Indian Naval Aviation

SajeevJino

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

Mig-29K has a combat radius of 1000km, which is sufficient for most carrier-borne tasks.
really Sir..due to Ski Jump this is not possible sir .!! otherwise we need proper aerial Tankers specially for Naval Air arm

earlier some mentioned V22 Based Tankers for Such operation that only can provide that 1000km combat radii
 

Singh

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

The MK-1 is not suitable for carrier deployment due to low range. The carrier deployment will come with MK-2.
Mig-29K is the only carrier-borne fighter in near future. Mig-29K has a combat radius of 1000km, which is sufficient for most carrier-borne tasks.
We have the following options for future aircraft carriers :

N-LCA(STOBAR), Mig29K(STOBAR), Rafale-M (STOBAR), and F-35B/C (SVOTL/STOBAR).

F-18 is CATOBAR.
 

sgarg

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

really Sir..due to Ski Jump this is not possible sir .!! otherwise we need proper aerial Tankers specially for Naval Air arm

earlier some mentioned V22 Based Tankers for Such operation that only can provide that 1000km combat radii
How much will be the impact of ski-jump? The K carries 5240kg internal fuel.
 

sgarg

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

We have the following options for future aircraft carriers :

N-LCA(STOBAR), Mig29K(STOBAR), Rafale-M (STOBAR), and F-35B/C (SVOTL/STOBAR).

F-18 is CATOBAR.
With the current and future budgets that can be seen today, N-LCA and Mig-29K are the ones which are practical options.
 

aditya g

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

We have the following options for future aircraft carriers :

N-LCA(STOBAR), Mig29K(STOBAR), Rafale-M (STOBAR), and F-35B/C (SVOTL/STOBAR).

F-18 is CATOBAR.
... so is Rafale-M.

F-35 is either CATOBAR or VTOL. There is no STOBAR variant.
 

Singh

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

... so is Rafale-M.

F-35 is either CATOBAR or VTOL. There is no STOBAR variant.
F-35C and Rafale-M are considered or under process of being determined STOBAR compatible. You can google the keywords.

Here is a rendition of a F-35C from a ski-deck by BAE

 

Apollyon

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

F-35C and Rafale-M are considered or under process of being determined STOBAR compatible. You can google the keywords.

Here is a rendition of a F-35C from a ski-deck by BAE
F-35B


10SardarChar
 

SajeevJino

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

F-35C and Rafale-M are considered or under process of being determined STOBAR compatible. You can google the keywords.

Here is a rendition of a F-35C from a ski-deck by BAE

saar, That's a VTOL version of F 35 B

the HMS Queen Elizabeth Deck is clear and Shiny, will not host any Arresting Gears,


STOBAR uses Arresting Gears for Landing, unlike F 35 B in HMS Queen Elizabeth lands in Vertical, Just like AV 8B
 

Pulkit

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MIG-29k stands no where near Tejas MK2 ..
Kunal Sir please share the reference to support your argument.
I do not think these two can be compared as MIG 29K are operational and Tejas MK2 is yet to be even designed fully.
 

Kunal Biswas

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MIG-29K fall short of many things, Compare to MK1 >>

1. Stealth design and Radar absorbing coating > MIG-29K is all metal Aircraft, It has no stealth properties unlike Tejas has very high level of composite airframe, And gets special anti-radar coating and Y design intake ..
2. ECMS > MIG-29K does not has any internal EW suit, Where Tejas comes Integrated internal suite, with both RWR & jamming capability.
3. Engine > modern more reliable powerplant with FADEC for Tejas, MIG-29K does not.
4. Radar > AESA for MK2, MIG-29K does not.
5. Adaptability to Western and Indian Weapon and Avionics, MIG-29K does not ..
6. DASH HMDS with 90 degree off-bore sight, Where as MIG`s has only 45 degree offbore sight ..

MK2 is essentially MK1 modified, MK2 will have more fuel and a more powerful engine ..



Kunal Sir please share the reference to support your argument.I do not think these two can be compared as MIG 29K are operational and Tejas MK2 is yet to be even designed fully.
 

Punya Pratap

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MIG-29K fall short of many things, Compare to MK1 >>

1. Stealth design and Radar absorbing coating > MIG-29K is all metal Aircraft, It has no stealth properties unlike Tejas has very high level of composite airframe, And gets special anti-radar coating and Y design intake ..
2. ECMS > MIG-29K does not has any internal EW suit, Where Tejas comes Integrated internal suite, with both RWR & jamming capability.
3. Engine > modern more reliable powerplant with FADEC for Tejas, MIG-29K does not.
4. Radar > AESA for MK2, MIG-29K does not.
5. Adaptability to Western and Indian Weapon and Avionics, MIG-29K does not ..
6. DASH HMDS with 90 degree off-bore sight, Where as MIG`s has only 45 degree offbore sight ..

