Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[johnj]

No but the P-8I gives IN a longer reach and deeper look into the enemy's airspace and seaspace and provide IN a bigger holistic picture, not to mention the offensive capabilities of launching harpoons from a long standoff attack range. It alleviate IN's shortcomings with the number of ships vis a vis PLAN.

PLAN, - I don't get it.
Rest, IN don't need it, considering PN.
IN having better options.
Harpoons ?? brahmos a way better than harpoons and with more range also other better options available.
Basically P8i not a major requirement of IN.
P8i is a highly downgraded version of P8a, and all p8 versions better than p8i, mainly becz it is brought during development time[buggy], new ones[4] is better than old 8.
Only advantage of p8i is, it share common payload with romeo and work with sea guardians, except that, a huge expensive item to buy & use.
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Other side- IN wanted MRMRA [c235 tata] and some tu22m's, now stuck with p8i [with a negative report from cag] and major beneficiary of this deal was goi, helped to improve indo-us relations [removal of sanctions to civilian nuclear deal]

 

[Blademaster]

P8i is not a highly downgraded version. In fact it is more enhanced. The only thing different is that India put in their own comtech systems there. But it remains a very capable plane.

Where did you get the notion that the P-8i was buggy and bough during development stage? Brahmos is not necessary for P-8is. Harpoons will just do fine and P-8is can carry more harpoons than Brahmos.

 

[karn]

That is why there are rest spaces in P-8Is.

True .. but it's cheaper to have rest spaces on Terra firma

 

[Blademaster]

True .. but it's cheaper to have rest spaces on Terra firma

Then you lose out your ability to do long range patrol out to the straits of malacca and go on standby patrol. This kind of capability help you project your power longer and at greater range.

 

[karn]

Then you lose out your ability to do long range patrol out to the straits of malacca and go on standby patrol. This kind of capability help you project your power longer and at greater range.

The Avenger has slightly more range than the p8 .. it is expensive getting humans to fly

 

[Blademaster]

The Avenger has slightly more range than the p8 .. it is expensive getting humans to fly

Can the datalink be reliably maintained during times of conflict? And can it carry a full payload of harpoons or even sonobuoys?

P-8i is a complete robust system that cannot be easily replaced by any other platform.

 

[johnj]

P8i is not a highly downgraded version. In fact it is more enhanced. The only thing different is that India put in their own comtech systems there. But it remains a very capable plane.

Where did you get the notion that the P-8i was buggy and bough during development stage? Brahmos is not necessary for P-8is. Harpoons will just do fine and P-8is can carry more harpoons than Brahmos.

Are you joking ??
All p8 were downgraded versions except p8a, which is used by usn. p8a was buggy when first brought by usn, the same time IN brought p8i, india is the first international customer of p8, brought by goi when IN asked for mrmra.
Harpoons -- PN can defend itself from harpoons, and p8i can't carry brahmos.
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Anyways GoI brought p8i, done is done, now the next step lrashm & sea guardians plus hypersonic missile defence.

 

[karn]

Can the datalink be reliably maintained during times of conflict? And can it carry a full payload of harpoons or even sonobuoys?

P-8i is a complete robust system that cannot be easily replaced by any other platform.

Why replace when you can supplement..
Can the expensive p8s be everywhere ?
Sonobouyes yes harpoon no but nasm yes.
I'm not gonna speculate on the data link

 

[Blademaster]

Are you joking ??
All p8 were downgraded versions except p8a, which is used by usn. p8a was buggy when first brought by usn, the same time IN brought p8i, india is the first international customer of p8, brought by goi when IN asked for mrmra.
Harpoons -- PN can defend itself from harpoons, and p8i can't carry brahmos.
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Anyways GoI brought p8i, done is done, now the next step lrashm & sea guardians plus hypersonic missile defence.

ok pls back up your statements that the P8I is a downgraded version and it is buggy. PN cannot defend itself against harpoons. PN has no robust air defense capability.

 

[johnj]

ok pls back up your statements that the P8I is a downgraded version and it is buggy. PN cannot defend itself against harpoons. PN has no robust air defense capability.

