Indian Naval Aviation

[Yumdoot]

Indian Naval Helicopter ALH Dhruv Gets Foldable Rotors

But now HAL has cracked the problem. Two of the Dhruv’s rotors fold into the body of the aircraft, while one remains straight outward.

Now tell us if you would not love the Indian Navy for being jugaadu.

Bhagwan karey they get the fully folding one too, in the next few years

 

[Yumdoot]

I had wrongly counted this as 3 bladed earlier. But the Cobra Commando ji the above report may not be correct.

Dhruv has 4 blades. Like this :

But even the above folding seems do-able.

 

[Chinmoy]

Su30MKIs have a N011M which is a half way to AESA radar. Not a true AESA, neither a true PESA. The receivers modules have an amplifier each. For the true AESA both the transmitting side and the receiving side will have amplifying circuitry. N011M has a TWT pushing in power during the transmitting. Irbis-E puts in 2 TWT in series to increase the power, even further. Basic thought looks like - let us raise a hell lot of racket when transmitting - no holds barred - but when we listen lets keep things quite please.

Net result is that the system noise that increases the overall SNR reduces such that N011M is only a little worse off than a true AESA, in detection performance. The SNR difference used to be mentioned like 6dB while moving from a PESA to an AESA. But for N011M the diadvantage is mentioned to be 3dB. Since dB scale is a log scale base 10 so that difference is said to be significant. Which is also borne out by the claimed performances.

A true AESA additionally has a big advantage in terms of durability/reliability also which is not there with BARS N011M. If however the BARS-N011M is told where to look, by a Mainstay, then the usage can be managed better and the tracks by the BARS-N011M can be handed further to say Rafales/Tejas and after that the Su30MKI can go after the really important things leaving the more manageable tasks to Rafales and Tejas.

If at this stage the Rafales and Tejas or for that matter the Mig29s also can sport AESAs then the trap becomes perfectly laid - no leakages. But only Rafales and Tejas have the AESA installed or planned. Mig 29K does not.

Fortunately for us the Mig29K are not for volume air defence. Mostly they too would be guided by radars on Naval assets and hence Mig29K would work for point defending the INS-CBG or for deeper strike missions. For both these the radar that Indian Navy has chosen is more than sufficient. For example the radar on the Mig29K when on strike missions will see the enemy destroyer from around 300 km away.

The case for IAF is not as clean cut. IAF Mig29 could have benefited a lot with AESAs but on the flip side the Mig29UPG airframe may not have that much life left in them neither is the situation around town so drastic just yet - so I guess IAF too can manage with what it has.

But in all cases the Uttam AESA must be ported to all Tejas Mk-1 or Mk-2 or anything in between. Will help a lot.

That's a nice bit of info @Yumdoot. But the catch is, doesn't AESA makes the user vulnerable to being detected? Isn't it possible to have something like of a AESA and PESA together in platform?

 

[Yumdoot]

That's a nice bit of info @Yumdoot. But the catch is, doesn't AESA makes the user vulnerable to being detected? Isn't it possible to have something like of a AESA and PESA together in platform?

I don't quite get what you want to say. Do you see AESA as being more easily detectable compared to a PESA?

Actually AESA is the one that has a considerably lower probability of intercept than a PESA. That is one of the reasons I have rooted for getting the Uttam AESA onto all versions of LCA as soon as possible.

PESAs are going to be a lot cheaper and if deployed in pair, off angles, they will work against nearly all kinds of stealthy targets. Thus an air defence system build around PESAs will off set the techinical disadvantages they face by the numbers and axis, that they get to deploy.

Hope that was helpful.

 

[Chinmoy]

I don't quite get what you want to say. Do you see AESA as being more easily detectable compared to a PESA?

Actually AESA is the one that has a considerably lower probability of intercept than a PESA. That is one of the reasons I have rooted for getting the Uttam AESA onto all versions of LCA as soon as possible.

PESAs are going to be a lot cheaper and if deployed in pair, off angles, they will work against nearly all kinds of stealthy targets. Thus an air defence system build around PESAs will off set the techinical disadvantages they face by the numbers and axis, that they get to deploy.

Hope that was helpful.

I am not sure what I've read and understood. But as far as my knowledge goes, RADAR's do work in two ways
1 Active
2 Passive.

