Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

WARREN SS

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Maharaj samudragupt

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They have plans
No idea well if DRDO succeeded in developing 700-800mm vs RHA round they don't need it.



It's in progress let's see if they field any better APFSDS

They also handling APU deal
They will field ammunition produce by some MSM group of sLovakia , they manufacture ammunition.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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Well private players involved 🙄
So hope less

Ammunition need is asap
Yes , I hope it is the case.
A new engine , new era , aps , apu, new taank gun , new ammo for new gun .
New sights , ac , ploughs , more grill armor etc helps a lot .
Then t 90 will ve best tank in whole south asia.
 

Hellfire

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[Q
1000 T-72 will Upgraded with DRDO mk2 standards and 1000 HP engines

What they need a good APFSDS that can have 700-800 mm penetration vs RHA

The 'upgrade' has been on for some years now ..... status "will be upgraded".

It is akin to the Dhanush program.

Unfortunately, the limitation of thinking of people in general and fanboys in particular, is precisely portrayed here on this thread, with the recent spate of abuses and half cocked opinions being spewed.

@Aditya Ballal Whenever you post a tweet of mine, kindly take the trouble to understand the context that it has been made in.


Coming to this particular write up by Lt Gen Ajai Singh, who actually spearheaded the project. Vested interests have dissected the write up without understanding the implications.

Let's see the most pertinent aspect from Lt Gen Ajai Singh's write up:

A1.JPG


This extract is the most important aspect from his write up. There were no illusions within the army over the induction of the Arjun MBT being a work in progress. This was also the time when the Army went in for INSAS in a big way, inspite of certain shortfalls already present, with the assurance that the same shall be 'ironed out' with user feedback (the period is 1997 onwards). We all know, how that has subsequently played out. Anyone who harbours an illusion that the weapon is one of the most effective ones in real live combat, needs a serious re-check. Otherwise, one of the best weapons, as per me, for firing ranges - great accuracy. But did I carry it in actual combat zone? No.

Also understand that the 90s was the era wherein the collapse of USSR had left India in an unenviable position of having a poor economy, badly exposed diplomatically, raging insurgency in J&K, and a Pakistan that was reaping the benefits of having been on the "winning side" of the cold war. With acute shortages in terms of the budgetary support to armed forces, the forces were trying to achieve commonality and push forward indigenous products that could 'evolve' over time.

If people would be kind enough to recall, India had, at this time, M-46 Catapaults, which were hybrids of Soviet M-46 (130 mm) Gun with the mainstay of the Indian Army - the Vijayants. By 90s, the T-72s were the mainstay of the Indian Army, and as such, the aim was to have a common chasis to create a hybrid SPG. And so, as under:

B1.JPG


Note very carefully. The Army rejected all the four. By this time, T-72s were being made indigenously in India. The army's philosophy shifted to Project ARJUN, and the willingness of Army to induct them quickly was exemplified when Army, of it's own volition, took up PROJECT BHIM.

B2.JPG


Look how 'tedious' were the army trials and how 'grudging' was army to induct the equipment. Please note the timelines & 'expertise' roped in.

B3.JPG


Side Note: Your's truly can tell you quite confidently that by the year 1999, HVF had already botched up production of Arjun MBT and the peak pressure of Pakistan within the Kashmir Valley coupled to difficult economic conditions (tanks were mothballed, large numbers of T-72s were in dire need of overhauling, shortage of basic stuff like engines and tyres for vehicles, were common till 1997, reduced flying hours for training of IAF pilots a norm) and the Pakistani purchase of T-80UD tanks from Ukraine, pushed both IA and GoI into a panic mode of an imminent Pakistani move (US was actively backing Pakistan over Kashmir at the time) into Kashmir Valley (1999, we did see it played out a bit).

