Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Okabe Rintarou]

I'm not 100% sure if that refers to LR-MFR...LR-MFR is very likely to be a scalable, our NGCs & P-17B/NGF will need an MFR & MF-STAR is not an option, you can draw your own conclusion for LR-MFR.

True, it will be have RMAs like the AMDR, so it will likely be scalable. But LR-MFR is the S-band component of it, right? Similar to the American SPY-6. (Although not sure if LR-MFR is GaN).
But the second band, i.e. the X-band component of it is yet to break cover, so maybe its this new X-band radar they are developing for VL-SRSAM. Similar to American NGSSR.

TPCR states "Dual Band Radar" so its got to be two separate radars (S-band LR-MFR and X-band VL-SRSAM's radar) integrated by the CMS, right? At least that is the conclusion I am drawing.
______________________________________________________________________________________


BTW, does anyone know if the American NGSSR is the FXR program winner or not and why SPY-3 is not being considered for that role.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Nah. We are developing radars for the next gen ships, LR-MFR is already being tested on INS Anvesha. Now this news of X-band radar, which was actually mentioned in the Indian Navy's TPCR back in 2018. Also, if I remember right, there was some news of a new L-band radar for Navy being worked on by DRDO.
.
Apart from that, look at radars like conformal radars for QRSAM, Akash NG, Arudhra, HPR, Netra (AEW&CS), NETRA (ISRO), etc. Apart from that look at the numerous rf missile seekers. India's radar reportiere is too diverse to simply call it as "imported and rebranded". Check out the thread "India's AESA radars dreams to reality" thread for a longer list.

If I am not wrong, INS Dhruv also carries indigenously developed X-band and S-band AESA radars.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Nah. We are developing radars for the next gen ships, LR-MFR is already being tested on INS Anvesha. Now this news of X-band radar, which was actually mentioned in the Indian Navy's TPCR back in 2018. Also, if I remember right, there was some news of a new L-band radar for Navy being worked on by DRDO.
.
Apart from that, look at radars like conformal radars for QRSAM, Akash NG, Arudhra, HPR, Netra (AEW&CS), NETRA (ISRO), etc. Apart from that look at the numerous rf missile seekers. India's radar reportiere is too diverse to simply call it as "imported and rebranded". Check out the thread "India's AESA radars dreams to reality" thread for a longer list.

This makes sense, my feeling that we are pretty ground up (even though computing elements are not indigenous but we may have some capability at 65 to 90 nm capability) in non-ship based radars, mostly strike/AD missiles. Naval radars come with other challenges and probably takes time, hope the need to import goes away. Software alone won't do the job without corresponding indigenous hardware to stay in the constant "one up" game in radars.

 

[omaebakabaka]

No. The 60m wide dry dock can build an aircraft carrier with a flight deck of 74-78m. Beam of the hull isn't going to be 60m, R Ford is around 41-43m at waterline, QEC - ~39m. IAC-1 is in early 30s, built in a 44-45m wide dry dock with a flight deck that is 62m wide. It depends on the hull form and how far away the cranes are.

This makes sense but IAC-1 beam is listed as 62m as opposed to flight deck width. Perhaps its implied.

 

[omaebakabaka]

だが男だ

何で

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

何で

LOL. That is totally OT but here:-

Spoiler: The context

 

[flanker99]

some good news.

India's MDL Details Impending Deliveries, Confirms Plans For Project-17B Frigates

MDL stated to investors in August that the Navy is considering a follow-on order of Project-17A frigates, confirming an Overt Defense scoop in July.

www.overtdefense.com

 

[flanker99]

 

[Adm Kenobi]

some good news.

India's MDL Details Impending Deliveries, Confirms Plans For Project-17B Frigates

MDL stated to investors in August that the Navy is considering a follow-on order of Project-17A frigates, confirming an Overt Defense scoop in July.

www.overtdefense.com

Some more numbers -

Likelihood that a repeat order of 7 P-17A might be given, will cost around 20-30% more than the current ones under construction. Navy had been contemplating ordering a couple of P-17A repeat (from MDL).
MDL's third P-17A to be launched on 11th September 2022.
RFP for 8 NGC to be released in '6-8 months', & shipyards will have ~10 months to respond & order to be placed around 2.5-3 years going forward from 'now'.
MDL has also qualified for bidding in the LPD project

 

[Vamsi]

some good news.