In active mode you do send radio waves to track down targets and in passive mode you do listen to active waves in the air. Both of this is used to detect targets, but while one actively search for target, other do wait and listen upon the active wave emitting by the target. In this way a fighter emitting AESA could be easily be detected by one using PESA.

I am not clear how much of it is true, but I think it is the way it is suppose to happen. I think that's how the jammer works in a fighter to save it from getting a lock my targeting SAM RADAR, by blocking the active radar.

Clarification on this doubt of mine by anyone would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Yumdoot]

Ok that means you are confusing:
1) Active Radar Homing with Active Electronically Scanned Array Antenna and
2) Semi-Active Radar Homing (essentially Passive) with Passive Electronically Scanned Array Antenna

Replace as required in your own write up and you get Active Homing guidance and Passive/Semi-Active Homing as relevant.

AESA and PESA on the other hand are different types of array antennas and necessary changes in radar systems in respect thereof. AESA has several Transmit/Receive Modules that are theoretically speaking individually activated. While for PESA the Array of TR Modules on the Antenna face, are all collectively activated from system arrangements behind the array.

Both Active Homing Sensor-heads and Semi-Active Homing Sensor-heads can be either of AESA or PESA antenna types.

So for your understanding your own write up should read like :

I am not sure what I've read and understood. But as far as my knowledge goes, RADAR's do work in two ways

1 Active Homing

2 Passive or Semi-Active Homing.

In active homing mode you do send radio waves to track down targets and in passive or semi-active homing mode you do listen to active reflected RF waves in the air. Both of this is used to detect targets, but while one actively search for target, other do wait and listen upon the active wave emitting reflected by the target.

 

[Chinmoy]

Ok that means you are confusing:
1) Active Radar Homing with Active Electronically Scanned Array Antenna and
2) Semi-Active Radar Homing (essentially Passive) with Passive Electronically Scanned Array Antenna

Replace as required in your own write up and you get Active Homing guidance and Passive/Semi-Active Homing as relevant.

AESA and PESA on the other hand are different types of array antennas and necessary changes in radar systems in respect thereof. AESA has several Transmit/Receive Modules that are theoretically speaking individually activated. While for PESA the Array of TR Modules on the Antenna face, are all collectively activated from system arrangements behind the array.

Both Active Homing Sensor-heads and Semi-Active Homing Sensor-heads can be either of AESA or PESA antenna types.

So for your understanding your own write up should read like :

Thanks a lot @Yumdoot . I do get it now. But my question remains the same. Doesn't you using a AESA makes it easier for enemy to target you, because of its noise and heat generation?
I was not aware of India making Uttam. That's a new for me. Could you kindly post more info on it.

 

[Yumdoot]

Thanks a lot @Yumdoot . I do get it now. But my question remains the same. Doesn't you using a AESA makes it easier for enemy to target you, because of its noise and heat generation?
I was not aware of India making Uttam. That's a new for me. Could you kindly post more info on it.

Not posting anything on Uttam AESA here. Googly aunty would do a much better job of getting you all the info on Uttam AESA.

About you query. The answer is no. Actually to the contrary the AESA antenna arrangement gives a lower system noise which is also a part of the overall Signal-to-noise ratio and hence theoretically speaking detects better ordinarily than a PESA. In other words AESAs will detect returning signals that are so weak that the ordinary radar will not even pick it up.

Corollary to the above is that an AESA will now have to transmit much less energy and yet can afford to do that much more discretely.

Also follows that ordinarily PESAs will be noisier and produce much more heat while producing much more transmitted energy, comparatively speaking.

PESAs are going to be much easily detected compared to AESAs.

Though yes, as things are shaping up these differences will begin to matter less and less. Since ultimately it is about detecting and killing. Hiding can at best only help the process of detection and killing and only to the point the opponent has not devised a counter to this Hiding phenomena. Hiding cannot replace the process of detection and killing.

