Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Gessler]

I'm not wrong, It may be because 1st SSN can be based on Akula-II design, I know they have clear strategy but what is wrong in that?
Even some people are saying than Aridaman has more displacement than Arihant, SSN can't be based on Aridaman?

Aridhaman & the one remaining SSBN in the Arihant-class will all have the same size, displacement and no. of missile silos. The reactor & it's configuration will also be the same across all 3 vessels.

Such claims are made by people who basically don't know what a "class" of ships means.

 

[abingdonboy]

I'm not wrong, It may be because 1st SSN can be based on Akula-II design, I know they have clear strategy but what is wrong in that?
Even some people are saying than Aridaman has more displacement than Arihant, SSN can't be based on Aridaman?

Let's see, the Barracuda hull (around 5,000 tons) would be a logical first step for in house SSNs. SSBNs are different to SSNs in the sense that they can be oversized with little worry about the PWR output but SSNs are meant to be agile and powerful in the water able to chase enemies and keep up with CBG and thus TWR is important. Whilst India can likely build 7-10,000 SSBNs as of now, it may not be able to build 10,000 ton SSNs because of where the PWR development is as of now.

Again, the Barracuda is a very good place to start- it is easily one of the most deadly and advanced subs ever created and DCNS is an industry leader.

 

[Superdefender]

SSNs have to keep up with the nuc AC. That's why it needs a more powerful reactor which will help it to move fast. Can India make its maiden SSN with 8,000tn displacement, still a powerful reactor to sail fast forward?

 

[abingdonboy]

SSNs have to keep up with the nuc AC. That's why it needs a more powerful reactor which will help it to move fast. Can India make its maiden SSN with 8,000tn displacement, still a powerful reactor to sail fast forward?

Probably best to not be over ambitious for a first of type project. A 5,000 ton SSN seems like a perfect starting point.

 

[Anupu]

Let's see, the Barracuda hull (around 5,000 tons) would be a logical first step for in house SSNs. SSBNs are different to SSNs in the sense that they can be oversized with little worry about the PWR output but SSNs are meant to be agile and powerful in the water able to chase enemies and keep up with CBG and thus TWR is important. Whilst India can likely build 7-10,000 SSBNs as of now, it may not be able to build 10,000 ton SSNs because of where the PWR development is as of now.

Again, the Barracuda is a very good place to start- it is easily one of the most deadly and advanced subs ever created and DCNS is an industry leader.

There was a guy in the comments Biswajeet at that blog, he seems to suggest that Indian navy is zeroing in on Scorpene based SSN, with all electric propulsion by Alstom and powered by a PWR.
Either

• one they could have based the new design on a enlarged Scorpene, with stealthy features
• or Barracuda is still on table

Apparently french are also helping brazil with a ssn based on Scorpene. French also seems to be helping with a new 190 MW reactor, according to the discussion.

 

[abingdonboy]

There was a guy in the comments Biswajeet at that blog, he seems to suggest that Indian navy is zeroing in on Scorpene based SSN, with all electric propulsion by Alstom and powered by a PWR.
Either

• one they could have based the new design on a enlarged Scorpene, with stealthy features
• or Barracuda is still on table

Apparently french are also helping brazil with a ssn based on Scorpene.

Interesting, I still think the Barracuda is the more logical option though.

 

[Gessler]

There was a guy in the comments Biswajeet at that blog, he seems to suggest that Indian navy is zeroing in on Scorpene based SSN, with all electric propulsion by Alstom and powered by a PWR.
Either

• one they could have based the new design on a enlarged Scorpene, with stealthy features
• or Barracuda is still on table

Apparently french are also helping brazil with a ssn based on Scorpene. French also seems to be helping with a new 190 MW reactor, according to the discussion.

Yes, the Brazilian SSN is believed to be based on the Scorpene hull (although tech is likely derived from Barracuda-class, which is the successor to Rubis-class).

Don't know how official this this, but look at the comparison with normal Scorpene on the top-right here :

 

[Anupu]

Interesting, I still think the Barracuda is the more logical option though.

Still muddy waters I think. If they are helping with the life extension of BARC's 190 MW reactor, I doubt french would have any problem sharing the hull of Barracuda, I don't know either IN may decide to go for Scorpene as we would have some experience of operating and manufacturing them. I don't know at this point we are entering a realm of speculation.

 

[Anupu]

Yes, the Brazilian SSN is believed to be based on the Scorpene hull (although tech is likely derived from Barracuda-class, which is the successor to Rubis-class).

Don't know how official this this, but look at the comparison with normal Scorpene on the top-right here :

Not a bad idea either, specially if we get french and US help for our reactors.

Edit: This guy is good, will keep an eye out on his forum from now onwards. Details of Brazilian SSN

 

[Gessler]

Still muddy waters I think. If they are helping with the life extension of BARC's 190 MW reactor, I doubt french would have any problem sharing the hull of Barracuda, I don't know either IN may decide to go for Scorpene as we would have some experience of operating and manufacturing them. I don't know at this point we are entering a realm of speculation.

I'm not very sure about French assistance in PWR. About US, too. Even with the IAC-2 carrier, only thing we're looking to get from US is EMALS, nothing about the reactor. There was a lot of misreporting & jumping of the gun by mediapersons.

