Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Chinmoy

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I thought only frigates need ASW copters since they lack sub warfare capability. Do destroyers also have a need for them??
Destroyer, Frigates, Corvettes are class of ships divided on basis of displacement rather then function.
A destroyer could be designed to carry out anti ship, anti air or anti surface role. But since after an AC, it is the biggest ship in flotilla, it is designed for multi mission role.
But being smaller in size then Destroyer, a frigate or corvette is designed keeping a particular mission like anti air or anti sub role in mind. Example, Horizon is anti air class frigates. Nansen class is anti sub class frigates. Our Shivalik is multi role frigates.
So deploying a helicopter for anti submarine role has nothing to do with Destroyer, Frigate or Corvette. As @Gessler already mentioned, it is must for any of these. It extends its arm literally.
 

Dark Sorrow

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I thought only frigates need ASW copters since they lack sub warfare capability. Do destroyers also have a need for them??
I will give a short and simplistic answer without going in scientific details or complication.
Ocean water is not homogeneous. Due to difference in salinity, pressure and temperature of ocean water shadow-zones are created.
This shadow-zones are basically blind-spots.
For every sonar operating at given conditions these shadow-zones are known. ASW helicopter is sent to this shadow-zone to effectively hunt sub-marines.

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Ships also have a lot of ambient noise and vibration.
Modern aerial ASW also have expendable variable depth sonar to more effectively counter shadow-zones.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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IMRH won't come before 2028-30. Had read in some article that some of our capital ships may have to do without any heli, any truth to that? Or Seakings will be continued? Also, which specific ships will have NMRH/IMRH category of helis?
Its highly likely that another 24-30 MH-60R might be ordered as a stopgap till then
 

johnj

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I thought only frigates need ASW copters since they lack sub warfare capability. Do destroyers also have a need for them??
ASW copters mainly for ASW ships, and its not dependent on displacement. All ships with helipads can use ASW helio.
 

Photon

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By MICHAEL STARR

Published: APRIL 13, 2022 00:37
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 A warship of the Russian Black Sea fleet leaves a port during naval drills in Sevastopol, Crimea, in this still image taken from video released February 12, 2022.  (photo credit: Russian Defence Ministry/Handout via REUTERS)

A warship of the Russian Black Sea fleet leaves a port during naval drills in Sevastopol, Crimea, in this still image taken from video released February 12, 2022.
(photo credit: Russian Defence Ministry/Handout via REUTERS)
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Some Russian shipyards are unable to construct warships or conduct maintenance on vessels due to financial hardships and lack of foreign components, the Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate (GUR) claimed on Saturday.

A Vladivostok shipyard was allegedly unable to meet 25 billion rubles worth of government orders to build two tankers, two missile boasts, and to maintain and repair other vessels, GUR claimed.

A supposed internal Russian Defense Ministry report obtained by GUR said that a lack of foreign components was preventing the construction of warships parts and naval warfare systems, such as steering columns, navigations systems, radio stations, and charges for naval artillery shells.




GUR previously asserted on March 25 that the general Russian defense industry was unable to meet its production contracts for munitions and vehicles due to rising costs and the inability to obtain electronics and components normally purchased from countries now sanctioning Russia.

"It is obvious that the Russian military-industrial complex remains dependent on imported high technologies," wrote GUR on Saturday. "Without the supply of which Russia is unable to continue production of modern weapons."

 A Russian navy vessel is anchored on the day of the first anniversary of the Crimean treaty signing in the Black Sea port of Sevastopol, March 18, 2015. (credit: MAXIM SHEMETOV/REUTERS)
A Russian navy vessel is anchored on the day of the first anniversary of the Crimean treaty signing in the Black Sea port of Sevastopol, March 18, 2015. (credit: MAXIM SHEMETOV/REUTERS)
The alleged internal Russian report states that the defense contractors are unable to find local or Asian substitutes for sanctioned components. On April 2, GUR alleged that electronics, materials and optics needed for producing modern military equipment and vehicles were being smuggled into Russia from Georgia and East Asia.

According to GUR, due to the loss of key foreign components and the cost of raw materials, Russia may have to produce older components and vehicles – in the case of one factory, equipment purportedly developed from as far back as the 1960s – instead of modern gear.

In late March, the Intelligence Directorate claimed that Russia is attempting to restore old military equipment held in long-term storage to replace losses suffered during its invasion of Ukraine but it is encountering difficulty in doing so because of corruption and the poor condition of the equipment.


"Optical devices and electronics containing precious metals were stolen from the combat vehicles," said GUR. The intelligence body reported that many of the 4th Tank Division's mothballed tanks were "completely dismantled," and that some did not have engines.

