Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Adioz]

So in conclusion, we do not have a system comparable to Yu-8 in service.

I think its possible to develop such a missile. We already have the DRDO Shenya light weight torpedo. We need to upgrade if we can and mount it atop a rocket booster (with a length < 3.3 m and dia < 0.52 m) of that can hurl a 220 kg warhead (in this case the Shenya torpedo) to at least 30 km away. Later on when we develop the UVLS for the Project 18 destroyers, we can easily fit this into the VLS and voila our own Anti submarine missile

How difficult can it be? I bet it can be made in 1 year. All the Navy has to do is ask.

@aditya10r , if possible, ask commodore sir this.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

I don't know about Shtil-1. Hope you are right, but AFAIK, we signed a deal in 2000-01 for the 9M317ME missiles, and those had a range of 35 km. If we have upgraded, its good.

Now, regarding Yu-8: Its the effective range of the torpedo that is 3 km in the water. The torpedo itself can be fired on top of a missile from the VLS upto a range of ~30 km.
Compare that to RPK 8 (RBU-6000 with 90R rocket) that has a smaller warhead with an effective range of 130 m in the water. The warhead is fired on top of a rocket that has a range of ~4 km.
Yu-8 is a different kind of a system. Chinese system comparable to the RPK 8 is Type-87 rocket launcher that carries 36 rockets. (Our RBU-6000 carries 96 reloads, then that is good for us).

So in conclusion, we do not have a system comparable to Yu-8 in service. Hope that cleared your confusion.

Isn't it better to have ASROC then from US than this 1/3 range Russian rip off for our Navy?

Regarding BuK 50 Km , next 4 will surely have that the second batch I think due to Brahmos deep upgrade thus makes sense to buy newest and latest. Also the 50 Km is diagonal range, thus the '35 km' may be the 50 km one.

 

[Adioz]

Isn't it better to have ASROC then from US than this 1/3 range Russian rip off for our Navy?

Regarding BuK 50 Km , next 4 will surely have that the second batch I think due to Brahmos deep upgrade thus makes sense to buy newest and latest. Also the 50 Km is diagonal range, thus the '35 km' may be the 50 km one.

Again, I hope you are right about Shtil-1 having 50 km range on our ships. Its comforting to know that.
But please understand that RBU-6000 and ASROC are different kinds of systems. RBU-6000 uses very cheap ammunition. ASROC practically uses light weight torpedoes. IMHO, because the Navy is lacking any UVLS and with it already running low on space on its warships due to the massive VLS of Brahmos, it decided to compromise with this capability at least until the next generation of destroyers with UVLS arrived. If it wanted to, the Navy could easily have asked the DRDO and DRDO would have come up with an Indian equivalent to ASROC within 1 year, as I have explained in the previous post (#3981).

 

[aditya10r]

If you can ask him any further questions, here's mine:

Does the Indian navy plan on becoming a true blue water navy, as in operating to a smaller degree in all the oceans of the world? Are there any plans on operating in the Pacific or even south Atlantic in the future?

Yup.

Navy has a very clear cut vision for next 20 years.

With Changing environment navy will operate more than 3 carriers,5-6 by mid century and a true blue navy with total domination of IOR and legs long enough to demonstrate power far away from shores.

We have interests in IOR and western pacific,this is the region which guarantees our energy and trade security.

As of now we are limited to IOR,but in next 10-20 years our reach will extend beyond this region.

 

[aditya10r]

How difficult can it be? I bet it can be made in 1 year. All the Navy has to do is ask.

@aditya10r , if possible, ask commodore sir this.

Navy is looking forward to add such a missile system on its future next gen destroyers.

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[Adioz]

Navy is looking forward to add such a missile system on its future next gen destroyers.

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Thanks bhai!!
Last question(s): Is the Navy thinking of using hot-launch method in its new universal VLS? And can the new universal VLS be retrofitted to the earlier ships, particularly the P-15A and B?

 

[aditya10r]

Thanks bhai!!
Last question(s): Is the Navy thinking of using hot-launch method in its new universal VLS? And can the new universal VLS be retrofitted to the earlier ships, particularly the P-15A and B?

Everything depends on the trials later this year and maybe in future refits they will be plonked on Delhi class, Kolkata class and other frigates.

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It all depends on the trials.

 

[Adioz]

Everything depends on the trials later this year and maybe in future refits they will be plonked on Delhi class, Kolkata class and other frigates.

_________________________________________

It all depends on the trials.

Trials are later this year? Trials of universal VLS?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:santa::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa:

 

[shiphone]

errrr.......... don't forget this

RPK-6/7 -russian Anti-Sub missile fired via surface vessel 533mm torpedo tube


--------
BTW,

...the Anti-Sub Rocket on Type-54A frigate is FQF-3200. ...252mm, 3000+m range.

...the warhead of Yu-8 missile is a light torpedo with a voyage of around 14km itself

the Next Gen Rocket-assisted torpedo system will have New Generation light torpedo- Yu-11 as the warhead...oblique launching...sharing the Launch system with YJ-8/83 AShM on most of PLAN ships ,especially on new 60+ Type056/056A Corvettes...

