Indian Naval Aviation

[ahmedsid]

I hate to tell you but China already has a Large Aircraft Carrier (ex-Varyag) and Fighters to fly off it. (acquired illegally of course)

Dude, check the Chinese Section, you can see all these have been debunked many a times. No one has the time here to again and again drill some sense into all your minds! Would help if you take a look through the China Defence Section and see how many of your theories have been bunked, right from HQ9 to Su33!!!!

 

[SATISH]

I hate to tell you but China already has a Large Aircraft Carrier (ex-Varyag) and Fighters to fly off it. (acquired illegally of course)

Well how are they planning to sail the carrier without the boiler in it? Any new plasma propulsion?

 

[Crusader53]

Sorry, you guys can believe what you want. Yet, when the ex-Varyag sails under a Chinese Flag equipped with Reverse Engineered Su-33's. (i.e. J-15's) Your going to look awfully foolish. Nonetheless, time will tell........


BTW If your conviction are so weak that you have to use sarcasm or name calling. Maybe your position is not nearly as strong as you mite think. Regardless, I am not interested in any flame war. Just a "peaceful and respectful" debate.

 

[Crusader53]

Well how are they planning to sail the carrier without the boiler in it? Any new plasma propulsion?

Respectfully, you have no way of knowing what China has did internally to the ex-Varyag. Yet, from external sources we know a great deal.........Clearly, China intends to return the Carrier to Service.

Your sarcasm not with standing........

 

[AJSINGH]

the best thing for IN ( about fighter aircraft in air arm ) would be 60Mig29K( enough to serve on all the three AC) and further buying of the navalised version of the winner of MMRCA

 

[SATISH]

Respectfully, you have no way of knowing what China has did internally to the ex-Varyag. Yet, from external sources we know a great deal.........Clearly, China intends to return the Carrier to Service.

Your sarcasm not with standing........

Yes. the ex-Varyag or the new Beijing Class might sail. But Once the Varyag hull is cut the whole world will know it. The Ex-Varyag hull has not been touched. Reversed Engineered Sukhoi is possible but the PLAN might deploy its first carrier for sea trials only by 2012. And What aircrafts will they feild? J 11B(N) is most unlikely because it has a lot of problems to overcome. Every country in th world has moved away from Heavy Class fighters on it's AC because of higher operating costs. Even Russia is replacing it's Su 33 to MiG 29K after we went for the MiG 29K even though the Su series were a proven design

The Ex-Varyag is an old Kuznetsov carrier with all of the basic components not placed. They have done De-Magnetisation of the hull and it will surely take atleast more than an year to deploy it into the sea.

 

[AJSINGH]

^^^^ and a lot more time to develop tactics

 

[Crusader53]

Yes. the ex-Varyag or the new Beijing Class might sail. But Once the Varyag hull is cut the whole world will know it. The Ex-Varyag hull has not been touched. Reversed Engineered Sukhoi is possible but the PLAN might deploy its first carrier for sea trials only by 2012. And What aircrafts will they feild? J 11B(N) is most unlikely because it has a lot of problems to overcome. Every country in th world has moved away from Heavy Class fighters on it's AC because of higher operating costs. Even Russia is replacing it's Su 33 to MiG 29K after we went for the MiG 29K even though the Su series were a proven design

The Ex-Varyag is an old Kuznetsov carrier with all of the basic components not placed. They have done De-Magnetisation of the hull and it will surely take atleast more than an year to deploy it into the sea.

Respectfully, I believe you are incorrect. I believe China would put the ex-Yaryag back in service with a wing off J-15's. Which, will be followed in another ~10-15 years by a totally new Carrier equipped with "Stealthy" 5th Generation Fighters. That's just my personal opinion.......

Time will prove one of us correct..........Yet, its very foolish to underestimate the Chinese.

 

[AJSINGH]

Respectfully, I believe you are incorrect. I believe China would put the ex-Yaryag back in service with a wing off J-15's. Which, will be followed in another ~10-15 years by a totally new Carrier equipped with "Stealthy" 5th Generation Fighters. That's just my personal opinion.......

Time will prove one of us correct..........Yet, its very foolish to underestimate the Chinese.

stealthy 5th gen aircraft , we members on DFI will all be surprised if they are able to perfect J-11naval variant

 

[Crusader53]

stealthy 5th gen aircraft , we members on DFI will all be surprised if they are able to perfect J-11naval variant

Well, they perfected the J-10.......[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

 

[SATISH]

Respectfully, I believe you are incorrect. I believe China would put the ex-Yaryag back in service with a wing off J-15's. Which, will be followed in another ~10-15 years by a totally new Carrier equipped with "Stealthy" 5th Generation Fighters. That's just my personal opinion.......

Time will prove one of us correct..........Yet, its very foolish to underestimate the Chinese.

Yes and what are we going to do about it other than grovel over that fact? Varyag will go in the future but not within the next two years as they neither have the engine to operate from an AC nor do they have enough number of planes to operate from the Varyag.

 

[SATISH]

Well, they perfected the J-10.......[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

Wow that is news to me. They perfected J 10. when where? It still has the Russian engine in it. The Russians can pull their strings. The J 10 is not perfected yet. It will be as soon as J 10B enters mass production.

