Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Haldilal

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Question is abt the armament. Even when we compare similar class Western ships to Kolkata class, It looks under armed.
Ya Nibba it can accommodate more than 64 missiles. Has larger range. And can sustain longer at the high seas. Unlike a costal defence Corvette. And the corvette cost 350 million dollars. And the Kamorta Corvette cost just 230 million dollars and if equipped with missiles can accommodate 32 missiles. And even the Kamorta class also has a larger range and can sustain longer at the sea.
 
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ezsasa

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Question is abt the armament. Even when we compare similar class Western ships to Kolkata class, It looks under armed.
Obviously thousands of planners & designers worked on this design for years, may be they don't need such large numbers of armaments in this phase. one reason could be that, the focus for now still only on IOR.

More over a naval vessel is not gonna operate solo.

For U.S and china the use case exists, for U.S they need it because they are deployed far away from their home base. For china, they need missiles to defend the large number of SCS islands.

what's the use case scenario for Indian Navy to have a large number of brahmos? (other than karachi).
 

FalconSlayers

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Obviously thousands of planners & designers worked on this design for years, may be they don't need such large numbers of armaments in this phase. one reason could be that, the focus for now still only on IOR.

More over a naval vessel is not gonna operate solo.

For U.S and china the use case exists, for U.S they need it because they are deployed far away from their home base. For china, they need missiles to defend the large number of SCS islands.

what's the use case scenario for Indian Navy to have a large number of brahmos? (other than karachi).
No I talked to many ex Naval officers and they said initially some space is left on the Kolkata class destroyers to incorporate futuristic and Modern equipment once available.
 

Alfalfa

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Theres a lot of chatter about the Indian ships being poorly armed, I asked this question to my father who is an ex Navy man and seasoned on multiple destroyer classes - he said a bunch of things about our supposedly low VLS count which made sense (to me at-least). It has a lot to do with what school of thought the naval planners adhere to. In India we draw from mainly the Soviet Navy and the British Navy-

Soviet Naval doctrine was more around packing large volumes of missiles into launchers, sail into contested waters unload the sheer mass of ordinance and hope to dis-appear, primarily under the assumption that the US Navy will always have numeric superiority over the Soviets. Hence the overwhelming armament load
  1. This also has a bearing on crew comfort - More VLS cells means lesser room for crews, Soviet ship designs are notorious for packing crews like Sardines - 8 men to a small 8*8 feet room on the Petya Class (the worst ship, he said he has ever sailed on - and he was a young officer, Haha) . Because they don't intend to use them as blue water platforms with ships spending months at sea. Goal is to go out, hit as much as you can in a short span of time and return
  2. Having a lot of VLS cells can also be counterproductive, it increases the surface area of vulnerable parts of your ship, if you were to take the extreme case of a Kirov class battlecruisers, almost the entire fore part of the ship, is VLS systems, one missile hit or a stray shell hit would be the end of the ship.. the whole magazine would blow like the HMS Hudd did in WW2 - one massive boom and all over
The British on the other hand view themselves as a true blue water navy, the line of thought is that - if at war, expect to get hit as well, but hit back and aim to survive - survivability and crew comfort are paramount considerations rather. If you look at the Type 45, their Sylver A50 VLS is for Surface to Air roles with the Aster 15/30 missiles in tandem.. for the Anti Ship role they use 2 Quad Launchers of Harpoons.

Our ships lie somewhere in between, quite literally borrowing from both doctrines - 32 Cell VLS for the Baraks and a 16 cell VLS for the Brahmos, the Brahmos is intended to be fired in a 2 missile salvo and the Navy is confident that nothing the intended adversary has in its arsenal will survive a 2 missile salvo from the Brahmos. If by some miracle you manage to take down some 7-8 ships and survive - a replenishment vessel in the vicinity should be able to load you up fast enough.

