Indian Naval Aviation

[Sridhar]

Navy assures operation of MiG 29Ks in deep sea

TNN, Feb 19, 2010, 12.01am IST


PANAJI: Reacting to criticism that it kept mum even while the state populace panicked on hearing explosion-like sounds over the last few days, the Indian Navy claimed that it had no idea itself, until Tuesday, that the sounds were sonic booms from its aircraft.

It also assured that further operations of the aircraft would be carried out at least 15 nautical miles off the Goa coastline.

Speaking to the media after a briefing on MiG 29K to be inducted into the naval air arm on Friday, Captain Surendra Ahuja, commanding officer, INS Hansa admitted: "We were conducting flight tests in the south sector."

"After the sounds were heard at Canacona, we ourselves were unsure about what the cause was. However, there was plenty of conflicting information going around too - that there were a series of blasts heard etc.

However, when people said that they heard the sounds at Arambol too, it figured with our records as we were conducting tests in the north sector," he said.

"Henceforth, we will only conduct the aircraft's operations in the deep sea. It will be held westward, 15 miles off the coast," Ahuja added.

The Indian Navy has admitted that the sounds were sonic booms created by the aircraft whilst transiting to supersonic speeds.

Meanwhile, Union defence minister A K Antony will arrive in Goa on Friday to formally induct the MiG 29 K into the naval air arm at INS Hansa, Dabolim. The new squadron, nicknamed 'Black Panthers', will be led by captain A D Theophilus.

The aircraft has been procured from Russia for deployment aboard the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov which is being re-fitted and re-christened as the INS Vikramaditya and will commence its new lease of life at sea only by December 2012.

The MiG-29K's flight operation on the aircraft carrier will be in the Short Take Off But Arrested Landing (STOBAR) configuration. For this, India has established a STOBAR facility at INS Hansa, and claims to be only the second country in the world to do this, besides Russia.

India had purchased 16 Mig 29K aircraft as part of a 1.5 billion dollar deal for Gorshkov, signed with Russia in 2004.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-MiG-29Ks-in-deep-sea/articleshow/5589852.cms

 

[nitesh]

repeat of old news

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-combat-jets-for-navy/articleshow/5592194.cms

"As per the navy's requirements we will be buying 29 additional fighter aircraft from Russia," Antony told reporters after formally inducting the navy's first four MiG-29Ks.

 

[bengalraider]

Induction of Mig-29K into IN, the ceremonies

 

[ZOOM]

Why Does this newly acquired Mig-29K's looks very old and rusty in their Cemo? One should rather admire adjoining Jaguar for its swanky and clean appearance.

 

[Rahul Singh]

ZOOM. Its a new camouflage scheme of "Black Panthers". Duller the shine, more invisible, jet will be in air. Specially handy during dog-fight.

 

[ZOOM]

Yes Rahul, even I was of a similar view but such camo more suits to smaller Harriers, Mig-21, Jaguar and Tejas. At the end of the day, Fulcrum is heavy weight jet and there is very little you can do to bring obscurity in the eyes of enemy pilot by having such cemo, I would rather choose much more powerful EW suits to competely jam the radar system of enemy jet.

Anyway, Rahul what's your take about smoky engines of fulcrums, are they still fume excess smoke or similar the case with this newly acquired Fulcrum?

One more question, Isn't Indian Navy has taken incorrect decision of procuring this Fulcrums for Naval role?

 

[nitesh]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/photos-limited-upgrade-sea-harrier-lush.html

 

[Rahul Singh]

ZOOM: Its always better to do something than doing nothing, this could be the reason why Navy have opted for this. Interestingly even MKI sports similar paint scheme......Well its a game of equal possibility If one can jam others then that guy can also jam his. So you can not totally depend on EW and wisely be prepared for any eventuality.

RD-33MK is a radical improvement over old RD-33 smoky engine and problem is solved to that extent that it need not to mentioned any more. The video posted by Dark_Prince confirms.

Initially Navy was interested in Dassault Rafalel but later ran out of options because the erstwhile Admiral Gorshkov now INS Vikramaditya was offered for free(what a joke today) to India on condition that Navy will buy Russian fighters and armament for retrofitting it. Then Navy opted for Su-33 but have to dump this plan because of large wing span of the jet. Then only option left was advanced version of Mig-29K. But this doesn't means that Mig-29K is a bad option. There is no fighter in PAF, except new F-16,which can match its lethality.

