Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Lonewolf]

Reports: U.S. Offers EMALS for Indian Carrier Development Program - USNI News

India could be the first export customer for the aircraft launching system that is key to the new Gerald R. Ford-class carriers, according to reports in the Indian press this week. Citing sources in the Trump administration, the Press Trust of India reported this week that the U.S. has approved...

news.usni.org

Lot of basic research on emails is already done

 

[Marliii]

Emals would require a nuclear carrier first. Which will again increasing budget.
IN also wanted 57 imported jets now down to 26. At the end they can only buy what budget allows.

They said the minimum was 26

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Emals would require a nuclear carrier first. Which will again increasing budget.
IN also wanted 57 imported jets now down to 26. At the end they can only buy what budget allows.

Nah, not really, nuclear powered is not prerequisite. It's the electrical power your engine can produce. Integrated Electric propulsion units for ship is very good alternative for this.
Don't worry about budget, Navy is there to take a headache for it. We can only see what they want, whether they get it or not is their problem and since they have been wanting for it a long time, they certainly think they can get it.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Nah, not really, nuclear powered is not prerequisite. It's the electrical power your engine can produce. Integrated Electric propulsion units for ship is very good alternative for this.
Don't worry about budget, Navy is there to take a headache for it. We can only see what they want, whether they get it or not is their problem and since they have been wanting for it a long time, they certainly think they can get it.

the upcoming ships will be powered by mt30, so imo they can solve the issue of more power req.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Here's some good info why EMALS is the next logical step, do watch the full video:-

 

[IndianHawk]

Nah, not really, nuclear powered is not prerequisite. It's the electrical power your engine can produce. Integrated Electric propulsion units for ship is very good alternative for this.
Don't worry about budget, Navy is there to take a headache for it. We can only see what they want, whether they get it or not is their problem and since they have been wanting for it a long time, they certainly think they can get it.

No one has used emals without nuclear power.

Navy is also paying for 6 SSN it's getting.

Vikrant itself cost us 3.2 billion usd without air wing.
A 65000 ton carrier will cost 5 billion at least in today's money. Add emals + nuclear and we are looking at 8-10 billion usd in today's money. Add inflation and in 2035 it will costs us double atleast . And then add air wing 55-60 aircraft + helicopter and awacs. And we are looking upwards 30 billion usd by 2035.
And that's if we order carrier within next 3 years.

 

[IndianHawk]

They said the minimum was 26

Yup because they are not getting money for 57.

 

[Lonewolf]

No one has used emals without nuclear power.

Navy is also paying for 6 SSN it's getting.

Vikrant itself cost us 3.2 billion usd without air wing.
A 65000 ton carrier will cost 5 billion at least in today's money. Add emals + nuclear and we are looking at 8-10 billion usd in today's money. Add inflation and in 2035 it will costs us double atleast . And then add air wing 55-60 aircraft + helicopter and awacs. And we are looking upwards 30 billion usd by 2035.
And that's if we order carrier within next 3 years.

Elizabeth class

 

[THESIS THORON]

No one has used emals without nuclear power.

Navy is also paying for 6 SSN it's getting.

Vikrant itself cost us 3.2 billion usd without air wing.
A 65000 ton carrier will cost 5 billion at least in today's money. Add emals + nuclear and we are looking at 8-10 billion usd in today's money. Add inflation and in 2035 it will costs us double atleast . And then add air wing 55-60 aircraft + helicopter and awacs. And we are looking upwards 30 billion usd by 2035.
And that's if we order carrier within next 3 years.

but the cost will be vastly spread over a decade

 

[Kuldeepm952]

No one has used emals without nuclear power.

Navy is also paying for 6 SSN it's getting.

Vikrant itself cost us 3.2 billion usd without air wing.
A 65000 ton carrier will cost 5 billion at least in today's money. Add emals + nuclear and we are looking at 8-10 billion usd in today's money. Add inflation and in 2035 it will costs us double atleast . And then add air wing 55-60 aircraft + helicopter and awacs. And we are looking upwards 30 billion usd by 2035.
And that's if we order carrier within next 3 years.

Elizabeth class ac was supposed to get emals and studies were concluded to be feasible. They reverted to stobar coz of ther reasons.
First let IAC 002 to get approval first, all doubts will be cleared then and have you seen the above video showing why exactly emals is next logical step when you want to operate UAVs from your carrier.
Who says we don't have money, apparently some are rich enough to buy 6 Apaches at 940million $.

 

[Super Flanker]

These are systems which are required in future upto 2030 induction and the RFP for same will be floated in meantime.
On carrier front, we should simply join the French 75000 ton aircraft programme until we have time, would severely cut costs for us and seems to meet our next carrier requirement.

Yes you are right about that. And with regards to this tender of CIWS for the Indian Navy than my best bet on this is Pantsir-M which Fullfils all the Parameters laid by the Tender/RFI. So let's see what happens. I am 100% sure that by 2030 all AK-630s will have to be replaced (2030 is a longtime frame).

With regards to IAC-2 Carrier well I am not too much into that but I can say for sure with 100% sertitude that it will have a Displacement exceeding 55000 tons. That's all I have to say. Looking forward to the future of the Indian Navy from my Side! JAI HIND!

 

[Lonewolf]

@Gessler did u checked out recent satellite imagery ?
Ins mormugao is just missing paint and few things in interior , if trials go for a year ,then induction at year end is possible .