All PN modern large ships - Tughril class,PNS Alamgir, etc capable of defending against harpoon. Harpoon is very old missile and pak is one of early customer. We brought barak1 to counter harpoons. So, PN can defend against harpoons.
'' PN has no robust air defense capability.'' - true, buy a robust air defense capability not needed to defend against a subsonic low flying target, a ciws is enough. If you are saying about a dozens of missile, then barak 8[IN], essm[PN], hq 16[PN] can handle those. essm [PN/USN] also capable of shooting down mach3 low flying targets.
I never said P8i is buggy, but initial p8a is buggy, and IN and USN getting jets same time, ones is buggy, ours highly downgraded version[becz brought during tests] with MAD, and no country sell superior versions of their own weapons to others[with some exceptions like f16bk60,mki], like all f35 sold to other countries is a downgraded version, in the case of p8i, it is the most downgraded version compared to others, becz India is a neutral country, aus & uk, closest allay. Till date IN never said any complaint against P8i, but said its too expensive, and still demanding for MRMRA.

 

[Angel of War]

Humans are a limiting factor for any ISR platform .. a crew cannot work for more than 8 hours effectively regardless of the actual loitering time of the platform.

that's not a reason for not getting P8Is . If not P8I then we should invest into UAVs like Sea Guardian which can also perform anti aub ops

 

[Angel of War]

Are you joking ??
All p8 were downgraded versions except p8a, which is used by usn. p8a was buggy when first brought by usn, the same time IN brought p8i, india is the first international customer of p8, brought by goi when IN asked for mrmra.
Harpoons -- PN can defend itself from harpoons, and p8i can't carry brahmos.
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Anyways GoI brought p8i, done is done, now the next step lrashm & sea guardians plus hypersonic missile defence.

P8I is definitely not downgraded. It was customised as per the User requirement. Many american subsystems were replaced by indian and European ones. The plane was fitted with all the equipment to match indian navy requirements. P8I has network centric warfare capabilities unmatched by any other aircraft of it's class. The Boeing 737 platform is comparitively easy to maintain than older Il38s

 

[Bhaubai]

 

[johnj]

P8I is definitely not downgraded. It was customised as per the User requirement. Many american subsystems were replaced by indian and European ones. The plane was fitted with all the equipment to match indian navy requirements

Replacement items is not considered like a downgraded, but a upgrade, but again its a downgraded version, like f16 sold to israel, or su35 sold to china. and thats why aus/uk articles says their p8 second best after p8a, and unlike other p8a, p8i having mad, also news p8i are mode advanced than other p8i, and yes their is no downgrade, but a initial version, not same like initial p8a[buggy] and now look like a considered version, its like rafale ioc vs rafale F4.Also american subsystems were a gen ahead of indian and european ones, but mosts of them only available under certain conditions.

 

[Blademaster]

Replacement items is not considered like a downgraded, but a upgrade, but again its a downgraded version, like f16 sold to israel, or su35 sold to china. and thats why aus/uk articles says their p8 second best after p8a, and unlike other p8a, p8i having mad, also news p8i are mode advanced than other p8i, and yes their is no downgrade, but a initial version, not same like initial p8a[buggy] and now look like a considered version, its like rafale ioc vs rafale F4.Also american subsystems were a gen ahead of indian and european ones, but mosts of them only available under certain conditions.

I am sorry but you are kinda chasing your tail coming up with that kind of logic.

 

[johnj]

I am sorry but you are kinda chasing your tail coming up with that kind of logic.

Its not my logic., a normal thing in military sale, and USA follows this logic, and I'm saying what US doing, but I can correct my self, if USA sells its most advanced brand new ssn to India or modified b2.
USA usually sell jet/equipment with downgraded sensors, and downgrade is a downgrade.

 

[radion]

One of the p 17a is supposed to be commissioned this August?
Is it possible or delays as usual?

 

[rohit b3]

One of the p 17a is supposed to be commissioned this August?
Is it possible or delays as usual?

dont expect the first one to be commissioned before the last quarter of 2023.

 

[radion]

dont expect the first one to be commissioned before the last quarter of 2023.

8yrs for the first vishakapatnam
6yrs for the first nilgiri even with integrated modular construction

 

[rohit b3]

8yrs for the first vishakapatnam
6yrs for the first nilgiri even with integrated modular construction

Depends on funds really. and a bit of corruption and incompetency, but mainly funds. I mean if they can complete Nilgiri by 2023, that would mean, 6 years construction period. Compare that to the once so called "Superpowers", Russia is taking 10-12 years to complete each ship of their 5000 tons class Admiral Gorkshov Frigates while Uk is taking around 9-10 years to complete their Type 26 Warships.
Times are changing