Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

[airstrike99]

Comrades , I have a question about this PCB ammunition of arjun , can it be compared M829a2 round ?

no. not at all

PCB is only used for multi layered spaced bunkers and thin armoured vehicles like BMPs and american bradleys without ERA.

HESH for single layered mud and brick bunkers. found in thousands across rajasthan, punjab and kashmir regions.

TB against infantry in open spaces.

HEAT for only thick concrete bunkers. since it has a rifled gun.

of course for smooth bore guns, they have to fire heat for every small bunker they find here and there.

samho clgm can be fired in both top and direct attack mode. it can destroy every tank in the world that don't have APS attached. name of the tank doesn't matter.

that too top attack as close as 1.5 km to 5km far in top attack mode.


so total types of ammo for arjun

FSAPDS, HEAT, HESH, HE, PCB, TB, ATGM( anti-tank guided missile- both direct and top attack mode in semi-active homing method) = 7 TYPES.

mean while T-90 series fires APFSDS, HEAT, ATGM & abrams series fires only 2 types APFSDS, HEAT.

 

[airstrike99]

long story short,

abrams = opening batsmen = heavy hitter = "best batsman" but it ain't got no bowling and wicket keeping knowledge.

T-90 series = middle order batsmen = play calm and smooth. (recommendation candidate of MBTs )

MBT Arjun = all-rounder = isn't particularly good in any particular situation. but can decently manage all situations.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Then why it is criticised ? comrades answer my one more query .
If DRDO can make such a ingenious 120 mm rifled gun , then why not a 125 mm gun ?
Do we really need tot from Russia or does metallurgy plays such a great role in the manufacturing of a tanks gun that , just because it's caliber is changed , the gun may be affected positively or negatively ?

Dissing something that is produced in numbers and exported that is t-90 and arjun tanks which are still not in any major numbers in IA is very mature...don't blame all on lobbyists or babus, just visualize a public sector office and the motivation of staff there...gotten better since Parrikar came into picture but nevertheless we should be objective and wait till some of our equipment is battle tested, otherwise we sound like a stupid pakistani 2 bits. That said, 125 mm rifled domestic is still better than anything we import even if its a bit of step down one to one...leaps don't just come out of thin air and takes time and hardwork especially from almost fatally diseased Indian OFB's or public sector, they are recovering recently though especially premier research ones

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Dissing something that is produced in numbers and exported that is t-90 and arjun tanks which are still not in any major numbers in IA is very mature...don't blame all on lobbyists or babus, just visualize a public sector office and the motivation of staff there...gotten better since Parrikar came into picture but nevertheless we should be objective and wait till some of our equipment is battle tested, otherwise we sound like a stupid pakistani 2 bits. That said, 125 mm rifled domestic is still better than anything we import even if its a bit of step down one to one...leaps don't just come out of thin air and takes time and hardwork especially from almost fatally diseased Indian OFB's or public sector, they are recovering recently though especially premier research ones

Best would be to get that royal ordinance l 7 120 mm gun for arjun .
It's rifled , for rheinmetall 120 mm must be limited like 125 mm gun because that too is a smoothbore

 

[airstrike99]

Best would be to get that royal ordinance l 7 120 mm gun for arjun .
It's rifled , for rheinmetall 120 mm must be limited like 125 mm gun because that too is a smoothbore

no L 7 is 105mm L11 is 120mm. what i said was DRDO might have developed 120mm rifled by observing L7 105mm.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Best would be to get that royal ordinance l 7 120 mm gun for arjun .
It's rifled , for rheinmetall 120 mm must be limited like 125 mm gun because that too is a smoothbore

Our govt seriously needs to increase focus on metallurgy...if there are two areas that are critical for defence now, its metallurgy and semis and both need some good fundamental chemical and physical sciences discipline....why import? Do they make that much difference in battle field? Can we make domestic ones cheaper in numbers to make up for increased maintenance and reduced life and force OFB's to come up with smooth bore? We need czar type managers to fund these programs and make them deliver

 

[airstrike99]

Our govt seriously needs to increase focus on metallurgy...if there are two areas that are critical for defence now, its metallurgy and semis and both need some good fundamental chemical and physical sciences discipline....why import? Do they make that much difference in battle field? Can we make domestic ones cheaper in numbers to make up for increased maintenance and reduced life and force OFB's to come up with smooth bore? We need czar type managers to fund these programs and make them deliver

yes metallury makes a huge difference. for example. be it the grain density of metal grains or the grain sizes.

smaller the grain size = more brittle.
higher the grain density = more hardness.
the forces per 2 grains decides the toughness factor of a metal too.

gun metals should have high brinell hardness number, high toughness, high tensile and yield strength but low brittleness and medium ductility so that barrel will bend rather than crack and break into splinters.

hardness, brittleness, tensile and yield strengths depend on rate of crystallisation of molten metal, rate of heat transfer between molten metal and the coolant fluid supplied.( during transition phase from partial molten to complete solid)
for smaller guns, oil is generally used for cooling. i don't know about bigger guns.

toughness depends on quality of forging operation performed. OFB sucks at doing forgings. it can only do decent machining processes.

in india, "bharat forge" is the best company for that. the name "forge" literally suggests forging process.

you can see forging from 1:44

 

[omaebakabaka]

yes metallury makes a huge difference. for example. be it the grain density of metal grains or the grain sizes.

smaller the grain size = more brittle.
higher the grain density = more hardness.
the forces per 2 grains decides the toughness factor of a metal too.