I was hoping for the Barracuda because it comes with some advanced techs like pump-jet propulsion, etc. But there's no reason why such tech cannot be implemented on a Scorpene-based hull, either. If we want it, ofcourse.

 

[Anupu]

I'm not very sure about French assistance in PWR. About US, too. Even with the IAC-2 carrier, only thing we're looking to get from US is EMALS, nothing about the reactor. There was a lot of misreporting & jumping of the gun by mediapersons.

I was hoping for the Barracuda because it comes with some advanced techs like pump-jet propulsion, etc. But there's no reason why such tech cannot be implemented on a Scorpene-based hull, either. If we want it, ofcourse.

Yeah, you are right it's very speculative right now.
But let's just think for a moment. This is what I have managed to piece together.
India is apparently close to a 190 MW reactor, I remember seeing a youtube video about it too - by a research scholar the problem is it's life is only around 8-9 years. Which mean any sub or carrier using it will require extensive refits around the same time. French have helped us with the Arihant reactor and they along with americans indirectly plan to help us with extending it's life to 15 years.

In process it insures the Vishal / IAC2, a success and they get to push India away from Russian dependence.

It might just make sense, might ....

 

[MKM]

Aridhaman & the one remaining SSBN in the Arihant-class will all have the same size, displacement and no. of missile silos. The reactor & it's configuration will also be the same across all 3 vessels.

Such claims are made by people who basically don't know what a "class" of ships means.

At least wikipedia claims that Aridaman will carry twice number of missile than Arihant, yes there is class but that doesn't rule about sub class.

 

[Anupu]

At least wikipedia claims that Aridaman will carry twice number of missile than Arihant, yes there is class but that doesn't rule about sub class.

Wikipedia isn't always reliable [can be edited by anyone], one hint, the article didn't have any citation when it was said that aridhaman will have a better reactor, also the link given to refer to a increase in number of missile to 24 is this article, which states all three subs will host 12 K-15 sagarika missiles.

Wiki's are that's why bad sources, look up references given in them, they are better.

 

[Anupu]

Yeah, you are right it's very speculative right now.
But let's just think for a moment. This is what I have managed to piece together.
India is apparently close to a 190 MW reactor, I remember seeing a youtube video about it too - by a research scholar the problem is it's life is only around 8-9 years. Which mean any sub or carrier using it will require extensive refits around the same time. French have helped us with the Arihant reactor and they along with americans indirectly plan to help us with extending it's life to 15 years.

In process it insures the Vishal / IAC2, a success and they get to push India away from Russian dependence.

It might just make sense, might ....

@warrior monk What do you think?

 

[MKM]

Wikipedia isn't always reliable [can be edited by anyone], one hint, the article didn't have any citation when it was said that aridhaman will have a better reactor, also the link given to refer to a increase in number of missile to 24 is this article, which states all three subs will host 12 K-15 sagarika missiles.

Wiki's are that's why bad sources, look up references given in them, they are better.

I know that & I always look for references but I heard many times, SSN based on Barracuda or Arihant is a good but I had in mind IN may look for Akula-II design.

 

[Anupu]

I know that & I always look for references but I heard many times, SSN based on Barracuda or Arihant is a good but I had in mind IN may look for Akula-II design.

The Akula -II based design you mention is actually a smaller version of Akula (of 5,000 t).
Akula is 30 yr old, a ssn based on barracuda tech will be more advanced and silent. Also what we need main help in is naval reactors, if french or US offer a little under the table help, it will be worth much more.

 

[warrior monk]

The future SSN of India will follow the Arihant design with further modification in hull coatings, improved propeller design its speed , shaft design , improving the pumps , motors , Special High Yield steel alloys in hull (we currently use HY-80 in Arihant which can operate upto 80000 psi) etc reducing the SL spectrum and Cavitation noise .
We don't need Barracuda or anything else just build on what we already have . Except DCNS SYCOBS combat management system and pump jet propulsion we don't need anything else from French . Even their reactor is inferior to current 4th gen Russian reactors . If Russians help us with it then we are good to go.

 

[Gessler]

Addtionally the IN is inducting OPVs that they will use for constabulary duties whilst their large capital vessels engage in power projection away from Indian shores.

Something here tells me that you read/used to read FORCE magazine. Am I right?

 

[abingdonboy]

Something here tells me that you read/used to read FORCE magazine. Am I right?

I've heard of it but I can't say I've ever read a copy.

 

[garg_bharat]

Yeah, you are right it's very speculative right now.
But let's just think for a moment. This is what I have managed to piece together.
India is apparently close to a 190 MW reactor, I remember seeing a youtube video about it too - by a research scholar the problem is it's life is only around 8-9 years. Which mean any sub or carrier using it will require extensive refits around the same time. French have helped us with the Arihant reactor and they along with americans indirectly plan to help us with extending it's life to 15 years.

In process it insures the Vishal / IAC2, a success and they get to push India away from Russian dependence.

It might just make sense, might ....

Sure idiots will cheer this post as it hits all the right keywords.

Americans or French have never been associated with naval nuclear reactor, and there is no such plan either.
Rubin design bureau (from Russia) helped with difficulties encountered in Arihant naval reactor. It has been matured now. Further development is local effort.

India does not have a naval reactor suitable for INS Vishal.