Also you need to keep in mind the Brahmos costs a boat load to own . each unit costs 20 crore - adding another 8 Cell VLS costs 200 Cr

PS - Nonethless, some things about the Kamorta class do baffle me too!
 
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Arihant Roy

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My fellow Indians in general and bhakts in particular , pls watch this from 12:17 to 12:32 minutes.


PM Modi explicitly says, " Bharat me taiyar do adhunik pandubiya bhi corona kal me hi Nausena ko prapt hui. "

Only Vagir , a Kalvari class sub was launched at Mazgaon during this covid 19 times for outfitting work and trials which will be carried out under supervision of Navy personnel.. Then what is the second submarine , he is talking about?? Even if I deliberately act obtuse and argue that it was a retrofitted indigenously overhauled Shishumar or Sindhugosh class, then it would still not explain the 'Bharat mei taiyar 'phrase.

Then WHAT IS THE MYSTERY MADE IN INDIA PANDUBIYA????

:megusta::megusta::cruisin2::drool::drool:

The answer lies on the east coast in Ship Building centre, Visakhapatnam.. So another of the .............. was floated out in between March 25 and now. ' Corona kal '

If I were to go by semi official authoritative sources , she would be the third in the class. 8 VLS with all the bells and whistles.An extended length sibling of .......
And according to grapevine, the third submarine was INS Arighat. The second still not revealed sub had been in Navy service for quite some time . So this new launch will be the fourth boat.
 

Deadtrap

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My fellow Indians in general and bhakts in particular , pls watch this from 12:17 to 12:32 minutes.


PM Modi explicitly says, " Bharat me taiyar do adhunik pandubiya bhi corona kal me hi Nausena ko prapt hui. "

Only Vagir , a Kalvari class sub was launched at Mazgaon during this covid 19 times for outfitting work and trials which will be carried out under supervision of Navy personnel.. Then what is the second submarine , he is talking about?? Even if I deliberately act obtuse and argue that it was a retrofitted indigenously overhauled Shishumar or Sindhugosh class, then it would still not explain the 'Bharat mei taiyar 'phrase.

Then WHAT IS THE MYSTERY MADE IN INDIA PANDUBIYA????

:megusta::megusta::cruisin2::drool::drool:

The answer lies on the east coast in Ship Building centre, Visakhapatnam.. So another of the .............. was floated out in between March 25 and now. ' Corona kal '

If I were to go by semi official authoritative sources , she would be the third in the class. 8 VLS with all the bells and whistles.An extended length sibling of .......
And according to grapevine, the third submarine was INS Arighat. The second still not revealed sub had been in Navy service for quite some time . So this new launch will be the fourth boat.
Good find!
 

Akula

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Theres a lot of chatter about the Indian ships being poorly armed, I asked this question to my father who is an ex Navy man and seasoned on multiple destroyer classes - he said a bunch of things about our supposedly low VLS count which made sense (to me at-least). It has a lot to do with what school of thought the naval planners adhere to. In India we draw from mainly the Soviet Navy and the British Navy-

Soviet Naval doctrine was more around packing large volumes of missiles into launchers, sail into contested waters unload the sheer mass of ordinance and hope to dis-appear, primarily under the assumption that the US Navy will always have numeric superiority over the Soviets. Hence the overwhelming armament load
  1. This also has a bearing on crew comfort - More VLS cells means lesser room for crews, Soviet ship designs are notorious for packing crews like Sardines - 8 men to a small 8*8 feet room on the Petya Class (the worst ship, he said he has ever sailed on - and he was a young officer, Haha) . Because they don't intend to use them as blue water platforms with ships spending months at sea. Goal is to go out, hit as much as you can in a short span of time and return
  2. Having a lot of VLS cells can also be counterproductive, it increases the surface area of vulnerable parts of your ship, if you were to take the extreme case of a Kirov class battlecruisers, almost the entire fore part of the ship, is VLS systems, one missile hit or a stray shell hit would be the end of the ship.. the whole magazine would blow like the HMS Hudd did in WW2 - one massive boom and all over
The British on the other hand view themselves as a true blue water navy, the line of thought is that - if at war, expect to get hit as well, but hit back and aim to survive - survivability and crew comfort are paramount considerations rather. If you look at the Type 45, their Sylver A50 VLS is for Surface to Air roles with the Aster 15/30 missiles in tandem.. for the Anti Ship role they use 2 Quad Launchers of Harpoons.

