Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Adm Kenobi

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Is there a separate thread for INS Vikramaditya? I was curious about it's deployment history, beyond Indian coast itself - for example has it been deployed to the middle East, east african coast, beyond malaka st. etc?
The only foreign port call make by INS Vikramaditya was in 2018, to Sri Lanka.
Vikramaditya rarely leaves Indian EEZ.

First deployment in mid 2014, deployed for around a dozen times since. Has participated in several exercises (within IN & multilateral/bilateral) notably- Tropex 2015, 17, 19 (Tropex didn't happen in 2016, 18 & 20), Malabar 2017, 19, 20, Varunastra 2019.

Last deployed in Malabar 2020 (Nov), it was going through a major overhaul until June 2022, 1st major overhaul was in 2016, and major refit in 2017 and now 2020.
 

Love Charger

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The only foreign port call make by INS Vikramaditya was in 2018, to Sri Lanka.
Vikramaditya rarely leaves Indian EEZ.

First deployment in mid 2014, deployed for around a dozen times since. Has participated in several exercises (within IN & multilateral/bilateral) notably- Tropex 2015, 17, 19 (Tropex didn't happen in 2016, 18 & 20), Malabar 2017, 19, 20, Varunastra 2019.

Last deployed in Malabar 2020 (Nov), it was going through a major overhaul until June 2022, 1st major overhaul was in 2016, and major refit in 2017 and now 2020.
Once vikky gave me booty calls now not anymore
 

flanker99

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Anyone know the source?
Comment made by retired IN personal...i think he was just giving his opinion...nothing concrete.
 

binayak95

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Pehle design finalize hone do, bina koi concept ya fir design studies karke bhala kaise koi indigenous content naap sakta hae?
the lead time for any naval shipbuilding program of frigate and above is 10 years. The design, armament and sensor package has long since finalised. Once approval for construction is given by DAC, construction shall start. Should be early next year once all the P15B and P17A hulls are afloat and enough space is made free.
 

WolfPack86

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SUPER HORNETS MAY PIP RAFALES IN INDIAN NAVY’S CARRIER-BASED FIGHTER AIRCRAFT PROCUREMENT: ORF REPORT
Purchase of F/A-18 Super Hornets can herald the beginning of a closer long-term relationship with the US, which shall be beneficial for India and especially the Indian Navy in countering the hegemonic blue-water ambitions of China’s PLAN


by Aditya Bhan

With at least 26 aircrafts to be procured under the Indian Navy’s ongoing Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighters (MRCBF) programme, and the initial requirement of 57 aircrafts creating the scope for acquiring greater numbers, the two contenders going head-to-head are the Rafale Marine (M) aircraft and the F/A-18 Super Hornet. The trials have concluded, with the Indian Navy having received the complete data from the tests conducted at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) in Goa.

The time left to choose an aircraft and place orders is limited because INS Vikrant, India’s second aircraft carrier, is likely to be commissioned into the service of the Indian Navy on 15 August 2022. While INS Vikrant—India’s first indigenously constructed aircraft carrier—can host the Indian Navy’s MiG 29K’s, their underwhelming availability and limited numbers imply that they cannot operate at their full potential from either of India’s aircraft carriers. Hence, the urgent requirement for additional fighter aircrafts.

In a recent report favouring the F/A-18’s chances, it is claimed that not only has the aircraft successfully completed the SBTF trials, but has also done so with payloads exceeding the Indian Navy’s requirements for ski-jump take-off. The aircraft took off from the testing facility’s ski jump carrying two AGM-84 Harpoon missiles, each weighing 550 kg, for a total loadout of 1,100 kg.

The F/A-18 can fold its wings to fit into the elevators of INS Vikrant, while this is a complex task with the Rafale M because its wings cannot be folded.

Also in favour of the Super Hornet is the availability of the twin-seater variant, F/A-18F, while the Rafales only come in single-seat configuration. Further, the F/A-18 can fold its wings to fit into the elevators of INS Vikrant, while this is a complex task with the Rafale M because its wings cannot be folded. While the Rafale M’s wingspan of 35 feet 9 inches is less than the Super Hornet’s 44 feet 8.5 inches, the latter’s wingspan can be reduced to 30.5 feet after folding its wings, making it 5 feet less than the Rafale M.