 

[Tanmay]

end of 2016 status. So basically the Main Gun and AK-630 are some sort of Semi Knock Down kits?? And we just assemble them

 

[Adioz]

View attachment 22765
end of 2016 status. So basically the Main Gun and AK-630 are some sort of Semi Knock Down kits?? And we just assemble them

At least they let us license manufacture stuff even after we blacklist them
CRN 91 looks like a gyrostabalized BMP turret.

 

[binayak95]

View attachment 22765
end of 2016 status. So basically the Main Gun and AK-630 are some sort of Semi Knock Down kits?? And we just assemble them

For the SRGM, the 127mm main gun and the CIWS system, we get the barrel & feed system in SDKs. Baaki idhar.

And more worrying is the CRN-91. If we can't make a 30mm cannon properly, what hope is there for Indian CIWS or SRGM from the Public sector.

 

[Pandeyji]

For the SRGM, the 127mm main gun and the CIWS system, we get the barrel & feed system in SDKs. Baaki idhar.

And more worrying is the CRN-91. If we can't make a 30mm cannon properly, what hope is there for Indian CIWS or SRGM from the Public sector.

Having the capability to make something shouldn't mean that we should. Sometimes we should just select the most effective system (if it is available easily & cheaply). Not much point in re-inventing the wheel and all that.

 

[Tanmay]

For the SRGM, the 127mm main gun and the CIWS system, we get the barrel & feed system in SDKs. Baaki idhar.

And more worrying is the CRN-91. If we can't make a 30mm cannon properly, what hope is there for Indian CIWS or SRGM from the Public sector.

If barrel and feed is imported what do we make ? The casing and displays and rotating mechanism ?
Its like Ferroro rocher chocolate import karo and box Mai daalke becho:/
The CRN is derived from BMP IIRC. and it arms almost all coast guard and smaller patrol vessels. So that's a bit worrisome not that it's a major combat system still it's a system with good number of orders. So no excuse of not having orders etc

 

[Adioz]

For the SRGM, the 127mm main gun and the CIWS system, we get the barrel & feed system in SDKs. Baaki idhar.

And more worrying is the CRN-91. If we can't make a 30mm cannon properly, what hope is there for Indian CIWS or SRGM from the Public sector.

There is some hope: http://ficci.in/events/22716/ISP/R-ADM-TRIPATHI.pdf
According to this presentation, stabilization, barrel tech and miniaturisation (of what?) are the hurdles for indigenous gun systems.
How different are CIWS and SRGM barrels from howitzers? I imagine metallurgy-wise, not much would be different, especially for SRGM. Though with the 5000 rounds per minute of a CIWS, that could create major challenges. OTOH, stabilization of CIWS should be less of a concern than stabilization of SRGM.

At least they are thinking about indigenization of these systems.

 

[binayak95]

At least they let us license manufacture stuff even after we blacklist them
CRN 91 looks like a gyrostabalized BMP turret.

Having the capability to make something shouldn't mean that we should. Sometimes we should just select the most effective system (if it is available easily & cheaply). Not much point in re-inventing the wheel and all that.

Sure. Pay premium everytime. why are we bothering we making a good world class assault rifle then? That's WWII tech. No need.

 

[binayak95]

If barrel and feed is imported what do we make ? The casing and displays and rotating mechanism ?
Its like Ferroro rocher chocolate import karo and box Mai daalke becho:/
The CRN is derived from BMP IIRC. and it arms almost all coast guard and smaller patrol vessels. So that's a bit worrisome not that it's a major combat system still it's a system with good number of orders. So no excuse of not having orders etc

Casing, firing mechanism, interface and control machinery. That it.

 

[binayak95]

There is some hope: http://ficci.in/events/22716/ISP/R-ADM-TRIPATHI.pdf
According to this presentation, stabilization, barrel tech and miniaturisation (of what?) are the hurdles for indigenous gun systems.
How different are CIWS and SRGM barrels from howitzers? I imagine metallurgy-wise, not much would be different, especially for SRGM. Though with the 5000 rounds per minute of a CIWS, that could create major challenges. OTOH, stabilization of CIWS should be less of a concern than stabilization of

Two major differences:

1. automatic feed from Magazines. Thus far greater rate of fire - unlike howitzers, you can't let the recoil go unmanaged.

2. Zero manual interface (almost) the whole gun-laying-tracking-firing sequence is done by motors, so accordingly control interface with radars/ELO has to be synchronised.

 

[Tanmay]

There is some hope: http://ficci.in/events/22716/ISP/R-ADM-TRIPATHI.pdf
According to this presentation, stabilization, barrel tech and miniaturisation (of what?) are the hurdles for indigenous gun systems.
How different are CIWS and SRGM barrels from howitzers? I imagine metallurgy-wise, not much would be different, especially for SRGM. Though with the 5000 rounds per minute of a CIWS, that could create major challenges. OTOH, stabilization of CIWS should be less of a concern than stabilization of SRGM.

At least they are thinking about indigenization of these systems.

High rate of fire . Artillery guns would go usually say 3 rounds per minute. Oto melara super rapid goes 120 rounds per min.
Cooling system is needed. Corrosive action of sea is more etc. Continuously moving platform so targetting systems etc.

 

[Pandeyji]

Sure. Pay premium everytime. why are we bothering we making a good world class assault rifle then? That's WWII tech. No need.

B/c we need atleast a million assault rifles.