Our ships lie somewhere in between, quite literally borrowing from both doctrines - 32 Cell VLS for the Baraks and a 16 cell VLS for the Brahmos, the Brahmos is intended to be fired in a 2 missile salvo and the Navy is confident that nothing the intended adversary has in its arsenal will survive a 2 missile salvo from the Brahmos. If by some miracle you manage to take down some 7-8 ships and survive - a replenishment vessel in the vicinity should be able to load you up fast enough.

Also you need to keep in mind the Brahmos costs a boat load to own . each unit costs 20 crore - adding another 8 Cell VLS costs 200 Cr

PS - Nonethless, some things about the Kamorta class do baffle me too!
Both US Navy and Chinese Navy do force projection, that why they have higher no of VLS.
 

Haldilal

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Both US Navy and Chinese Navy do force projection, that why they have higher no of VLS.
The Theory of building ship of us and the soviet is in sharp contrast to the Western design which the Mlecchas Ship design was influenced.
 

Haldilal

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But I like there design of cruiser and upcoming frigate. Very clean.
The frigate has been delayed the Type 54A would be still in the production. And yeah but there are other better designs like this.
images (71).jpeg
images (74).jpeg
 
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Freezer Dam

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My fellow Indians in general and bhakts in particular , pls watch this from 12:17 to 12:32 minutes.


PM Modi explicitly says, " Bharat me taiyar do adhunik pandubiya bhi corona kal me hi Nausena ko prapt hui. "

Only Vagir , a Kalvari class sub was launched at Mazgaon during this covid 19 times for outfitting work and trials which will be carried out under supervision of Navy personnel.. Then what is the second submarine , he is talking about?? Even if I deliberately act obtuse and argue that it was a retrofitted indigenously overhauled Shishumar or Sindhugosh class, then it would still not explain the 'Bharat mei taiyar 'phrase.

Then WHAT IS THE MYSTERY MADE IN INDIA PANDUBIYA????

:megusta::megusta::cruisin2::drool::drool:

The answer lies on the east coast in Ship Building centre, Visakhapatnam.. So another of the .............. was floated out in between March 25 and now. ' Corona kal '

If I were to go by semi official authoritative sources , she would be the third in the class. 8 VLS with all the bells and whistles.An extended length sibling of .......
And according to grapevine, the third submarine was INS Arighat. The second still not revealed sub had been in Navy service for quite some time . So this new launch will be the fourth boat.
How many N Sub is in the water till now,pls🙄🙄🙄
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars we need to scale up our Naval Programme better to scale up the Kamortha to a 4,000 tons Light frigate and produce them in dozens.
Here the Mlecchas PLAN's development programmes.
Em7nrG_VEAA6hJF.jpeg
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Ya'll Nibbiars we need to scale up our Naval Programme better to scale up the Kamortha to a 4,000 tons Light frigate and produce them in dozens.
Here the Mlecchas PLAN's development programmes.
View attachment 66761
This stupidity of piecemeal order of 3-4 ships per class needs to stop, it is high time that we build 7-12 ships per class for destroyers, frigates and 15 ships per class for corvettes.
 

Haldilal

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This stupidity of piecemeal order of 3-4 ships per class needs to stop, it is high time that we build 7-12 ships per class for destroyers, frigates and 15 ships per class for corvettes.
Yeah the current Corvette and OPV's programmes is a mess need a multipurpose Corvettes and OPV's.
 

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