 

[nitesh]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/photos-ilyushin-38-sea-dragon.html

 

[ZOOM]

ZOOM: Its always better to do something than doing nothing, this could be the reason why Navy have opted for this. Interestingly even MKI sports similar paint scheme......Well its a game of equal possibility If one can jam others then that guy can also jam his. So you can not totally depend on EW and wisely be prepared for any eventuality.

RD-33MK is a radical improvement over old RD-33 smoky engine and problem is solved to that extent that it need not to mentioned any more. The video posted by Dark_Prince confirms.

Initially Navy was interested in Dassault Rafalel but later ran out of options because the erstwhile Admiral Gorshkov now INS Vikramaditya was offered for free(what a joke today) to India on condition that Navy will buy Russian fighters and armament for retrofitting it. Then Navy opted for Su-33 but have to dump this plan because of large wing span of the jet. Then only option left was advanced version of Mig-29K. But this doesn't means that Mig-29K is a bad option. There is no fighter in PAF, except new F-16,which can match its lethality.

Rahul, I am very sorry to say, this is exactly were we Indians are known for our lack of foresight when it comes to selection of Weaponized assets for Naval Purpose. Our leaders are too Pak centeric when it comes to procurement and don’t feel to get alarmed unless Pak choses something very state of the art(which is not the case since last two decades for PAF,PN) which can seriously challange our supremancy. Political leaders are still not able to come with the terms to seriously looks towards Eastern Himalyan border where Chinese are fast deploying their Heavy weight jets in the form of Sukhoi's and J-10s.

Russian AC and Mig-29k's are the product of similar lack of foresight which we are looking to gobble to maintain our control on vast ocean, there is no denying to fact that INS Vikramaditya will prove to be more of a liability then stretegic assets as it will only give us some increased capability of increased range and payload of Mig-29k and nothing more then that as compared to Harrier equipped INS Vikrant.

 

[Rahul Singh]

ZOOM: I don't think buying Mig-29Ks was a pak centric decision. Navy bought Mig-29K because it didn't have any options. However one can't deny fact that Mig-29Ks are lethal weapon and provide Navy capability beyond fleet air defence. Long range of Mig-29K gives Navy capability to carry out shore and inland strike and this is all new dimension to Navy, after the retirement of Sea Hawks, which they lacked with Harriers. Today with INS Vikramaditya, India have the capability to carry a floating airbase equipped with formidable fighters to almost 8000NM away from our shores. And this from now way a minor development, having fighters like Mig-29K on floating airbase is a bloody big deal. Till today, all the oil tankers going to PRC passes through IOR and during hostilities with help of Vikramaditya CBG, Navy can chock this lifeline and consequences will help Indian cause only. So, in my opinion it will not be liability.

This is GOI, which reacts to available threats. Allow me to go so far to say that they don't lack foresight they don't have it at all. Yes, we are behind PRC in Himalayan sector, bad is that it took all most ten years for GOI to acknowledge. I am in no shame to say that IAF is in no position to tackle the situation if catastrophe hits. Although situation is improving but in my opinion it will take whole 10 years from now to put a formidable defence. Can only say "God willing worst does hit in mid"

 

[LETHALFORCE]

many of these issues could have been avoided if the naval LCA went smoothly the 3-4 year delay is a shame, but the MIG-29 is a deadly fighter to have in the naval side.

 

[gb009]

Since the Mig29Ks can be refueled mid-air will our carriers have planes equipped to refuel them in flight?

 

[Rahul Singh]

many of these issues could have been avoided if the naval LCA went smoothly the 3-4 year delay is a shame, but the MIG-29 is a deadly fighter to have in the naval side.

LF even Mig-29 was delayed by almost 2 years and now F-35 getting delayed like hell. What i'm trying to say is that these things are usual and for those like we who do not have any experience in developing similar it could be called normal.....You can expect roll out of NP-1 in april followed by first flight in June.

Since the Mig29Ks can be refueled mid-air will our carriers have planes equipped to refuel them in flight?

Like F/A-18, Mig-29Ks, in deep seas, will depend on their KUB version for mid air refuelling and close to shores IAF's IL-78MKI can support them.