The intelligence agency also claimed on Saturday that Russian Defense Ministry staff are being laid off due to financial difficulties since the beginning of the month.
 

WolfPack86

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Navy working with HAL to develop 50 UH (Marine) choppers for warship requirements
New Delhi [India], April 15 (ANI): In what could be a major boost for Make in India in defence, the Indian Navy and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited are looking at developing a new Utility Helicopter (Marine) to meet the warship requirements of the force.

If the development of the new variant of the Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv is done successfully, the Indian Navy would be looking at placing orders for 50 of these choppers which would help the Indian Navy to deploy choppers on its warships on high seas, the government sources told ANI.

The development of choppers at the helicopter division of the public sector undertaking is being torn up after HAL claimed to the forces that it has been successful in the development of foldable rotors, the sources said.

Due to constraints of space on warships, Navies across the globe require helicopters and aircraft to have foldable wings which allow more assets to be parked there.

The frigates and destroyers have relatively smaller parking spaces and foldable rotors of UH Marine would allow them to be kept easily, sources said.

The Navy has more than 150 warships in its fleet and wants them to be equipped with at least one helicopter each and is looking at procuring them through the Make in India route first.

In recent times, the Indian Navy has induced around 16 of these ALH Dhruv Mark 3 choppers along with an equal number of machines for the Indian Coast Guard too.

For the Indian Navy also, the HAL has been offering a maritime version of the Dhruv but not much could be done due to the lack of capabilities that have been required by the maritime force for operations.

The Indian Navy warships are deployed all along the Indian Ocean Region and warships are provided with helicopters for reconnaissance and surveillance along with other operations required by the fleet to be carried out.

The force will soon get its first set of the 24 MH-60 Romeo choppers from the US which were contracted for in a Foreign Military Sales deal a couple of years ago to meet the urgent requirements of multirole attack and anti-submarine warfare choppers. (ANI)
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Navy to acquire 60 light helicopters from HAL
To meet its long-pending requirement of Naval Utility Helicopters (NUH), the Navy is looking to procure variants of the indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) modified for ship-based operations, according to defence sources.

The tender for 111 NUH was earlier being processed through the Strategic Partnership (SP) route of the procedure which last week was included by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in the third positive indigenisation list.

Based on the suggestions of a joint study with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) last October, the Navy has issued its broad requirements to HAL in January for acquisition of 60 utility helicopters based on the ALH for maritime operations, defence sources said.

“The detailed project report covering the helicopter configuration and the overall cost including performance based logistics is under preparation by HAL, which will be submitted to Service Headquarters and MoD shortly,” two defence sources confirmed.


The Navy has been looking to procure new utility helicopters for well over a decade but the attempts did not make progress.

First deal
In November 2018, Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) accorded Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for procurement of 111 NUH under the SP model, the first deal to be processed under the ambitious model meant to promote domestic private sector participating in defence manufacturing. Subsequently, the Request for Expression of Interest (REoI) to Original Equipment Manufacturers and Strategic Partners were issued in February 2019.


However, the process has since been held up as HAL jumped into the fray proposing wheeled landing gear variant of ALH with adaptations, officials said. A key requirement of the NUH was folding rotors for the helicopter to be able to fit into the ship hanger.

A defence source explained that in October 2021, the Navy and HAL carried out a joint study to exploit ALH to maximum potential for naval operations by optimising it to 5.7 tonnes, reducing the empty weight by choice of light weight avionics and mission sensors, higher payload capability upto 600 kg for deck operations, reduced stowage dimensions to meet requirement with foldable two segment blades and modified upper control system and ASIST (Aircraft Ship Integrated Secure and Traverse) traversing interface for ship deck.

Detailed report
The official added that based on the suggestions in the joint study report, the Navy has issued its broad requirements to HAL in January for acquisition of 60 utility helicopters for maritime operations as per Buy-Indian IDDM (Indigenously Designed, Developed and Manufactured) route of Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020. HAL would submit the detailed project report very soon, the company sources said.

In the first major helicopter induction in decades, the Navy is set to induct the first batch of three MH-60R Multi-Role Helicopters, 24 of which were contracted from the US, this June. These are a replacement of the Sea King 42/42A helicopters which have been phased out in the 1990s.

However, a contract to procure six Ka-31 early warning helicopters which was in advanced stages as well as the case for six more P-8I long range maritime patrol aircraft have been deferred by the MoD during the review of all direct import deals, officials stated.

The NUH will replace the ageing Chetak fleet in service in urgent need of replacement. In addition to the Chetak, the Navy operates Russian Kamov 28/31s which have been upgraded, shore based ALH Dhruvs and ageing Sea Kings and six Sikorsky UH-3Hs.
 

