Indian Army wants futuristic vehicle for its Armoured corps

[Mad Indian]

What you are suggesting that there is a tank in the world which you are just incapable of designing and producing. Is not it an admission of incapability? You are a development and research organisation meant to forward but your accusation says look the Indian Army wants an existing technology and they are wrong in doing that !!

This is actually a very valid point. Nothing stopped the DRDO from designing a tank similar to Armada and call it a day. It reeks of incompetence to say something as impossible even as other countries have already done that. Hope the DRDO fanboys here answer it .

What's more funny is how the DRDO fanboys have come to it defence even before DRDO has even issued a statement against this proposal.

 

[Mad Indian]

How many of these people who prepared this RFI actually fought in a real battle? I am willing to assume that an average DRDO scientist is more at risk of being assassinated by foreign spies than these people who prepared this RFI.

The Army has a lot of staff. Many don't see combat.

And one more thing. I used to commute from Borivali to Churchgate. I have seen plenty of people run over by trains after they fell off while trying to get to work. These are all tax paying citizens of India, who lost their lives, just like those guarding the border.

No matter how much you attempt to make your point using cheap pseudo-patriotic and rhetorical sloganeering, you cannot change the specific gravity of Iron, or the energy density of a fuel. Science does not care about life and death. Science is science.

I really want DRDO to simply rebuff this joke of an RFI.

Wow what a load of BS and strawmans(taxpayers duying in trains? Really?). Are you going to give links to anything you have claimed? Do you have proof that people in army who gave this RFI don't have any experience or don't know what they are talking about? How do you know that? I suppose you know more than what people in army do?

And pseudo patriotism is with the morons who talk trash about imports purely on the tag "import" rather than the capability. Is that not why this thread even exist? Would these patriots rather have army fight with domestic junk and lose wars rather than import better equipment and win them?

And what does your strawmans on steel weight has to do with anything?

 

[Rowdy]

Looking at this thread I think Mr. @Bhadra has written this RFI

 

[Bhadra]

Looking at this thread I think Mr. @Bhadra has written this RFI

It is signed by "Director FRCV For Officiating DG Mechanised Forces" a Colonel and I passed that stage a long time back.

An honest admission- that I am not a tank man but can beat any pseudo tank super specialist of DRDO as here hollow when it comes to its applications and requirements.

They have simply rattled you out of your "Avinash Chandra" stupor of being a pushover and bully and exploit this nation in the name of indigenisation and resort to blackmail.

All of you have opened your shops for individual profits .... Complete indigenisation, innovations and completely home built platforms are a loss to the shops. Then why should you do that.
In that case it is better for IA to select agencies for design, prototype building and manufacturing separately with IP rights belonging to IA ... not DRDO ....

 

[Rowdy]

IA to select agencies for design, prototype building and manufacturing separately with IP rights belonging to IA

Communist Spotted .... .... And why are you blaming me. I do not own or run any defence company anywhere in the world.

 

[Bhadra]

Communist Spotted .... .... And why are you blaming me. I do not own or run any defence company anywhere in the world.

I can see through that ... your one liners would not allow you to do much !!...

 

[Bhadra]

Yes, peace and peace here in this thread.... like Siberian Gulag .. where real communists were spotted..
Thanks primarily to @Mad Indian ...

and people making / quoting 48 ton tank to be 58-60 tons for the sake of falsification and to be in their league...

Morons ...

 

[sayareakd]

I just pray to God that our enemies DGMF should be more stupid them ours or else we are screwed big time.

 

[Rowdy]

I just pray to God that our enemies DGMF should be more stupid them ours or else we are screwed big time.

Hahahahaha ....
30 fracking characters

 

[sayareakd]

BTW it looks like they forget to add that tank should fly.

 

[pmaitra]

Wow what a load of BS and strawmans(taxpayers duying in trains? Really?). Are you going to give links to anything you have claimed? Do you have proof that people in army who gave this RFI don't have any experience or don't know what they are talking about? How do you know that? I suppose you know more than what people in army do?

And pseudo patriotism is with the morons who talk trash about imports purely on the tag "import" rather than the capability. Is that not why this thread even exist? Would these patriots rather have army fight with domestic junk and lose wars rather than import better equipment and win them?

And what does your strawmans on steel weight has to do with anything?

No, I have no link to present to prove my daily commute, but you can simply look up the number of deaths in road and rail accidents in India every year.

The RFI is is an apt demonstration of the incompetence of those that have prepared the RFI. Have you been reading the thread at all? They don't even know what kind of bridges this new tank is supposed to operate on. Of course they have no experience, or else, they would have given hard numbers. Even people in DFI can take a reasonable guess as to the caliber, but the RFI is conveniently missing that as well. I have already listed the sheer vagueness of this pathetic excuse of an RFI, but hey, if you don't want to take your head out of the sand, don't let me persuade you to do otherwise.

Who told you domestic products are junk? What domestic junk are you talking about? If I am in a tank in the hot desert of Rajasthan, I'd rather be in domestically made Arjun than be in the imported T-90 whose optics won't work in the scorching heat of the desert of Rajasthan.

Oh wait, the optics will now work, after DRDO installed those "junk" air conditioners and French Catherines.

Do you know every person in the army? My colleague, originally from Roorkee, just this afternoon, told me that he had the privilege of riding the Arjun tank because his dad, now retired, was in the Armoured Corps. He had only good things to say about it, after I prodded him to speak about it. No, I don't have a link for this either. Take it or leave it. Not everyone in the army has the same opinion.

And please ignore that example of iron. The metaphor is lost on you.

