Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[SwordOfDarkness]

I am right. I don't think so there is any chance that we will buy it. Like I said it's not just the terms and conditions ,but in a theoretical scenario if India and US become enemies and we will have to fight the US than if we are going to use US Aircrafts against US than US might disable these Aircrafts by using a kill switch. Ultimately I Feel like Indian Navy will have to buy Rafale M only because Rafale already being Operated by Indian airforce and thus if both the Services will be buying a common Platform than it will be cheaper in terms of Logistics in the long run.

Navy needs its own maintenance facility anyway, its too far off from kolkata and punjab to get repaired there.... If navy wanted rafale, they wouldnt have asked for 8 twin seater naval jets. That is in a way already disqualifying rafale. BTW FA18 has a much lower per hour operating cost than rafale, not to include Growler advantage if we get those.

Only advantage of commonality with IAF is if we get heavy sanctions from Nato bloc, And thats not very likely now.

 

[Super Flanker]

Navy needs its own maintenance facility anyway, its too far off from kolkata and punjab to get repaired there.... If navy wanted rafale, they wouldnt have asked for 8 twin seater naval jets. That is in a way already disqualifying rafale. BTW FA18 has a much lower per hour operating cost than rafale, not to include Growler advantage if we get those.

Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. If only there was no problem of those terms and conditions of these American platforms with which they generally come than I am all in for the FA-18 Super Hornet. Also Growler Configuration variant of FA-18? Uhm I am not sure if us will give us but if they are ready to give us the Growler EW (Electronic WarFare) than I say to the Indian Navy' buy the FA-18! Buy the FA-18' . Anyways Let's see what decision does Indian Navy take with regards to it.

 

[Super Flanker]

Navy needs its own maintenance facility anyway, its too far off from kolkata and punjab to get repaired there.... If navy wanted rafale, they wouldnt have asked for 8 twin seater naval jets. That is in a way already disqualifying rafale. BTW FA18 has a much lower per hour operating cost than rafale, not to include Growler advantage if we get those.

Only advantage of commonality with IAF is if we get heavy sanctions from Nato bloc, And thats not very likely now.

There is always a chance that Navy might change some things in the RFI like how you said that the RFI also requests for a duel seat version. But Rafale-M has no twin seater Variant. So indian Navy should have disqualified Rafale here itself , than if inspite of knowing that Rafale-M doesn't have a twin seater Variant than They should have disqualified Rafale here itself and not do testing of it. But the fact that testing is indeed going on of Rafale-M suggests that Navy has something else in Mind. Maybe they might change the Requirement of the Tender and make it all single seater? I don't know why but this is something that has by head scratching. Anyways let's see what Indian Navy will buy.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

There is always a chance that Navy might change some things in the RFI like how you said that the RFI also requests for a duel seat version. But Rafale-M has no twin seater Variant. So indian Navy should have disqualified Rafale here itself , than if inspite of knowing that Rafale-M doesn't have a twin seater Variant than They should have disqualified Rafale here itself and not do testing of it. But the fact that testing is indeed going on of Rafale-M suggests that Navy has something else in Mind. Maybe they might change the Requirement of the Tender and make it all single seater? I don't know why but this is something that has by head scratching. Anyways let's see what Indian Navy will buy.

Most likely just trying to avoid a single vendor situation where boing tries to loot us dry.

 

[Super Flanker]

Most likely just trying to avoid a single vendor situation where boing tries to loot us dry.

Oh really? I don't think so. I feel like Indian Navy might change their proposal or else why test the Dassault Rafale? If you put a Requirement that the Aircraft must have dual seater Variant as well than Why would you let rafale participate and why would you spend money in doing testing of it? Well it's seems highly likely that Indian Navy might change their proposal. That's what it seems to me and I stand firm with my Argument here.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

 

[Super Flanker]

Should we consider LCA navy for air wing of INS Vikrant? Basically a combination of MIG-29k and Naval LCA.

Also I had a question which I had posted in the Naval LCA Tejas thread. My question was if Indian Navy in an Hypothetical scenario decides to buy tejas than what type of Weopons will Naval LCA be able to carry? R-73? Python-5? Etc?

 

[Lonewolf]

Better to go with ciws and missile positioned at two seperate position , increase in number of missiles , and fcr can be integrated in both seperately or common one .

 

[Marliii]

I am right. I don't think so there is any chance that we will buy it. Like I said it's not just the terms and conditions ,but in a theoretical scenario if India and US become enemies and we will have to fight the US than if we are going to use US Aircrafts against US than US might disable these Aircrafts by using a kill switch. Ultimately I Feel like Indian Navy will have to buy Rafale M only because Rafale already being Operated by Indian airforce and thus if both the Services will be buying a common Platform than it will be cheaper in terms of Logistics in the long run.

Laughs in iranian f14 .people believing in kill switches are idiots

 

[Marliii]

Laughs in iranian f14 .people believing in kill switches are idiots

Countries can withheld spares but any country with even a little amount of tactical brain will make spares themselves uncle sam even crushed f14 so that iranian will nit get any spares have it worked ?big no

 

[Super Flanker]

Better to go with ciws and missile positioned at two seperate position , increase in number of missiles , and fcr can be integrated in both seperately or common one .