An example from an old write up:

D1.JPG


Of course view like u/m, was widely held:

D2.JPG



So, back to Project BHIM, note the dates (and actions undertaken by GoI to support an indigenous product, of which, Army was still keen):

B4.JPG


And the coup d'grace:

One of the observations over army's actions

B5.JPG
 

fire starter

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[Q



The 'upgrade' has been on for some years now ..... status "will be upgraded".

It is akin to the Dhanush program.

Unfortunately, the limitation of thinking of people in general and fanboys in particular, is precisely portrayed here on this thread, with the recent spate of abuses and half cocked opinions being spewed.

@Aditya Ballal Whenever you post a tweet of mine, kindly take the trouble to understand the context that it has been made in.


Coming to this particular write up by Lt Gen Ajai Singh, who actually spearheaded the project. Vested interests have dissected the write up without understanding the implications.

Let's see the most pertinent aspect from Lt Gen Ajai Singh's write up:

View attachment 104715

This extract is the most important aspect from his write up. There were no illusions within the army over the induction of the Arjun MBT being a work in progress. This was also the time when the Army went in for INSAS in a big way, inspite of certain shortfalls already present, with the assurance that the same shall be 'ironed out' with user feedback (the period is 1997 onwards). We all know, how that has subsequently played out. Anyone who harbours an illusion that the weapon is one of the most effective ones in real live combat, needs a serious re-check. Otherwise, one of the best weapons, as per me, for firing ranges - great accuracy. But did I carry it in actual combat zone? No.

Also understand that the 90s was the era wherein the collapse of USSR had left India in an unenviable position of having a poor economy, badly exposed diplomatically, raging insurgency in J&K, and a Pakistan that was reaping the benefits of having been on the "winning side" of the cold war. With acute shortages in terms of the budgetary support to armed forces, the forces were trying to achieve commonality and push forward indigenous products that could 'evolve' over time.

If people would be kind enough to recall, India had, at this time, M-46 Catapaults, which were hybrids of Soviet M-46 (130 mm) Gun with the mainstay of the Indian Army - the Vijayants. By 90s, the T-72s were the mainstay of the Indian Army, and as such, the aim was to have a common chasis to create a hybrid SPG. And so, as under:

View attachment 104721

Note very carefully. The Army rejected all the four. By this time, T-72s were being made indigenously in India. The army's philosophy shifted to Project ARJUN, and the willingness of Army to induct them quickly was exemplified when Army, of it's own volition, took up PROJECT BHIM.

View attachment 104724

Look how 'tedious' were the army trials and how 'grudging' was army to induct the equipment. Please note the timelines & 'expertise' roped in.

View attachment 104729

Side Note: Your's truly can tell you quite confidently that by the year 1999, HVF had already botched up production of Arjun MBT and the peak pressure of Pakistan within the Kashmir Valley coupled to difficult economic conditions (tanks were mothballed, large numbers of T-72s were in dire need of overhauling, shortage of basic stuff like engines and tyres for vehicles, were common till 1997, reduced flying hours for training of IAF pilots a norm) and the Pakistani purchase of T-80UD tanks from Ukraine, pushed both IA and GoI into a panic mode of an imminent Pakistani move (US was actively backing Pakistan over Kashmir at the time) into Kashmir Valley (1999, we did see it played out a bit).

An example from an old write up:

View attachment 104732

Of course view like u/m, was widely held:

View attachment 104736


So, back to Project BHIM, note the dates (and actions undertaken by GoI to support an indigenous product, of which, Army was still keen):

View attachment 104737

And the coup d'grace:

One of the observations over army's actions

View attachment 104740
We all know the meaning of soon in army dictionary. BTW your own DMA under the nose of general Rawat caught lobbying for athos.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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[Q



The 'upgrade' has been on for some years now ..... status "will be upgraded".

It is akin to the Dhanush program.

Unfortunately, the limitation of thinking of people in general and fanboys in particular, is precisely portrayed here on this thread, with the recent spate of abuses and half cocked opinions being spewed.

@Aditya Ballal Whenever you post a tweet of mine, kindly take the trouble to understand the context that it has been made in.