MK2 is essentially MK1 modified, MK2 will have more fuel and a more powerful engine ..
Dear Kunal,

For once I will disagree with you and hope you take it sportingly :)

SOURCE : MiG-29K Carrier-Based Multirole Fighter Aircraft - Naval Technology
MiG-29K Carrier-Based Multirole Fighter Aircraft, Russia

MiG-29K is an all-weather carrier-based multirole fighter aircraft being produced by Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RAC MiG). The aircraft is also offered in a two-seat operational trainer variation known as the MiG-29KUB. The MiG-29K/KUB aircraft are designed to operate from aircraft-carriers with a minimum displacement of 28,000t and airfields. The aircraft has a length of 17.3m, height of 4.4m and a wingspan of 11.9m. The maximum take-off weight is 24,500kg.

Orders and deliveries of the Russian MiG-29K

"MiG-29K is an all-weather carrier-based multirole fighter aircraft being produced by Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RAC MiG)."
In January 2004, India placed an order for 12 MiG-29K single-seat and four MiG-29KUB two-seat fighters. Deliveries of the aircraft began in December 2009. Six aircraft were delivered by the end of 2010. The MiG-29K entered operational service with Indian Navy in February 2010.
In March 2010, India signed a $1.5bn contract with Russia for an additional 29 MiG-29Ks. Deliveries are expected to start in 2012.
In May 2011, five MiG-29K / KUBs and a flight simulator were delivered to the Indian Navy under the first contract, with further deliveries planned through 2011. The fighters will be based on the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya. The Vikramaditya is expected to carry up to 24 MiG-29K/KUB fighters. The Vikrant Class future indigenous aircraft carrier currently being built by India will also accommodate the MiG-29K/KUB aircraft.
The Russian Navy ordered 24 MiG-29Ks in late 2009 for Kuznetsov Class heavy aircraft carrying cruiser. Deliveries of the MiG-29K for the Russian Navy began in 2010.
On 23 June 2011, a MiG-29KUB of the Indian Navy crashed during a flight test in Astrakhan region, Russia. The crash, which occurred due to pilot's error, killed both the pilots on board. In August 2011, RAC MiG however announced the deliveries will be made as per the schedule.
MiG-29K development history

The MiG-29K project was initiated in the late 1970s to meet the requirements of the Soviet Navy for a supersonic carrier-based fighter. The first proof of concept version, MiG-29KVP, was developed based on the MiG-29M.
The MiG-29KVP completed its maiden flight in August 1982. The aircraft with new undercarriage and folding wings of greater area, differed from the MiG-29 production model.
The first MiG-29K took to the skies on 23 July 1988. The aircraft performed its first carrier landing on the aircraft-carrying cruiser Tbilisi (now Admiral Kuznetsov) on 1 November 1989. The project was halted due to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Mikoyan continued the development and struggled with funding issues until it received orders from India. The MiG-29KUB aircraft completed its first flight in January 2007.

MiG-29K design features

The MiG-29K features a strengthened airframe and undercarriage suitable for landing on aircraft carriers. The airframe is made of about 15% composite materials. The aircraft is fitted with folding wings, arrestor hook and a catapult for carrier operations. The radar signature of the aircraft is reduced by four to five times over the basic MiG-29.
The MiG-29K is fitted with more powerful RD-33MK engines, replacing the RD-33K turbofan engines used in the early prototypes. The flight hours of the fighter are doubled, but the flight hour cost is reduced by about 2.5 times. The aircraft can operate without overhaul.
The single and double seat variations feature the same airborne equipment and weapons. The MiG-29KUB two-seat fighter is primarily intended for pilot training, but can also conduct combat missions similar to the single-seat fighter.The glass cockpit of the MiG-29K aircraft accommodates one pilot. It is equipped with three multifunctional colour LCDs, a digital fly-by-wire flight control system and TopOwl helmet-mounted targeting system.

MiG-29K avionics systems

The airborne avionics based on open architecture are classified under MIL-STD-1553B standard. The open architecture allows the installation of new equipment and weapons according to customer requirements.

The fighter has multirole, multimode Zhuk-ME pulse doppler radar from Fazotron-NIIP Corporation. The radar with the slot array has wider scanning angle and longer target detection range. Zhuk-ME can track up to ten air targets while engaging four targets simultaneously.
The MiG-29K/KUB fighters have multichannel infra-red search and track (IRST) system with target designation system. The aircraft can also be installed with IR and laser sighting devices for ground targets illumination.
Weapon systems on the Russian-built MiG-29K carrier-based multirole fighter

MiG-29K is armed with RVV-AE and R-73E air-to-air missiles, Kh-31A and Kh-35E anti-ship missiles and Kh-31P anti-radar missiles. Other armaments include guided aerial bombs, rockets and aerial bombs.
"In January 2004, India placed an order for 12 MiG-29K single-seat and four MiG-29KUB two-seat fighters."
The aircraft is mounted with a 30mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 100 rounds. A wide range of weapons can be added upon the request of the customer.
MiG-29K/KUB is the only ship-borne fighter in the world to fire Kh-31A supersonic anti-ship missiles resistant to air-defence.
The MiG-29K is powered by two RD-33MK engines equipped with smokeless combustion chamber and new full authority digital engine control (FADEC) system.
The power plant provides a ferry range of 2,000km. The range can be increased to 3,000km with three underwing fuel drop tanks.