 

[Sridhar]

Navy to begin expansion at Dabolim

BY : TOI
The Indian Navy has decided to go ahead with its expansion plans at the Dabolim airport. Preparations are under way to build a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) which will be used by its Light Combat Aircrafts (LCAs) and MiG 29K fighter jets.
The SBTF, which is being set up at the naval station INS Hansa, is meant to train fighter pilots before they attempt take-off and landing on aircraft carriers.
Giving mediapersons a brief synopsis a day before the MiG 29Ks were inducted into the naval air arm, Commanding Officer (CO) of the INS Hansa, captain Surendra Ahuja, said that the SBTF in India will be only the second of its kind in the world, with Russia being the only other country to have this facility.
Ahuja also outlined the Navy’s expansion plans for several new facilities at the airport, where three additional hangars and two simulators will be built.
Work on constructing a 1,255 m strip is also underway for the SBTF facility he added. A feature of the project will be the ski-jump facing the seafront. This ski jump will be a replica of the same facility available on board the mother ship for the MiG 29Ks — the INS Vikramaditya — which is being refitted and which will only sail by December 2012.
Since the MiG-29K’s flight operation on the aircraft carrier will be in the Short Take Off But Arrested Landing (STOBAR) configuration, two wire arresting systems are also being set up at the INS Hansa naval base.
“The STOBAR system will help arrest both the LCAs and the Mig-29Ks safely,” he said.
He said that India is the second country in the world to have a ‘wire arresting’ system, besides Ukraine. American aircraft carriers carry out such operations by using a ‘catapult’ system, he added.




http://idrw.org/?p=597

 

[Rahul Singh]

.............................

 

[mayfair]

Undoubtedly, Su-33 flankers are heavier than Mig-29Ks and it would have been difficult to accommodate them in larger numbers on INS Vikramaditya because of the deck design and capacity. However, Su-33Ks are actually capable of carrying a higher weapons load and a longer range. So one might argue that half the number of flankers (compared to Mig29K) on the deck would do the job. If the same avionics and engine upgrades were to be made on Su-33, no doubt it would be a better option, if some reports that Su-33 actually has smaller footprint than Mig29K are to be believed.

But it does make sense if Mig29K is a stop gap solution till the LCA naval variant and the FGFA naval variant is ready. I wonder if either will have the vertical take off capability of the Sea Harrier.

 

[SATISH]

Undoubtedly, Su-33 flankers are heavier than Mig-29Ks and it would have been difficult to accommodate them in larger numbers on INS Vikramaditya because of the deck design and capacity. However, Su-33Ks are actually capable of carrying a higher weapons load and a longer range. So one might argue that half the number of flankers (compared to Mig29K) on the deck would do the job. If the same avionics and engine upgrades were to be made on Su-33, no doubt it would be a better option, if some reports that Su-33 actually has smaller footprint than Mig29K are to be believed.

But it does make sense if Mig29K is a stop gap solution till the LCA naval variant and the FGFA naval variant is ready. I wonder if either will have the vertical take off capability of the Sea Harrier.

Uhh!!! I guess you are missing out on the aspect of availability where even the best navies only have 80% aircraft availability.

 

[mayfair]

Uhh!!! I guess you are missing out on the aspect of availability where even the best navies only have 80% aircraft availability.

I'm glad you pointed that out; as you say availability is a the key for most navies including our own. So assuming we had acquired the same number of Su-33s as MiG29Ks and would have needed to deploy only half the number at any given time, that would leave more in reserve, ready to be called upon even accounting for the 20% may have been unavailable due to a variety of reasons.

But the point I wish to make is different. Apart from the weight issues, what is it that makes MiG29K a much better option than Su-33s? Avionics? Engines? Design? Payload? Range? Deck footprint?

 

[notinlove]

I'm glad you pointed that out; as you say availability is a the key for most navies including our own. So assuming we had acquired the same number of Su-33s as MiG29Ks and would have needed to deploy only half the number at any given time, that would leave more in reserve, ready to be called upon even accounting for the 20% may have been unavailable due to a variety of reasons.

But the point I wish to make is different. Apart from the weight issues, what is it that makes MiG29K a much better option than Su-33s? Avionics? Engines? Design? Payload? Range? Deck footprint?

What you fail to understand is the difference in roles.....su-33 is mainly an area defence fighter , it was meant to provide the kuzya credible defence against air launched attacks and that is just about it because for attack purposes kuzya contains the deadliest antiship missiles ever made the p700 granit (range 625 km , speed mach 4.5 , 500 kt yield nuclear warhead)

now on the other hand if you look at gorshkov, it doesn't have any attack capability(all missile silos are being removed) , this signifies a change in tactics , what is needed is a true multirole fighter which can do all missions , area defence , anti ship , anti surface .. and that is where the mig 29k fits perfectly , its a tru ultirole fighter.avionics are better tha the su-33 , RCS is reduced , range is debatable for both as it wil be limited by the angle of the ski jump and length of the flight deck(mind you the length of the flight deck on gorshkov will be smaller than that on the kuzya so the mig 29 will obviously make a better choice) , deck footprint is small anyways.