 

[Crusader53]

Wow that is news to me. They perfected J 10. when where? It still has the Russian engine in it. The Russians can pull their strings. The J 10 is not perfected yet. It will be as soon as J 10B enters mass production.

It sounds like China is making progress with the WS-10 finally. Yet, becareful about throwing that first stone. As China has had much more success with the J-10. Then India has with the LCA...............With all do respect!

 

[SATISH]

It sounds like China is making progress with the WS-10 finally. Yet, becareful about throwing that first stone. As China has had much more success with the J-10. Then India has with the LCA...............With all do respect!

Yes but the WS 10 has not reached a level of maturity to be used in Maine operations onboard an AC. And LCA is a total success. It is our first second attempt jumping generations and is entering mass production in 2012. 7 years away from the Chinese J 10 first induction. If the LCA is going to be on an AC iwill carry either the GE 414 and EJ 200 with EJ 200 having more than 10k hours of flight in its kitty and the GE 414 having immeasurable number of hours of marine operations. The Indo-Israeli MMR radar is also working fine and we have been operating aircraft carriers for nearly 50 years and we are well versed with the problems we might encounter with carrier operations.

I accept they can bring together their CBG faster than us. But they also have to face every problem on their own and they have no one to help them out.

 

[AJSINGH]

It sounds like China is making progress with the WS-10 finally. Yet, becareful about throwing that first stone. As China has had much more success with the J-10. Then India has with the LCA...............With all do respect!

we are comparing of WS-10 with Kaveri engine

 

[Crusader53]

stealthy 5th gen aircraft , we members on DFI will all be surprised if they are able to perfect J-11naval variant

People are surprised everyday.......

 

[Crusader53]

we are comparing of WS-10 with Kaveri engine

Not at all........apples and oranges.

 

[Crusader53]

Yes but the WS 10 has not reached a level of maturity to be used in Maine operations onboard an AC. And LCA is a total success. It is our first second attempt jumping generations and is entering mass production in 2012. 7 years away from the Chinese J 10 first induction. If the LCA is going to be on an AC iwill carry either the GE 414 and EJ 200 with EJ 200 having more than 10k hours of flight in its kitty and the GE 414 having immeasurable number of hours of marine operations. The Indo-Israeli MMR radar is also working fine and we have been operating aircraft carriers for nearly 50 years and we are well versed with the problems we might encounter with carrier operations.

I accept they can bring together their CBG faster than us. But they also have to face every problem on their own and they have no one to help them out.

Sorry, the LCA is far from Successful nor is it in Wide Scale Service. It may one day with a F414, EJ200, or M88E. Yet, only time will tell. Plus, the (N) LCA is many years behind its landbased cousin.


BTW The J-10 is in Squadron Service with many Aircraft and China has a even more Advance Model. (i.e. J-10B) Just about ready to follow the earlier Models.

 

[AJSINGH]

Sorry, the LCA is far from Successful nor is it in Wide Scale Service. It may one day with a F414, EJ200, or M88E. Yet, only time will tell. Plus, the (N) LCA is many years behind its landbased cousin.


BTW The J-10 is in Squadron Service with many Aircraft and China has a even more Advance Model. (i.e. J-10B) Just about ready to follow the earlier Models.

the NLCA which will serve with IN will be the MkII version of the current LCA ,which includes ASEA radar , more powerfull engine and better elctronic warfare system , so as of now we cant say which aircraft is better,so lets refrain from doing so

 

[SATISH]

Sorry, the LCA is far from Successful nor is it in Wide Scale Service. It may one day with a F414, EJ200, or M88E. Yet, only time will tell. Plus, the (N) LCA is many years behind its landbased cousin.


BTW The J-10 is in Squadron Service with many Aircraft and China has a even more Advance Model. (i.e. J-10B) Just about ready to follow the earlier Models.

Crusader. China Dosent have an AC till 2012. and we will have 2 CBG in 2012. Chinese still are testing their aircrafts to fly on their aircrafts. They need to develop tactics for it. We have operated an AC since 1950s and we are well versed in it. Having a weapon system and having a tactics for weapon system is different. Having just one of them wont work. The PLAAF has a very strong air arm. I don't deny it. But what does PLAN have? A few shore based J-8 Finback. We already have a squadron of Harriers armed with BVRAAM Derby and the Python-V. And there is an order of MiG 29k for 2 squadrons already. And the Naval LCA and the N-MMRCA is on the anvil.

I never told the J 10 is a bad aircraft. It is good but it is not going on the aircraft carrier. The J 11B (ripped of SU 33 Prototype) is going o be usd. They still dont know how the real Su 33 looks like. The bought the transfer of the T 10K and not the Su 33.

You need to understand the naval tactics when it comes to Carrier battles. A high end fighter is an asset. But it is always hit by availability problems. That is why the whole world has moved away from the heavy air superiority aircrafts to the medium weight aircrafts. The Kuznetsov will be carrying the MiG 29k and you know why? The amount of fuel and weapons carried by the Su 33 from the Kuznetsov is as good as the MiG 29 K carrying the same payload. The number of aircrafts carried by the AC is also higher thus increasing the availability of the aircraft for missions. US navy also dropped the F 22 design for the less stealthy F 35 why? This was the same reason. The USN retired the F 14D because of high operating costs and lesser availability.