Moreover, commonality of weapons and engines with Indian aircrafts also enhances the F/A-18’s appeal. The Indian Navy’s future twin-engine deck-based fighter shall initially use the F-414 engine, which is also used to power the Super Hornet. The aircraft also enjoys weapons commonality and interoperability with the Indian Navy’s P-8I Neptune long-range multirole maritime patrol aircraft.

In addition to these technical considerations, the recent approval of Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanctions Act sanctions waiver for India by the United States (US), in context of the former’s purchase of Russian S-400 air defence systems, could also act as a geopolitical catalyst for the Indian Navy’s purchase of Super Hornets. This can be viewed as a confidence-building measure which is significant when viewed against the backdrop of the lack of mutual trust between the US and India in the past, and the lack of any such waiver for Turkey after it inked a deal to purchase the S-400 in 2017. In fact, Turkey was stripped off its fifth-generation F-35 aircrafts, as a result of the sanctions.

The scenario with respect to the Indian Air Force (IAF) is quite different from the Indian Navy, with the Rafale’s M88 engine manufacturer having approached the Indian Ministry of Defence with a proposal to set up its largest aircraft engine maintenance, repair, and overhaul facility in India. This increases the likelihood of selection of the Rafale in the IAF’s 114 multi-role fighter aircraft procurement.

The aircraft also enjoys weapons commonality and interoperability with the Indian Navy’s P-8I Neptune long-range multirole maritime patrol aircraft.

However, from the Indian Navy’s perspective, the Block-III variant of the Super Hornet on offer is a decent aircraft given its lowest maintenance cost among all twin-engine tactical fighter aircraft operated by the US armed forces. Even in terms of its avionics, the Block-III variant is quite advanced, and India requires such fighter aircrafts to counter China which is building new variants of its carrier-borne J-15 fighter aircraft with J-15D as a designated electronic warfare (EW) platform. The E/A-18G Growler, which utilises the same airframe as the F/A-18 Super Hornets, can present the Indian Navy with formidable EW capabilities in times to come.

The US is constantly working to maintain its technological edge over China, and equipping newer technologies on the Super Hornets provide the US Navy an advantage over China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). The same weapon systems can subsequently be operated by the Indian Navy on its Super Hornets, with an eye on the increasing presence of the PLAN in the Indian Ocean Region. Hence, purchase of Super Hornets can herald the beginning of a closer long-term relationship with the US, which shall be beneficial for India, and especially the Indian Navy, in countering the hegemonic blue-water ambitions of the PLAN.

 

binayak95

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Vicky is just a liability, we effectively have INS Vikrant only as a carrier, Vikramaditya is a showpiece only.
View attachment 165135
Dont take this guy and his hot takes seriously. Vkd might seem like a liability but given the sheer extent of alterations done to her, I am not at all surprised at delays - her hangars, her deck layout -all have been changed.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Dont take this guy and his hot takes seriously. Vkd might seem like a liability but given the sheer extent of alterations done to her, I am not at all surprised at delays - her hangars, her deck layout -all have been changed.
Is it possible to change its current propulsion system from the turbine boilers to lets say the LM2500?
 

binayak95

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Is it possible to change its current propulsion system from the turbine boilers to lets say the LM2500?
It is possible - but that would entail an entire rebuild of the hull - from the deepest compartments where the boilers are - through to the exhaust manifold. Might as well build a new ship.

IN had done such a project once as an experiment in the 70s and 80s. One of the older Rajput class (Hunt class DDEs) was rebuilt from the keel up to be as modern as possible. The British design and hull proved its worth - and the ship happily served another 15 years - but the cost was so high that IN rightly concluded to just buy another ship than attempt such an extensive rework.
 

Knowitall

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"Overt Defense understands that in June, the MoD had asked the industry to provide their manufacturing readiness for dozens of new land based and naval equipment. This includes Project-17 Bravo (P-17B), which will be a follow-on order for P-17A class frigates. It also includes both the NGD and NGF separately, confirming that both projects are on the anvil. It is possible that the NGF project may be initiated only after progression of P-17B, which itself is likely to be contracted only by 2025-26 when all P-17A frigates would be ready for service."
P-17b is almost unheard of.