Ins imphal already got mf star fitted along with coastal surveillance radar , also vls are kinda ready , so does most of deck work , but the last ship is lagging behind a bit , and nilgiri seems delayed now

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Yes you are right about that. And with regards to this tender of CIWS for the Indian Navy than my best bet on this is Pantsir-M which Fullfils all the Parameters laid by the Tender/RFI. So let's see what happens. I am 100% sure that by 2030 all AK-630s will have to be replaced (2030 is a longtime frame).

With regards to IAC-2 Carrier well I am not too much into that but I can say for sure with 100% sertitude that it will have a Displacement exceeding 55000 tons. That's all I have to say. Looking forward to the future of the Indian Navy from my Side! JAI HIND!

We already produce AO 18 cannon of ak 630, same is used in pantsir m. If Russians agree to integrate Indian fcr and EO system then we need to only license produce the missiles. Everything except missiles can be replaced by indigenous alternative. Russian new gen close range missiles are really different in that they have a booster which propels them to very high speeds and then a frontal dart is released which is used to engage the target, such a system has not been developed by us, advantage of such missiles being very cheap. But owing to the size of the system, except ciws capacity of future frigates and destroyers to be not more than 2.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Both rafale and FA-18 are undergoing Testing? Hold on a second I thought Indian Navy had dropped the plan for FA-18 Horner but I guess I was wrong. But I still don't know about what is the exact lift size of INS Vikrant still. Anyways if Indian Navy goes for FA-18 than I would suggest that we go for the growler Configuration variant of the FA-18 as well (If the US will be willing to give it to us)

Actually, FA-18 is the major contender I would say, going by the RFI put out by navy.... It wants two seaters too, and rafale m has no naval 2 seater variant.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

this

We are in discussion for E2D hawkeye, and for now use heli based aewacs.

 

[Super Flanker]

We already produce AO 18 cannon of ak 630, same is used in pantsir m. If Russians agree to integrate Indian fcr and EO system then we need to only license produce the missiles. Everything except missiles can be replaced by indigenous alternative. Russian new gen close range missiles are really different in that they have a booster which propels them to very high speeds and then a frontal dart is released which is used to engage the target, such a system has not been developed by us, advantage of such missiles being very cheap. But owing to the size of the system, except ciws capacity of future frigates and destroyers to be not more than 2.

I know that. Already we produce AK-630 in India with its Indigenous content being 95+ percent so I don't see any problem in the Russians giving us TOT(Transfer of Technology) for Pantsir-M so that we can produce it in India itself. Like this if Indian Army, Airforce decide to buy Pantsir (In a theoretical scenario, I say it again in a theoretical scenario) than we will be able to produce Them In India itself and it will be a good logistical thing because all 3 armed forces are using a common platform. But Pantsir S1 uses a different cannon/Gun as compared to the Pantsir-M so this might be a small issue in logistics but here and there some parts are different in different versions of pantsir but overall the entire platform is pretty much the same. I don't think so that Indian Airforce and army will buy Pantsir though because Pantsir had already failed interplanetary trials of Indian Army (ah indian army! Testing and testing and testing and testing and gosh!!! More testing!)
Sources-

Pantsir missile systems: Big flop in Syria, Russia still roadblocking Korea’s K-30 Biho purchase by Indian Army – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

So my best bet is the Indian Navy with regards to Pantsir-M.

Actually, FA-18 is the major contender I would say, going by the RFI put out by navy.... It wants two seaters too, and rafale m has no naval 2 seater variant.

Time will tell what will happen. There are many things which you have to take into consideration before buying American Aircrafts and Weopon platforms because they tend to come with a lot of terms and conditions.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Here's some good info why EMALS is the next logical step, do watch the full video:-

The emals being offered has never even been tested, and the version on US navy ships is already a headache to maintain....with only slightly better performance

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I know that. Already we produce AK-630 in India with its Indigenous content being 95+ percent so I don't see any problem in the Russians giving us TOT(Transfer of Technology) for Pantsir-M so that we can produce it in India itself. Like this if Indian Army, Airforce decide to buy Pantsir (In a theoretical scenario, I say it again in a theoretical scenario) than we will be able to produce Them In India itself and it will be a good logistical thing because all 3 armed forces are using a common platform. But Pantsir S1 uses a different cannon/Gun as compared to the Pantsir-M so this might be a small issue in logistics but here and there some parts are different in different versions of pantsir but overall the entire platform is pretty much the same. I don't think so that Indian Airforce and army will buy Pantsir though because Pantsir had already failed interplanetary trials of Indian Army (ah indian army! Testing and testing and testing and testing and gosh!!! More testing!) So my best bet is the Indian Navy with regards to Pantsir-M.

Time will tell what will happen. There are many things which you have to take into consideration before buying American Aircrafts and Weopon platforms because they tend to come with a lot of terms and conditions.

True, thats why we have never bought fighters from US... but RFI calls for 8 two seaters, and rafale two seaters cant tae off from a carrier... will have to be shore based only. Very wasteful. Either we will get 26 single seater rafale after changing proposal, or we will buy FA18. Otherwise wasteful.

 

[Super Flanker]

True, thats why we have never bought fighters from US... but RFI calls for 8 two seaters, and rafale two seaters cant tae off from a carrier... will have to be shore based only. Very wasteful. Either we will get 26 single seater rafale after changing proposal, or we will buy FA18. Otherwise wasteful.

I am right. I don't think so there is any chance that we will buy it. Like I said it's not just the terms and conditions ,but in a theoretical scenario if India and US become enemies and we will have to fight the US than if we are going to use US Aircrafts against US than US might disable these Aircrafts by using a kill switch. Ultimately I Feel like Indian Navy will have to buy Rafale M only because Rafale already being Operated by Indian airforce and thus if both the Services will be buying a common Platform than it will be cheaper in terms of Logistics in the long run.