Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Vamsi]

Last 50 posts on this thread lamenting consistently on the fact that why a $3T economy is unable to compete with economies much larger than itself by launching a warship every weekend.

It is not like IN has stopped building ships, we will be inducting 14 frontline warships + few subs in next 4 years, but I guess that is not a lot for country with a $3-4 T economy according to some of the posters here.

Should I tell the main reason why despite being a $3.5 trillion dollar economy we are unable to compete with others....

....the answer lies in freebies....we are spending f**king ₹3.5 lac crores on freebies & this is just by central govt

 

[jai jaganath]

Should I tell the main reason why despite being a $3.5 trillion dollar economy we are unable to compete with others....

....the answer lies in freebies....we are spending f**king ₹3.5 lac crores on freebies & this is just by central govt

Ok
I agree
But think even if we give armed forces huge amt of rupees will our armed forces and mod be able to decide and buy
Do they have intelligence to place order at right time
Money is a very important factor
But in our few factors are more worse than money allocation i.e efficiency in decision making, basic common sense, timing sense and threat perception
Just see the level at which porkis are modernizing yes they gave sugar daddies but no one can question their efficiency when it come to fight against India

 

[Love Charger]

Mast sapna hai bhai
I can atleast bet on my life that even your great grandchildren can only dream of it but can't see in reality
Sorry if I am being offensive

Koi offensive na bhai ji , sach hi to bola hai aapne .
Galt kya bola hai

 

[Heat]

Yes because our enemy is basically launching a new warship every week or month and inducting 150-200 fighters a year, launches 50 space rockets a year and has built 2 carriers and is building another one.

All of this because they have a robust economy to boot. Cause and effect my friend. One follows another.

Our defense expenditure is directly linked to our size of economy. As simple as that.

 

[ezsasa]

we are talking about four military installations spread across 450 km in length.
and we can assume they can take out anything in 500 km radius from each of these bases, without counting air assets.

Because failure of a Blue Water Navy to destroy the enemy fleet on the high seas is what exposes the coastline of a nation to threats in the first place. No matter where our INS Vishal CSG will be, if its shadowing and holding back a PLAN fleet, it is in effect defending this island chain. Andaman and Nicobar are a very lucrative target for PLAN otherwise.

Think about it like this: why was Iwo Jima captured? Because the IJN failed to defeat USN. Once USN fleet surrounded Iwo Jima, it was only a matter of when not if for the defenders of the island.

 

[ezsasa]

Without a naval supply line to support any island it would fall eventually.
Granted that we are not able to deploy ships for defending the island which is highly unlikely but still.

yes, if we ramp up the complexity in the scenario, there will be a way to overwhelm the region.

here the basic question, is whether A&N command needs CBG to defend it.

 

[Love Charger]

yes, if we ramp up the complexity in the scenario, there will be a way to overwhelm the region.

here the basic question, is whether A&N command needs CBG to defend it.

If i were a naval planner with authority to carry out my will , I would have envisioned 3 cbg
No 1) for arabian sea and Gulf of aden , mostly to mount offensive operations against pakistan and enforce a blockade against them.
2) for the southern indian ocean, basically a auxiliary group , which is of equal strength to group 1 but in a event of 2 front naval war will support group 1 or group 3 .
3) the strongest cbg , if we ever get ins vishal, this group will get it. with best ships and largest in tonnage mostly to choke up the entry point of indian ocean, aka strait of malcca , and defend andamans.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Also a thing or two about future development.

Currently we have 40+ ships on order.
The next 5 years as the economy expand and our budgets increase we may sign deal for 20+ more on top of it. No of order will keep increasing every year.

 

[Love Charger]

Also a thing or two about future development.

Currently we have 40+ ships on order.
The next 5 years as the economy expand and our budgets increase we may sign deal for 20+ more on top of it. No of order will keep increasing every year.

The strongest cbg should be near andaman itself.
Fuck djibouti and sheit and fook your dream invasion of diego garcia we , need to choke up the Chinese in Strait of malacca itself

 

[ezsasa]

yes, if we ramp up the complexity in the scenario, there will be a way to overwhelm the region.

here the basic question, is whether A&N command needs CBG to defend it.

if we are into increasing the complexity of scenarios, one can even think of a scenario where chini will attack from north from south china ( a few hundred km away from myanmar border) using BMs, avoiding naval exposure from the south in the initial attack.

many scenarios possible.