 

[akshay m]

Completed renovation in Russia Indian Il-38SD

At the airfield in Zhukovsky in September 2015 it was seen passing the test after completion of repairs modernized anti-IL-38SD aircraft of the Indian Navy (Indian Room IN303). Overhaul of machines on the basis of "EMZ VM name Myasishcheva "in Zhukovsky (now part of JSC" Ilyushin ", which act as the lead contractor for repairs) lasted 22 months. The plane arrived at the repair Zhukovsky November 7, 2013. Completed repair anti-IL-38SD (Indian side number IN303, serial number 081 011 010, serial number 110-10) aircraft to the Indian Navy. The plane was built in 1971 put India in 1977. Zhukovsky, 09/14/2015 (c) Alex (another) / AlexS / russianplanes.net


It is the first Indian refurbished IL-38SD five machines of this type, belonging to the aircraft of the Indian Navy and subject to major overhaul of the agreement concluded by the Russian side in 2012. It is known that one Indian Il-38SD entered the repair Zhukovsky in late 2014. Recall that the contract 2001, five anti-an airplane Il-38 aircraft of the Indian Navy were modernized in Russia to the level of IL-38SD with framing a new search-and-sighting system "Sea Serpent" (Sea Dragon) development holding company "Leninist" (including two aircraft IL-38 at the same time to modernize were transferred to India because of the presence of naval aviation of the Russian Navy to replace the Indian machines of this type, lost in a collision in 2002 ). The first work on upgrading the level of IL-38SD the end of 2005 were completed in the Indian aircraft, tail number IN305, IN303 and the plane was the second machine, to complete the modernization (2006). The third Indian aircraft (IN301) completed the modernization in 2008, and work on two vehicles passed India from the Russian Navy and received the Indian number IN306 and IN307, were completed only in 2010. In aviation, the Indian Navy five Il-38SD included of the 315 Squadron, based in Goa. Now all five modernized aviation aircraft of the Indian Navy to be scheduled overhaul in Russia. The renovation of anti-IL-38SD (Indian side number IN303, serial number 081 011 010, serial number 110-10) aircraft to the Indian Navy. Zhukovsky, September 2015 (c) Alexey / russianplanes.net

 

[akshay m]

Sweet shot! An Indian Navy MiG-29K prepares for STOBAR take-off at Goa's shore rig as an AirIndiaIN A320 lifts off.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Sweet shot! An Indian Navy MiG-29K prepares for STOBAR take-off at Goa's shore rig as an AirIndiaIN A320 lifts off.

any takeoff video
.................................................................

 

[akshay m]

any takeoff video
.................................................................

there's a pic from yesterday

 

[akshay m]

contd.

 

[aditya g]

Excellent series of walkaround videos by StratPost.

I was quite impressed with the Ka-31, and the impact it has on the overall tactics, like how it reduces dependence on fighters, and saves the ship from radio emissions, thus improving stealth. Moreover, the real time data from Ka-31 is directly accepted by the MiG-29Ks, without the ship in loop.

IL-38 does not seem very impressive, unlike the P-8I - but good thing is that thanks to Indian data links they can talk to each other.

The SHAR officer was very proud of his aircraft's performance against Su-30s, Shornets and even Rafales!

The networking and data link capability developed by the Navy is fantastic.

 

[Sabru Foxtrot]

Sikorsky SH-3 Sea King Takeoff from INS Viraat (R22)

 

[INDRA Networks]

Indian Navy and Army operations in the Andamans Island

 

[Abhi9]

Sea harrier taking fuel from IL78MKI while Mig-29 watching over

 

[Rizvi Khan]

Sea harrier taking fuel from IL78MKI while Mig-29 watching over

The 29k is definitely a looker

 

[punjab47]

Has Indian Navy brass gone stark raving mad?

Basking in the afterglow of the electrifying Tejas at Bahrain, we are back to the more familiar strategic mistakes the military has tendency to commit. The shock here is that it is the Indian Navy — which has always had an inherent strategic sense, which of late has been faulting on a couple of issues (such as going in for 80,000 ton plus-class carriers to accommodate the US-given EMALS — electro-magnetic aircraft launch system which, as argued in my previous writings and in my new book, will end up grievously hurting the national interest.