Coming to this particular write up by Lt Gen Ajai Singh, who actually spearheaded the project. Vested interests have dissected the write up without understanding the implications.

Let's see the most pertinent aspect from Lt Gen Ajai Singh's write up:

View attachment 104715

This extract is the most important aspect from his write up. There were no illusions within the army over the induction of the Arjun MBT being a work in progress. This was also the time when the Army went in for INSAS in a big way, inspite of certain shortfalls already present, with the assurance that the same shall be 'ironed out' with user feedback (the period is 1997 onwards). We all know, how that has subsequently played out. Anyone who harbours an illusion that the weapon is one of the most effective ones in real live combat, needs a serious re-check. Otherwise, one of the best weapons, as per me, for firing ranges - great accuracy. But did I carry it in actual combat zone? No.

Also understand that the 90s was the era wherein the collapse of USSR had left India in an unenviable position of having a poor economy, badly exposed diplomatically, raging insurgency in J&K, and a Pakistan that was reaping the benefits of having been on the "winning side" of the cold war. With acute shortages in terms of the budgetary support to armed forces, the forces were trying to achieve commonality and push forward indigenous products that could 'evolve' over time.

If people would be kind enough to recall, India had, at this time, M-46 Catapaults, which were hybrids of Soviet M-46 (130 mm) Gun with the mainstay of the Indian Army - the Vijayants. By 90s, the T-72s were the mainstay of the Indian Army, and as such, the aim was to have a common chasis to create a hybrid SPG. And so, as under:

View attachment 104721

Note very carefully. The Army rejected all the four. By this time, T-72s were being made indigenously in India. The army's philosophy shifted to Project ARJUN, and the willingness of Army to induct them quickly was exemplified when Army, of it's own volition, took up PROJECT BHIM.

View attachment 104724

Look how 'tedious' were the army trials and how 'grudging' was army to induct the equipment. Please note the timelines & 'expertise' roped in.

View attachment 104729

Side Note: Your's truly can tell you quite confidently that by the year 1999, HVF had already botched up production of Arjun MBT and the peak pressure of Pakistan within the Kashmir Valley coupled to difficult economic conditions (tanks were mothballed, large numbers of T-72s were in dire need of overhauling, shortage of basic stuff like engines and tyres for vehicles, were common till 1997, reduced flying hours for training of IAF pilots a norm) and the Pakistani purchase of T-80UD tanks from Ukraine, pushed both IA and GoI into a panic mode of an imminent Pakistani move (US was actively backing Pakistan over Kashmir at the time) into Kashmir Valley (1999, we did see it played out a bit).

An example from an old write up:

View attachment 104732

Of course view like u/m, was widely held:

View attachment 104736


So, back to Project BHIM, note the dates (and actions undertaken by GoI to support an indigenous product, of which, Army was still keen):

View attachment 104737

And the coup d'grace:

One of the observations over army's actions

View attachment 104740
This thing is god level sirji
 

Hellfire

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BTW your own DMA under the nose of general Rawat caught lobbying for athos.

"Lobbying". Can you cite financial transaction for the same? Since he has been 'caught' as you say?

Or is it the typical 'let's level a charge without an iota of proof and scuttle an introduction of a platform that increases capability a la BHIM T-6 type?'
 

fire starter

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"Lobbying". Can you cite financial transaction for the same? Since he has been 'caught' as you say?

Or is it the typical 'let's level a charge without an iota of proof and scuttle an introduction of a platform that increases capability a la BHIM T-6 type?'
Any idea when ATAGS is going to be inducted recently we have heard that they will take another 5 yr for PSQR and field trials.
 

Abtron3

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Never army has changed its requirements. after changes will be made it will have to go through antartica and artic trials, then complete Mars trial.
And why the hell army even conducted years long trials from moon to Mars if they just going to change the requirements in the end and start all over again.
There is corruption and rot in the army anyone denying this either blind or a part of it.
 

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