollars, which is just 40000T and is extremely simple compared to what IN wants now.
 
Last edited:

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,288
Likes
56,242
Country flag
Humbly, no troll intended. :namaste:
India does not need aircraft carriers for attacking port facilities in immediate neighbourhood.
If India had to fight only neighbors, it won't have reached today's military level.
It's for power projection. Indian Navy has started looking at P23000E for Pur 4th carrier or second super carrier. :biggrin2:
There could 5 CBGs in next 15-20 years. :peace:
In the east, Malaysia and Indonesia are unlikely to go to war with India.
They are our trade partners.
Our might can provide security to them.
Moreover, China is coming.
We need to keep an eye on our empire. :D
So a Carrier has meaning towards African coast. Middle East is ruled out as Americans have total dominance there.
India has presence in Kazakhstan, Iran, UAE and now going for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
What made you think India won't challenge US hegemony?
Please, read the last post in Indo-China relations thread in Foreign Relations section.
Why not set up bases in friendly African countries. Mauritius is ready. Kenya is ready.
India has in Kazakhstan and Nigeria and now setting up in Seychelles.
Will set up in Mauritius in near future,
But I don't know anything about Kenya. Wish they set up there.
Putting even 10 Su-30 in Mauritius will make a huge difference in maritime security in a large area that is actually important to India.
Looks that I will have to create a thread for Indian Overseas Military bases for satisfying curiosity of other members.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
Humbly, no troll intended. :namaste:

If India had to fight only neighbors, it won't have reached today's military level.
It's for power projection. Indian Navy has started looking at P23000E for Pur 4th carrier or second super carrier. :biggrin2:
There could 5 CBGs in next 15-20 years. :peace:

They are our trade partners.
Our might can provide security to them.
Moreover, China is coming.
We need to keep an eye on our empire. :D

India has presence in Kazakhstan, Iran, UAE and now going for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
What made you think India won't challenge US hegemony?
Please, read the last post in Indo-China relations thread in Foreign Relations section.

India has in Kazakhstan and Nigeria and now setting up in Seychelles.
Will set up in Mauritius in near future,
But I don't know anything about Kenya. Wish they set up there.

Looks that I will have to create a thread for Indian Overseas Military bases for satisfying curiosity of other members.
You are moving too fast.

I have said before and I repeat again - political goals will be set by civilian leadership and NOT military leadership.

If civilian leadership really wants to fight a war with China, then it MUST START BUILDING HUGE BUNKERS in all major cities RIGHT NOW.

You are brainwashed that India can fight a naval war in isolation, and nothing else will happen.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top