That maybe your opinion but Indian Navy has asked for a combination of Gun+Missile. I am Not sure that they will change the proposalIndian has set a Requirement for it's future CIWS which should be of Gun+missile combination. Pantsir M fits the bill.
Refer to this and check the specifications of Pantsir M and you will know that its best.

Laughs in iranian f14 .people believing in kill switches are idiots

Don't be so sure about that mate. You never know the United States! Ok if kill switches won't be a problem but what if in a future conflict they stop supply of major parts? Than what? Also pls explain about what you meant about Iranian F-14?

 

[Marliii]

That maybe your opinion but Indian Navy has asked for a combination of Gun+Missile. I am Not sure that they will change the proposalIndian has set a Requirement for it's future CIWS which should be of Gun+missile combination. Pantsir M fits the bill.
Refer to this and check the specifications of Pantsir M and you will know that its best.
View attachment 130712

Don't be so sure about that mate. You never know the United States! Ok if kill switches won't be a problem but what if in a future conflict they stop supply of major parts? Than what? Also pls explain about what you meant about Iranian F-14?

That will be a problem with France too even russians and f18 gundoors and some parts are made by HAL themselves. Kill switches are a fuvking urban myth that even idiots dont believe

 

[The Shrike]

HOW ABOUT WE BUY OLDER STEAM POWERED CATAPULT?

Does anyone actually make steam powered catapults as of today? Who do we buy it from?

 

[Super Flanker]

That will be a problem with France too even russians and f18 gundoors and some parts are made by HAL themselves. Kill switches are a fuvking urban myth that even idiots dont believe

Oh? Is that so? Than I guess that renders my Argument pretty much useless than. But still you have to understand that US platforms tend to come with a lot of terms and conditions. Unlike Russian Aircrafts like SU-30 MKI wherein we can use them for whatever we like and however we want, the Russians have no problem with regards to it.

 

[Marliii]

Oh? Is that so? Than I guess that renders my Argument pretty much useless than. But still you have to understand that US platforms tend to come with a lot of terms and conditions. Unlike Russian Aircrafts like SU-30 MKI wherein we can use them for whatever we like and however we want, the Russians have no problem with regards to it.

General rule is you can only trust your own indigenous equipment .russians are nice to us because we pay them shit money we are their historical customer so they make concessions.at the end it doesn't make any sense to argue US has killswitch France and russia are nice argument

 

[Super Flanker]

General rule is you can only trust your own indigenous equipment .russians are nice to us because we pay them shit money we are their historical customer so they make concessions.at the end it doesn't make any sense to argue US has killswitch France and russia are nice argument

Yes exactly I guess I ruled that out. Best way to and to be on the safe side is make your own Indigenous Aircrafts and put them into service. Anyways Tejas MK-2 ,Tejas Mk1a , AMCA etc are in the pipeline for IAF and TEDBF is in pipeline for the Indian Navy. Anyways if we are going to buy any us Aircraft for our Indian Navy than the best option will be FA-18 Super Hornet, also we should buy the Growler Configuration variant of the FA-18 Super Hornet if US agrees to sell them to us, those will be an EW(Electronic WarFare beast) for the Indian Navy.

 

[IndianHawk]

Elizabeth class

Nope they gave up on both nuclear propulsion and emals.

 

[IndianHawk]

but the cost will be vastly spread over a decade

30 billion usd over a decade is still 3 billion usd a year. Navy's procurement budget is 5-6 billion usd only. And it has to pay for SSN during same time period that's another 20 billion usd for 6 SSN atleast .
And then there are P18 destroyers 1.5 billion each . Next gen frigrates 1 billion usd each. And so on.....

So some adjustments are necessary.

A conventional carrier with Catobar is good enough for our requirements. We can manage that under 10 billion usd by 2035 and then carrier airwing under 10 billion usd. So total 20 billion usd by 2035-40 is more appropriate. The next carrier could be a full nuclear 100000 tons supercarrier with emals , rail guns and laser and everything else as we will be able to afford them .

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Should we consider LCA navy for air wing of INS Vikrant? Basically a combination of MIG-29k and Naval LCA.

Also I had a question which I had posted in the Naval LCA Tejas thread. My question was if Indian Navy in an Hypothetical scenario decides to buy tejas than what type of Weopons will Naval LCA be able to carry? R-73? Python-5? Etc?

as things are happening if navy is not interested in ordering new mig29 the most probably more naval lac should be ordered.

i will add one more thing to that hypothetical scenario, why not use tejas from carrier for refueling of mig 29. try and get mig 29 to fly from the AC with one more extra missle and bit less fuel and re fill it in air through tejas.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Don't be so sure about that mate. You never know the United States! Ok if kill switches won't be a problem but what if in a future conflict they stop supply of major parts? Than what? Also pls explain about what you meant about Iranian F-14?

Basically, CIA did an operation in iran and overthrew the democratic govt there. Then they sold the govt a ton of arms, including F14s, to make them powerful and counter Iraq, which Iran did in the Iran-Iraq war later on. However, Iran had a democratic revolution, threw the shah out, and turned very anti US. And they still have the F14s