gun metals should have high brinell hardness number, high toughness, high tensile and yield strength but low brittleness and medium ductility so that barrel will bend rather than crack and break into splinters.

hardness, brittleness, tensile and yield strengths depend on rate of crystallisation of molten metal, rate of heat transfer between molten metal and the coolant fluid supplied.( during transition phase from partial molten to complete solid)
for smaller guns, oil is generally used for cooling. i don't know about bigger guns.

toughness depends on quality of forging operation performed. OFB sucks at doing forgings. it can only do decent machining processes.

in india, "bharat forge" is the best company for that. the name "forge" literally suggests forging process.

you can see forging from 1:44

Yes, for a country that mastered steel making back in the day for instance damascus steel considered to be the best is actually Indian steel making technique and then panch loha alloys in making deities has lost its science base....what the hell do all these ministries do and do they even meet once or twice a year and does the minister himself show interest in tracking the programs and make people accountable or the officers of these organizations on his cell phone favorites?

Forging is very skilled process and rifling even more so even with computers, Bharat Forge seems to be a bright spot and hope they stay competitive and follow profits modeled after Japanese culture or already died Indian arts finesse to master an art rather than pure commercial business

You would think with giants like Tata and what not, we would have some good metallurgy presence in dual use materials?

 

[airstrike99]

Yes, for a country that mastered steel making back in the day for instance damascus steel considered to be the best is actually Indian steel making technique and then panch loha alloys in making deities has lost its science base....what the hell do all these ministries do and do they even meet once or twice a year and does the minister himself show interest in tracking the programs and make people accountable or the officers of these organizations on his cell phone favorites?

Forging is very skilled process and rifling even more so even with computers, Bharat Forge seems to be a bright spot and hope they stay competitive and follow profits modeled after Japanese culture or already died Indian arts finesse to master an art rather than pure commercial business

You would think with giants like Tata and what not, we would have some good metallurgy presence in dual use materials?

that's because of democracy without deep state. so forget about US.

why should some shop keeper get the right to vote to decide indirectly who would be the minister of defence of the country.

why should some enginner guy decide indirectly who should be in the ministry of health.

my argument is capable people should be there in their respective fields and capable people should decide the future for that particular field that is if you want to have india as a superpower over a week.

however, if you want a democratic republic like india or US( of course it has deep state, so they are capable)
you gotta wait for decades for every military projects to be in work.

 

[Marliii]

 

[Trololo]

that's because of democracy without deep state. so forget about US.

why should some shop keeper get the right to vote to decide indirectly who would be the minister of defence of the country.

why should some enginner guy decide indirectly who should be in the ministry of health.

my argument is capable people should be there in their respective fields and capable people should decide the future for that particular field that is if you want to have india as a superpower over a week.

however, if you want a democratic republic like india or US( of course it has deep state, so they are capable)
you gotta wait for decades for every military projects to be in work.

Our collective political aim should be to create an Indian deep state that looks after Indian interests. Including demography. Countries that have succeeded on the world stage have always had deep states that don't compromise on supreme national interest.

 

[t 90s]

Our collective political aim should be to create an Indian deep state that looks after Indian interests. Including demography. Countries that have succeeded on the world stage have always had deep states that don't compromise on supreme national interest.

I want an indian militia , pvt contractor or whatever. There are millions in india who want to fight. We will liberate POK in no time.

 

[Photon]

Why this T-90 has a unique antenna on the top ? Jammer or interceptor?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Why this T-90 has a unique antenna on the top ? Jammer or interceptor?

Possibly a command tank version.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

In one of the Technology developement reports, IA stated that it wants:

The Broad specifications required is > 1000 mm RhAe. The number required is around 3500.

Now the question arises, is this meant to be some sort of modular armour upgrade that IA wants to retrofit the existing stock of T-72/T-90 and Arjun MK1.
Or is it referreing to new tanks like Arjun MK1A/MK2 or FMBT or FRCV?

 

[t 90s]

In one of the Technology developement reports, IA stated that it wants:
View attachment 98543
The Broad specifications required is > 1000 mm RhAe. The number required is around 3500.

Now the question arises, is this meant to be some sort of modular armour upgrade that IA wants to retrofit the existing stock of T-72/T-90 and Arjun MK1.
Or is it referreing to new tanks like Arjun MK1A/MK2 or FMBT or FRCV?

New tank.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

New tank.

Then Why is 3500 no. armour protections required for 15-20 years?

As per FRCV RFI, 1770 FRCV tanks are to be procured to be inducted in service beginning from 2030 and to remain in service for 40 years till 2070.

Hence, I think this is some form of modular passive armour protection package the Army is proposing for the existing tanks.

 

[t 90s]

Then Why is 3500 no. armour protections required for 15-20 years?

As per FRCV RFI, 1770 FRCV tanks are to be procured to be inducted in service beginning from 2030 and to remain in service for 40 years till 2070.

Hence, I think this is some form of modular passive armour protection package the Army is proposing for the existing tanks.

You are right i think. they probably want add on armour to existing T 72 & T 90 including new ERA which is possible & probably will increase protection level upward of 1000mm Rha.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Any news on this front ?

 

[vishnugupt]

Any news on this front ?

Yes,
IA is busy to rewriting Armata tank specifications as next requirement. Soon they will come with some weird sh!t.

Recently I read somewhere, IA checked ATAG mobility in mountains by driving it more than 500km while ATHOS passed the test by just walking 23km.

You bloody civilians will never understand how hard it is to be Dishonest and look gentleman at the same time.