Hari Sud

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Indian Navy to acquire 60 light helicopters from HAL
To meet its long-pending requirement of Naval Utility Helicopters (NUH), the Navy is looking to procure variants of the indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) modified for ship-based operations, according to defence sources.

The tender for 111 NUH was earlier being processed through the Strategic Partnership (SP) route of the procedure which last week was included by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in the third positive indigenisation list.

Based on the suggestions of a joint study with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) last October, the Navy has issued its broad requirements to HAL in January for acquisition of 60 utility helicopters based on the ALH for maritime operations, defence sources said.

“The detailed project report covering the helicopter configuration and the overall cost including performance based logistics is under preparation by HAL, which will be submitted to Service Headquarters and MoD shortly,” two defence sources confirmed.


The Navy has been looking to procure new utility helicopters for well over a decade but the attempts did not make progress.

First deal
In November 2018, Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) accorded Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for procurement of 111 NUH under the SP model, the first deal to be processed under the ambitious model meant to promote domestic private sector participating in defence manufacturing. Subsequently, the Request for Expression of Interest (REoI) to Original Equipment Manufacturers and Strategic Partners were issued in February 2019.


However, the process has since been held up as HAL jumped into the fray proposing wheeled landing gear variant of ALH with adaptations, officials said. A key requirement of the NUH was folding rotors for the helicopter to be able to fit into the ship hanger.

A defence source explained that in October 2021, the Navy and HAL carried out a joint study to exploit ALH to maximum potential for naval operations by optimising it to 5.7 tonnes, reducing the empty weight by choice of light weight avionics and mission sensors, higher payload capability upto 600 kg for deck operations, reduced stowage dimensions to meet requirement with foldable two segment blades and modified upper control system and ASIST (Aircraft Ship Integrated Secure and Traverse) traversing interface for ship deck.

Detailed report
The official added that based on the suggestions in the joint study report, the Navy has issued its broad requirements to HAL in January for acquisition of 60 utility helicopters for maritime operations as per Buy-Indian IDDM (Indigenously Designed, Developed and Manufactured) route of Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020. HAL would submit the detailed project report very soon, the company sources said.

In the first major helicopter induction in decades, the Navy is set to induct the first batch of three MH-60R Multi-Role Helicopters, 24 of which were contracted from the US, this June. These are a replacement of the Sea King 42/42A helicopters which have been phased out in the 1990s.

However, a contract to procure six Ka-31 early warning helicopters which was in advanced stages as well as the case for six more P-8I long range maritime patrol aircraft have been deferred by the MoD during the review of all direct import deals, officials stated.

The NUH will replace the ageing Chetak fleet in service in urgent need of replacement. In addition to the Chetak, the Navy operates Russian Kamov 28/31s which have been upgraded, shore based ALH Dhruvs and ageing Sea Kings and six Sikorsky UH-3Hs.
These are tremendous orders for HAL, which is hell busy on LCA 1, 1A, 2 and stealth. It is assembling more Su-30mki and would refurbish the existing ones with upgrades and also many more development and upgrade projects. Helicopters will be an added burden to it. Hence the best course will be to split the HAL into two or three units with an independent management (not IAS officers) and let the individual units specialize and prosper. (I invite comments on my suggestionS).
 

Flying Dagger

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These are tremendous orders for HAL, which is hell busy on LCA 1, 1A, 2 and stealth. It is assembling more Su-30mki and would refurbish the existing ones with upgrades and also many more development and upgrade projects. Helicopters will be an added burden to it. Hence the best course will be to split the HAL into two or three units with an independent management (not IAS officers) and let the individual units specialize and prosper. (I invite comments on my suggestionS).
Heli division is different so is the production line.
 

Covfefe

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These are tremendous orders for HAL, which is hell busy on LCA 1, 1A, 2 and stealth. It is assembling more Su-30mki and would refurbish the existing ones with upgrades and also many more development and upgrade projects. Helicopters will be an added burden to it. Hence the best course will be to split the HAL into two or three units with an independent management (not IAS officers) and let the individual units specialize and prosper. (I invite comments on my suggestionS).
Design and development team, Sukhoi plant and Heli plants are different. Better order book means better finances and more autonomy for them to invest in development projects (we know how cabinet approval for funds work)
 
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But, INS Khukri was sunk. We should retire such names to honour those who laid down their lives on duty.
It's about point of view, I believe they fought like true sailors and made the supreme sacrifice and didn't abandon their ship and carried out their duties in the truest fashions of IN, their legacy lives on and continues to inspire others
 

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