The aircraft's avionics will be based on MIL-STD 1533 bus. Although primarily to be armed with Russian weapons, Western weapons may be offered as an option. Integration of Western-made weapons is not expected to present problems, as RSK MiG has amassed experience of a variety of Western weapon systems during development of the Russian-French MiG-AT jet trainer and the mating the Kopyo radar on the MiG-21-93 for the IAF. The aircraft will also feature Sagem's Sigma-95 INS cum GPS receiver navigation system. Indian industry will supply the following equipment;

"¢ A radio altimeter.
"¢ An ELINT (Electronic Intelligence) set developed jointly with Russian avionics houses.
"¢ An active ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) pod carried on the #8 hard point under the starboard wing.
"¢ A UHF (ultra-high frequency) radio, which is also fitted to the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI air dominance fighter.
"¢ Two short-range radio navigation systems (for tactical area navigation and approach/landing) manufactured under licence from Thales.


I also love the concept of Tejas Mk 2 but the fact that in range and in weapons load it is way below the Mig 29 K's and for a carrier based fighter these things matter a lot!!
 

akshay m

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Dear Kunal,

For once I will disagree with you and hope you take it sportingly :)
add this too

RD-33MK
The RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" (Russian: Морская Оса: "Sea Wasp") is the latest model developed in 2001. It is intended to power the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB shipborne fighters, however it has also been adopted for the MiG-35. The RD-33MK develops 7% higher thrust, is digitally controlled FADEC and smokeless unlike earlier RD-33 engines, has increased afterburner thrust to 9,000 kilograms-force (88,000 N; 20,000 lbf) and dry weight 1,145 kilograms (2,524 lb) compared to the baseline model through modern materials used on the cooled blades, although it retains the same length and maximum diameter. Incorporated is an infrared and optical signature visibility reduction systems. Service life has been increased to 4,000 hours. The RD-33MK ensures shipborne fighters unassisted take-off capability, retain performance in hot climate environment and, naturally, a boost in combat efficiency for MiG-29 fighter latest varianthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33.



not to mention , one of the paki thunder bhandher pilots say ,(i don't trust them , but where there is smoke there is fire)

According to Air Commodore Mehmood engines are solid and reliable: "We've flown 7,000 hours with the engine and we haven't had any problems", he said

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33#cite_note-4
 
Last edited:

Punya Pratap

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add this too

RD-33MK


not to mention , one of the paki thunder bhandher pilots say ,(i don't trust them , but where there is smoke there is fire)
Sorry I forgot to highlight the RD 33 MK features which were also mentioned in the article posted by me :)
 

Zebra

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MIG-29K fall short of many things, Compare to MK1 >>

1. Stealth design and Radar absorbing coating > MIG-29K is all metal Aircraft, It has no stealth properties unlike Tejas has very high level of composite airframe, And gets special anti-radar coating and Y design intake ..
2. ECMS > MIG-29K does not has any internal EW suit, Where Tejas comes Integrated internal suite, with both RWR & jamming capability.
3. Engine > modern more reliable powerplant with FADEC for Tejas, MIG-29K does not.
4. Radar > AESA for MK2, MIG-29K does not.
5. Adaptability to Western and Indian Weapon and Avionics, MIG-29K does not ..
6. DASH HMDS with 90 degree off-bore sight, Where as MIG`s has only 45 degree offbore sight ..

MK2 is essentially MK1 modified, MK2 will have more fuel and a more powerful engine ..
There are at-least two AESA radars exists which can go on MiG-29. :wink:
 

Khagesh

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add this too

RD-33MK

not to mention , one of the paki thunder bhandher pilots say ,(i don't trust them , but where there is smoke there is fire)
This is typically how the Russians have been working. They are not afraid for inducting a lesser tech if it can get the job done. Then slowly they improve. You can also see the development of AL31 engine also. Even today they have a high thrust variant (poor life) for initial testing of PAKFA and a longer life derated version for Su35.

Looks like it could be similar for the new engine they are making for PAKFA. PAKFA will come in cheaper but with smaller life for the engines that means a comparable cost can only be had after budgeting for a re-engining. But then their engines too come in cheap. So the overall deal remains inexpensive. Slowly after they have the PAKFA mature as a platform they will work on the engine also to mature it for lifecycle management.

But if India decides to get all its eggs in the Western baskets then I will not be surprised if all of these engines end up in China with knockoffs to Pakis as well.

Then all the American fanboys can fly their Rafales and F-35 in IAF colors :rofl:taking on the knock off fifth gens in Paki inventory.

In their dreams.
 

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