 

[Suryavanshi]

yes, if we ramp up the complexity in the scenario, there will be a way to overwhelm the region.

here the basic question, is whether A&N command needs CBG to defend it.

CBG is for overwhelming your enemy.
Navy vs Navy is hard enigh add naval group that can deploy fighter jet is whole another headache.

AC forces the Pakis to be on a defensive if they have Brains.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

we are talking about four military installations spread across 450 km in length.
and we can assume they can take out anything in 500 km radius from each of these bases, without counting air assets.
View attachment 171723

Take out with what ammunition when its all expended and the supply lines from the mainland are cut because the Indian fleet was sunk? We say fighters and missiles from the islands make them an unsinkable carrier but this unsinkable carrier can't maneuver and the worst of all, its unsinkability is a liability, because once they capture it, they can use it against us.
Any increment to the blue water fleet of Navy is a step up in the defence of these islands because these will be the first land targets of PLAN. And why a carrier specifically is very important is because a carrier is what allows ships to operate out of reach of land-based air cover. Otherwise, no Naval fleet can hope to operate without a carrier against an opponent that has a carrier or a land based air cover. If we want to utilize choke points and naval maneuver effectively, we need a fleet that isn't tied to the shores i.e. we need a carrier.

Another factor to consider, these islands don't have marines or large Indian Army formations to defend it. Other than the 91st Infantry Brigade no other Army formation is tasked with amphibious warfare duties. This needs to change.

yes, if we ramp up the complexity in the scenario, there will be a way to overwhelm the region.

here the basic question, is whether A&N command needs CBG to defend it.

Do keep in mind, I am not saying that a carrier is neccessary to be stationed near the islands to defend it. Carriers have airfields so yeah, that way you don't need them. I am saying in the context that strategically, if you got a stronger carrier fleet, your coastline is safer.

If i were a naval planner with authority to carry out my will , I would have envisioned 3 cbg
No 1) for arabian sea and Gulf of aden , mostly to mount offensive operations against pakistan and enforce a blockade against them.
2) for the southern indian ocean, basically a auxiliary group , which is of equal strength to group 1 but in a event of 2 front naval war will support group 1 or group 3 .
3) the strongest cbg , if we ever get ins vishal, this group will get it. with best ships and largest in tonnage mostly to choke up the entry point of indian ocean, aka strait of malcca , and defend andamans.

For that you'd need 5 carriers. Which is the original plan of the Indian Navy: 3 carriers deployed and 2 in dock at all times.

 

[Love Charger]

CBG is for overwhelming your enemy.
Navy vs Navy is hard enigh ad naval group that can deploy fighter jet is whole another headache.

AC forces the Pakis to be on a defensive if they have Brains.

Which they don't have. Hence they will ve slaughtered

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

The strongest cbg should be near andaman itself.
Fuck djibouti and sheit and fook your dream invasion of diego garcia we , need to choke up the Chinese in Strait of malacca itself

Better, send that CBG forward and try and take out the Chinese fleet's carrier (even disturbing it will do). If you can take out the Chinese carriers in war, the Andaman and Nicobar islands will be able to defend themselves almost indefinitely.

 

[Love Charger]

Better, send that CBG forward and try and take out the Chinese fleet's carrier (even disturbing it will do). If you can take out the Chinese carriers in war, the Andaman and Nicobar islands will be able to defend themselves almost indefinitely.

If iwere a planner , I would have sanctioned 3 more vikrant type ships .
We need carriers and we need numbers so we go royal navy way during cold war and ww2 .
We get 4 vikrant types and 1 vikramaditya to remain in the dockyard as its a marial ship anyway

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

If iwere a planner , I would have sanctioned 3 more vikrant type ships .
We need carriers and we need numbers so we go royal navy way during cold war and ww2 .
We get 4 vikrant types and 1 vikramaditya to remain in the dockyard as its a marial ship anyway

But we don't need that many just yet. Remember, the Chinese likely won't have enough carriers to spare one for Indian Ocean sorties anytime before 2035. And no other competition of ours in IOR even has carriers. So having just two carriers operational at all times: one for superiority over Pak fleet and the other for superiority over any PLAN surface action groups is all we need till around 2035. That is we only need three carriers for now.