India's MDL Details Impending Deliveries, Confirms Plans For Project-17B Frigates

MDL stated to investors in August that the Navy is considering a follow-on order of Project-17A frigates, confirming an Overt Defense scoop in July.

www.overtdefense.com

So, these P-17B frigates are different from NGF ??

 

[Vamsi]

I'm not 100% sure if that refers to LR-MFR...LR-MFR is very likely to be a scalable, our NGCs & P-17B/NGF will need an MFR & MF-STAR is not an option, you can draw your own conclusion for LR-MFR.

So, this LR-MFR, will it be mounted on superstructure like in Arleigh-burke class or mast mounted like in P-15A/15B/17A ?

 

[Adm Kenobi]

So, this LR-MFR, will it be mounted on superstructure like in Arleigh-burke class or mast mounted like in P-15A/15B/17A ?

It would be extremely difficult to mount a large array at such height (like in P15A/B/17A), but we'll have to wait and see for ourselves on how it looks.

So, these P-17B frigates are different from NGF ??

As of now, they are different, & there has to be something after the repeat order => NGF
'Frigates P-17 B (R/o Project 17A Ships)
&
'Next Generation Frigates'

Have been mentioned separately, in a document earlier this year.

 

[binayak95]

It would be extremely difficult to mount a large array at such height (like in P15A/B/17A), but we'll have to wait and see for ourselves on how it looks.

As of now, they are different, & there has to be something after the repeat order => NGF
'Frigates P-17 B (R/o Project 17A Ships)
&
'Next Generation Frigates'

Have been mentioned separately, in a document earlier this year.

Really confusing the way the news is coming out, and the IN isnt making any official statements yet either.

Either way, more PSCs are always a good thing.

Lets see what I can digup.

 

[anirban8]

So, these P-17B frigates are different from NGF ??

Seems like a follow on of nilgiri but this is something which is not confirmed right???

 

[binayak95]

Defence Decode® on Twitter: "#DRDO and @IndianNavy successfully flight tested Vertical Launch Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile (VL-SRSAM) from the ITR, Chandipur off the coast of Odisha on August 23,2022. The flight test was carried out from an Indian Naval Ship against a high-speed unmanned aerial target https://t.co/jkNzkw4cl5" / Twitter


The Delhi MLU has given them brand new SAMs. Good. The Barak-1s were getting long in the teeth.

 

[Vamsi]

Defence Decode® on Twitter: "#DRDO and @IndianNavy successfully flight tested Vertical Launch Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile (VL-SRSAM) from the ITR, Chandipur off the coast of Odisha on August 23,2022. The flight test was carried out from an Indian Naval Ship against a high-speed unmanned aerial target https://t.co/jkNzkw4cl5" / Twitter


The Delhi MLU has given them brand new SAMs. Good. The Barak-1s were getting long in the teeth.

Can we expect these missiles atleast onboard the last 2 P-17A frigates from day 1 itself without waiting untill Midlife upgrade.?

 

[binayak95]

Can we expect these missiles atleast onboard the last 2 P-17A frigates from day 1 itself without waiting untill Midlife upgrade.?

They have the magik voodoo shit that is Barak 8

 

[Vamsi]

They have the magik voodoo shit that is Barak 8

I know, but if we have both VL-SRSAM & Barak-8,then it will be a layered AD right.

 

[binayak95]

I know, but if we have both VL-SRSAM & Barak-8,then it will be a layered AD right.

the Barak 8 can engage targets as close as 500m away from the ship (and this as per Open Source info) - so rather than double up on two different missiles, create a universal VLS, load up whatever you want for whatever mission.

But 64 Barak 8 sounds super cool.

 

[Vamsi]

the Barak 8 can engage targets as close as 500m away from the ship (and this as per Open Source info) - so rather than double up on two different missiles, create a universal VLS, load up whatever you want for whatever mission.

But 64 Barak 8 sounds super cool.

but u cannot have 64 Barak-8s on one ship, it will be too costly, hence 32 VL-SRSAM along with existing 32 Barak-8s will be good imo, in current setup Barak-8 is doing both Anti-aircraft & Anti-missile roles, if have VL-SRSAM,then it can do Anti-missile role,while Barak-8 can do Anti-aircraft.