Anyone has an idea on when this project is expected to commence and if it has been included in the recent mod reports.
 

binayak95

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P-17b is almost unheard of.

Anyone has an idea on when this project is expected to commence and if it has been included in the recent mod reports.
Sometime after the P18s commence construction - both the P18 and the P17B are slated to absorb next gen tech - DEWs, IEP, integrated NUAS, ASVs, reduced crew size advanced UVLS among many others.

Most of this tech is not ready for induction yet - but given current climate and pace should be ready in 3-4 years
 

Gessler

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Anyone know the source?
Not possible - Judging by recent developments, the propulsion of NGD & NGF will likely be Rolls Royce MT30. Even if we license produce (i.e. screwdrivergiri) it cannot be considered indigenous as there is no control of IP (unlike Brahmos, Barak-8). The IEP/IFEP could have some joint ownership of IP though as we're tying up with GE to develop a modified solution.

But one thing's for sure though, indigenous content percentage will be much higher on NG combatants than any existing ship due to likely replacement of MFSTAR with LRMFR.

The only foreign port call make by INS Vikramaditya was in 2018, to Sri Lanka.
Vikramaditya rarely leaves Indian EEZ.

First deployment in mid 2014, deployed for around a dozen times since. Has participated in several exercises (within IN & multilateral/bilateral) notably- Tropex 2015, 17, 19 (Tropex didn't happen in 2016, 18 & 20), Malabar 2017, 19, 20, Varunastra 2019.

Last deployed in Malabar 2020 (Nov), it was going through a major overhaul until June 2022, 1st major overhaul was in 2016, and major refit in 2017 and now 2020.
I had once stated on this same forum that Vikky will be a write-off much before its intended retirement date (currently thought to be 2040). As the years go by, we will experience the exact same grief with maintaining this ship as the Russians are with their Kuznetsov.

Not to mention, Vikky will more than likely not be receiving MRCBF. With the poor serviceability rate of the MiG-29Ks (compounded by their maintenance-intensive engines further stressed due to carrier ops), the air wing will teeter on the edge of inoperability on its own. The availability & sortie rates will likely be worse than the old Viraat+Sea Harrier combo. 7% of the MiG fleet has already been lost to crashes and that was when the planes were still relatively new. The Fulcrum airframe was simply never meant for carrier ops - we have a future flying coffin on our hands here.

And let's not forget how many billions the Russians fleeced out of us for this piece of junk. In other words the whole carrier + aviation complex has been a huge waste of money. However IN, like the RusNavy, places a lot of undue importance on the pride of operating carriers...hopefully, once Vikrant becomes operational they'll no longer need to hang on to Vikky with the same zealousness. But who knows.

I just hope there aren't any catastrophic failures. This ship just makes the whole Navy look bad.

P-17b is almost unheard of.

Anyone has an idea on when this project is expected to commence and if it has been included in the recent mod reports.
This is the first & only time I've even heard of 17B. Nobody else has even hinted at it, neither the Navy nor the Shipyards. I'll wait for confirmation from other sources before jumping to any conclusions.
 

The Shrike

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Comment made by retired IN personal...i think he was just giving his opinion...nothing concrete.
I remember reading a few years ago that even the prop shaft is imported from Russia for our Frigates/Destroyers - I wonder if that has changed. It's hard to take these "90% indigenous" comments at face value when even basic parts were being imported.
 

binayak95

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I remember reading a few years ago that even the prop shaft is imported from Russia for our Frigates/Destroyers - I wonder if that has changed. It's hard to take these "90% indigenous" comments at face value when even basic parts were being imported.
Depends entirely on the propulsion - if its LM 2500 GTs or the Diesel engines then its Kirloskar built prop shafts - if its Zorya GTs then it HAS to be Russian - the M36 Reversible GT on the P15/P15A/P15B is a bloody monster.

That said, BHEL has started manufacturing them here after the war broke out - timely MoU if i may say so XD
 

binayak95

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Why can't the IN just order two more Carriers of the Vikrant variant to maintain a 3 carrier capability and then embark on a 15 year design period for the next generation carrier?
Or even make a Vikrant mk II with catapults and IEP in a marginally bigger carrier - 50k tonnes. That I believe is the IN's intention - but the chaps in MoD and good old service rivalry (cough IAF cough) has flummoxed all attempts thus far.
 

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