The immediate problem is with the CNS, Admiral Robin Dhowan, announcing that the indigenous Arihant SSBN will showcase the Indian naval complement at the 2016 Presidential Fleet Review (PFR) to be held next month in Vizag, where some 50-odd navies will be sending their ships (http://idrw.org/ins-arihant-to-be-showstopper-at-international-fleet-review-ifr/). This boat is now at the on-board weapons-firing test stage after successfully negotiating harbor trials and deep sea-diving phases, as prelude to induction in fleet operations,

SSBN spearheading a fleet review??? Have Dhowan & Co. gone stark raving mad? A reasonable question to ask considering the Chinese PLAN will be sending a flotilla of surface ships and a submarine or two. Nothing would make PLAN happier than have the Arihant right there for them to assess, and in maneuvering to the review position in the van giving away its cavitation and some sonar signature (even if it doesn’t submerge) and other metrics for both the Chinese surface and submersible fleets hereafter to key into their threat data bank connected with their fire control systems for easy identification and counter-actions. This is ridiculous. And, how long do you think it will be before PLAN passes on the Arihant-related target information to the Pakistan Navy for use by the Agosta Bs in its inventory? Beyond the pride Arihant will no doubt induce in the top naval brass by putting Arihant on show, and the frisson it may generate at the review with every adversary and friendly participating navy trying to get a fix on the Indian SSBN, what exactly is sought to be achieved by NHQ?? Considering how careful the navy has all along been in not even exposing the Kilo SSKs to US naval scrutiny in the Malabar exercises until the last one, going so public with the SSBN is nothing short of strategic disaster that bids fair to heedlessly endanger operations of the Arihant class of ships once they get fully seaborne, with the first boat pulling long distance patrols armed with nuclear-tipped missiles starting in 2017.

Time to swallow pride Mr. Dhowan and do the right thing: Pull the Arihant from the PFR, pronto, lest you eliminate even that slight strategic advantage an unexposed Indian SSBN poses PLAN and Chinese interests west of Malacca! If the CNS doesn’t relent, it is time for the defmin Manohar Parrikar to show some political leadership for a change, rather than acquiescing in every damn-fool measure instituted by the military services even when these violate common sense, and ORDER the navy to keep the Arihant under heavy wraps, especially from prying eyes at the 2016 PFR.
-----
Do u think Mr Karnad that IN has no IQ or a team of dumb fools who could not see through what you are suggesting and what is evident to layman like me for a long time even before your suggestion today? I dont think they are fools…Or the political leadership is dumb headed…Must be they have something in their mind…..

Now another piece of news about IN will make you go crazy and will make IAF and IA laugh as they have always been at the receiving end of your indigenization bullet…On Jan 29th, a team from Dassault Aviation will be meeting IN officials for a detailed briefing about Naval Rafale, which, by all indications IN has decided as its next frontline plane for INS Vishal….IN will acquire 54 of them and the political leadership is happy with that as having a common platform for both IAF and IN will reduce spares and maintenance costs….

So, maybe its time for you to introspect on Rafale and stop blasting the IAF for their choice keeping IN as the goalpost of indigenization….

Bharat Karnad on January 24, 2016 at 3:16 pm


Sorry, I forgot to mention the Navy’s prospective indent for navalized Rafale as one of the recent wrong decisions. The reason I didn’t is because I’m not certain it was not prompted by PMO (with the first mooting of this purchase by the Quay d’Orsay in its interactions with NSA, Ajit Doval). This is a thoroughly awful and financially ruinous and unsustainable proposal that compounds the problems relating to IAF’s Rafale acquisition deal. This leads to my conclusion that GOI acts wrongly so often and in so boneheaded a fashion, it is no wonder very little is going right with the country — which tendency, I for one had hoped, PM Modi would by now have corrected. But, alas, that isn’t so.
--

Honestly can't wait until RM says stfu & take Tejas mk2. Its slow speed performance is same as rafale.

Turn radius 350m Vs 450 f16. Tejas mk2 should be able to get 280 300.

 

[aditya g]

......Honestly can't wait until RM says stfu & take Tejas mk2....

As we speak, the future of Tejas Mk2 is uncertain, as the immediate air force requirement will be met by Mk1A. It seems the F404 equipped Mk1 is made up of the right stuff, and if the Air Force is happy enough then you might see continued production run of the same.

Previously Navy jumped on the Mark2 program, essentially making it a Navy plane first, while fulfilling all air force needs. Now with IAF commitment absent, can Navy alone make the case for its development?

Any idea whether Navy has commited to Mark1 NLCA in any form? say even as LIFT trainer for SBTF? That will be a good takeaway for now