 

[Suryavanshi]

and fook your dream invasion of diego garcia

How do you want to achieve Supremacy in the Indian ocean then.
Another Super Power has their claws in our backyard, have you ever heard of this before? Yes it did happen when Cuba Housed Soviet Missiles, and you know how much drama that created.
If we claim supremacy in Indian Ocean than we should not tolerate another Suoerpower base in this region.
America goes as far as to threaten China if they Lay hands on Guam while having bases around the globe.
And here we have you dreaming of becoming Chola 2.0 with enemies base in our backyard, we will be Chuha 2.0 at this rate.

The existence of Diegei Garcia is the sign of our Pajeetery, incompetence and weaknesses of character.
We have no means of challenging Murica and NATO if we do make up our mind the pajeets will tell you.
>muh 4 lakh h1b pajeet slaves.
>muh NATO will take our arse.
>mub UN
>muh Trade.
>muh Critical Tech.

the island will stay as a symbol of dependence upon the west and the white race.
I will come back and laugh at all you folks if even after 50 years there's still no Indian Carrier stationed in Diego Garcia given that the island does not sink.

Pajeets throughout India dream of being the biggest mothafucka In town without getting into any conflict.
Pathetic.

 

[Love Charger]

How do you want to achieve Supremacy in the Indian ocean then.
Another Super Power has their claws in our backyard, have you ever heard of this before? Yes it did happen when Cuba Housed Soviet Missiles, and you know how much drama that created.
If we claim supremacy in Indian Ocean than we should not tolerate another Suoerpower base in this region.
America goes as far as to threaten China if they Lay hands on Guam while having bases around the globe.
And here we have you dreaming of becoming Chola 2.0 with enemies base in our backyard, we will be Chuha 2.0 at this rate.

The existence of Diegei Garcia is the sign of our Pajeetery, incompetence and weaknesses of character.
We have no means of challenging Murica and NATO if we do make up our mind the pajeets will tell you.
>muh 4 lakh h1b pajeet slaves.
>muh NATO will take our arse.
>mub UN
>muh Trade.
>muh Critical Tech.

the island will stay as a symbol of dependence upon the west and the white race.
I will come back and laugh at all you folks if even after 50 years there's still no Indian Carrier stationed in Diego Garcia given that the island does not sink.

Pajeets throughout India dream of being the biggest mothafucka In town without getting into any conflict.
Pathetic.

For that we need even bigger navy , I don't want india to end like imperial Japan.
Yesterday , I said in my night dream , I want us to be more powerful than samsung Korea and anime land navies .
Tbf even their navies can challenge us one on one , Pehle China to sambhal jaaye. I have faith that in catching upto chin navy we will surpass those pesky east asiam nations own its own and finally threaten America itself.
My dream is complete indian sway from bab al mandab to Strait of malacca but for now its. A dream

 

[Blademaster]

If iwere a planner , I would have sanctioned 3 more vikrant type ships .
We need carriers and we need numbers so we go royal navy way during cold war and ww2 .
We get 4 vikrant types and 1 vikramaditya to remain in the dockyard as its a marial ship anyway

What planes can we use on the Vikrant types? Mig-29k is next to useless. F-18SH is only marginally better and can only provide fleet defense, not offensive. To project that kind of power we either need to get F-35Bs or build carriers with catapult so we can gain offensive power.

 

[Blademaster]

The more I look into this carrier thing and the planes used, the more I’m convinced that we need to go for a carrier with a catapult or develop a VTOL plane capable of performing offensive roles with decent defensive capabilities. Otherwise it’s just a waste of money and resources that could have been better used in buying more P-8Is, Sea Guardians, submarines, destroyers frigates and corvettes. Even supply ships and LHD ships would be better than building another IAC-1. That’s the conclusion that the late CDS Rawat came to. He earlier realized that there was no way for India to finance 3 CBGs especially the catapult version given other defense needs that India had to fulfill.