 

[pmaitra]

Let IA give a straight forward three men crew requirement with auto loader, and remote controlled turret along with separate crew capsule with 55 ton weight , along with the needed power to weight ratio, ground pressure per square inch, Gun dia and cal along with the needed LOS thickness armor for FICV. CVRDE will deliver a tank much better suited to indian terrain than Armata.After all it is widely reported that most of armata's sensors are imported, so no reason why CVRDE too can not do the same.

Don't ask for numbers. Those that prepared the RFI, would have already done so, if they were remotely capable of producing numbers.

I guess IP rights, or so called "intellectual" property rights, can be obtained by using unquantifiable terms, such as:

"well matched"
"high"
"very high"
"adequately high"​

Also, DRDO (and those that might respond to this RFI) should start hiring astrologers:

"ensure survivability in the contemporary and future battlefield"
​

Ref: http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/445/FRCV RFI.pdf

​

 

[Mad Indian]

No, I have no link to present to prove my daily commute, but you can simply look up the number of deaths in road and rail accidents in India every year.

The RFI is is an apt demonstration of the incompetence of those that have prepared the RFI. Have you been reading the thread at all? They don't even know what kind of bridges this new tank is supposed to operate on. Of course they have no experience, or else, they would have given hard numbers. Even people in DFI can take a reasonable guess as to the caliber, but the RFI is conveniently missing that as well. I have already listed the sheer vagueness of this pathetic excuse of an RFI, but hey, if you don't want to take your head out of the sand, don't let me persuade you to do otherwise..

I read both sides of the story and unlike the fanboys here, I can see why the RFI is this way. I agreed with @Rowdy on the crew size until, @Bhadra clarified why it was left out. From what I have gathered in this thread, I think this RFI is ok. And since Bhadra is the expert on this issue, I will take his words more seriously than any of the pseudo nationalist BS thrown around here about Army incompetence by the DRDO fanboys. And I also noticed that no one dared challenge Bhadra on how DRDO also imports and is no different from the accusations of corruption made on armed forces.

Reg, domestic junk - I dint claim Arjun as a domestic junk. Dont argue a strawman. I said pseudo nationalists are those who oppose a product based on the tag "import" rather than its capabilities and that too with an incomplete understanding of economics behind imports.

 

[pmaitra]

I read both sides of the story and unlike the fanboys here, I can see why the RFI is this way. I agreed with @Rowdy on the crew size until, @Bhadra clarified why it was left out. From what I have gathered in this thread, I think this RFI is ok. And since Bhadra is the expert on this issue, I will take his words more seriously than any of the pseudo nationalist BS thrown around here about Army incompetence by the DRDO fanboys. And I also noticed that no one dared challenge Bhadra on how DRDO also imports and is no different from the accusations of corruption made on armed forces.

Reg, domestic junk - I dint claim Arjun as a domestic junk. Dont argue a strawman. I said pseudo nationalists are those who oppose a product based on the tag "import" rather than its capabilities and that too with an incomplete understanding of economics behind imports.

You can take whoever's word more seriously. You can believe what you want.

I know in medical science, there is a lot of room for subjectivity, such as using a placebo to cure illnesses, or to assist in that process. That does not happen in engineering.

I drive a VolksWagen. I am the user. However, I would not try to argue with those that designed it. That would be stupid.

We are not opposing a product just because it is imported. We are asking for hard numbers to quantify the requirements in the RFI and remove the vagueness.

 

[Mad Indian]

I drive a VolksWagen. I am the user. However, I would not try to argue with those that designed it. That would be stupid.

I would if I am going to drive it to my death to know if it suits my requirements. If it does not, I would simply pick something which does , be it Indian or German. I would also not allow some pseudo nationalists to dictate that I should buy only Indian car even if that would not suit my requirement and would result in my death.

 

[pmaitra]

I would if I am going to drive it to my death to know if it suits my requirements

No you won't be given the opportunity to argue. You could be politely asked to pay for your own ride, if you reject the ride paid for by the taxpayer.

 

[Mad Indian]

No you won't be given the opportunity to argue. You could be politely asked to pay for your own ride, if you reject the ride paid for by the taxpayer.

Yes we should fund Dodo instead of the army awesome choice

Also, this is a retarded reasoning and as a mod you should be above this retarded reasonings. We can't buy from DODO just because dodo made it. Thats what I called as pseudo nationalism.

 

[pmaitra]

Yes we should fund Dodo instead of the army awesome choice

Also, this is a retarded reasoning and as a mod you should be above this retarded reasonings. We can't buy from DODO just because dodo made it. Thats what I called as pseudo nationalism.

Ornithology is a branch of zoology that concerns the study of birds.

I think you are in the wrong thread.

 

[Mad Indian]

Ornithology is a branch of zoology that concerns the study of birds.

I think you are in the wrong thread.

OK. We cant buy fro DRDO just because DRDO made it - that would be pseudo nationalism. Armed forces cant be made to pay for our pseudo nationalism

 

[pmaitra]

OK. We cant buy fro DRDO just because DRDO made it - that would be pseudo nationalism. Armed forces cant be made to pay for our pseudo nationalism

The nation stands behind those troops who carried out the Myanmar operations.

However, not everyone is going to stand behind those that prepared this RFI. Many that do, do so because these people who prepared the RFI are employees of the armed forces, and that, to me, is pseudo-nationalism.

In any event, I think the people who prepared this RFI should find a job that better suits their skill-set. They can write poems, like "The Charge of the Light Brigade." If they want to work in the job of preparing an RFI, I want to see numbers, and units (millimeters, Newtons, kilograms, Watts) in the RFI, not unquantifiable adjectives.