Indian Army Spike Anti Tank Guided Missile Boost to Infantry Regiments

[aarav]

This spike missile buy is under new policy of emergency buys which doesn't need approval of DAC ,command officer has ₹ 500 crores under his disposal under this procedure ,the snipers deal also got through this process and were for a specific reason so I assume this 12 launchers and 240 missiles are there for a specific reason too.

 

[Bhadra]

Let me begin here with a layman Bhoop Singh understanding and open sources knowledge...

Indian / Pakistani defences in Plains, deserts and obstacle ridden riverine belt is based on "Anti Tank Layout" because mobile offensive operation led by tanks is considered to be the primary and main threat in such areas.

The fundamentals of Anti Tank layout are denial of those lines from where such tank / mobile columns are bound to pass.

Such lines are held by Infantry and some mobile forces based on Anti Tank defensive layout.

The basics of defence of such lines is man portable Anti Tanks missiles and then 84mm Rocket launchers. Mines and obstacles are of some value if those are covered by anti tank weapons Each Infantry battalion is supposed to hold minimum eight launcher to hold an area ranging from 5 - 12 Km.

The entire game plan is to destroy enemy mobile forces led by tanks. Stop and delay them and create conditions for employment of your own tanks so that they destroy enemy completely. That is the textbook design of battles.

If these battalions do not have missile launchers and missiles, you are compromising national security. Nothing less than that. You might withdraw your soldiers from there. Without effective anti tank weapons, the forces will be overrun by the enemy tanks.

We are playing with the essentials of defence. Your smerch, Pinaka, Prithavi, Agni or anti satellite missiles are not capable of stopping those mobile forces / tanks. Only men on ground sitting on coordinated Anti Tanks layout can do that and. Missiles are basics of it.

In the absence of man portable missile DRDO may as well take over that defence of the motherland. Then why have soldiers.. They are not meant to DRDO tragedies who will not develop missile and put spokes in imports This is a national treason.

 

[Enquirer]

Let me begin here with a layman Bhoop Singh understanding and open sources knowledge...

Indian / Pakistani defences in Plains, deserts and obstacle ridden riverine belt is based on "Anti Tank Layout" because mobile offensive operation led by tanks is considered to be the primary and main threat in such areas.

The fundamentals of Anti Tank layout are denial of those lines from where such tank / mobile columns are bound to pass.

Such lines are held by Infantry and some mobile forces based on Anti Tank defensive layout.

The basics of defence of such lines is man portable Anti Tanks missiles and then 84mm Rocket launchers. Mines and obstacles are of some value if those are covered by anti tank weapons Each Infantry battalion is supposed to hold minimum eight launcher to hold an area ranging from 5 - 12 Km.

The entire game plan is to destroy enemy mobile forces led by tanks. Stop and delay them and create conditions for employment of your own tanks so that they destroy enemy completely. That is the textbook design of battles.

If these battalions do not have missile launchers and missiles, you are compromising national security. Nothing less than that. You might withdraw your soldiers from there. Without effective anti tank weapons, the forces will be overrun by the enemy tanks.

We are playing with the essentials of defence. Your smerch, Pinaka, Prithavi, Agni or anti satellite missiles are not capable of stopping those mobile forces / tanks. Only men on ground sitting on coordinated Anti Tanks layout can do that and. Missiles are basics of it.

In the absence of man portable missile DRDO may as well take over that defence of the motherland. Then why have soldiers.. They are not meant to DRDO tragedies who will not develop missile and put spokes in imports This is a national treason.

You're overreacting!!!
Nag ATGMs maybe delayed, but that doesn't mean Indian army has no ATGMs!!

There are Kornets, Invars (on the higher end of quality/price) and close to a hundred thousand of Konkurs & Milans (on the lower end of quality/price).

 

[Bhadra]

This spike missile buy is under new policy of emergency buys which doesn't need approval of DAC ,command officer has ₹ 500 crores under his disposal under this procedure ,the snipers deal also got through this process and were for a specific reason so I assume this 12 launchers and 240 missiles are there for a specific reason too.

I understand that and made out at the first instance.
But what a sorry state we are in ?
An Army Commander / VCOAS is forced to buy basic weapons ? 12 missile launchers? Are we contracted mercenaries ? We are an Army of a great nation of India and we can not provide basic rudimentary missiles to our Army capable hitting a tank at 2-4 km away? It is as basic as boots ! We are an army of billion Rs research organisation called DRDO. What the heck.. ??

 

[Bhadra]

You're overreacting!!!
Nag ATGMs maybe delayed, but that doesn't mean Indian army has no ATGMs!!

There are Kornets, Invars (on the higher end of quality/price) and close to a hundred thousand of Konkurs & Milans (on the lower end of quality/price).

Over reacting ???
Dear sir, it has been 30 long years since NAG has obstructed any import of missiles.

Indian Army is holding WWI wired Milans and wonky Konkurs ineffective against modern armours and RCC bunkers and that too in very less quantity. Not enough to be given to soldiers on ground.

Indian Army never over-reacted ... as I said they will throw stones at Pakistani tanks and still fight. That belief has led everyone to keep "developing" themselves.

The day a soldiers reacts, we all had it ! Had it been for England, Churchill would be standing in front os soldiers.

And how are missile seekers so complicated that the world had developed those much before any other seeker could be thought of but for DODOs.

 

[Bhadra]

And who else is to be blamed here but the army? They are still creating hurdles in adoption of NAG on ridiculous (no other way to describe it) grounds? And we didn't even come close to the drama that was the MPATGM version of NAG! Anyways it will enter production by end of the year.

Sir, be kind enough to tell us what ridiculous grounds were raised by Indian Army ? What hurdles - I hope they did not make the target vanish during trial?
Were you able to be anywhere near the target?

Or you think Indian Army is enslaved captive market ?

 

[Pandeyji]

Sir, be kind enough to tell us what ridiculous grounds were raised by Indian Army ? What hurdles - I hope they did not make the target vanish during trial?
Were you able to be anywhere near the target?

For starters during the trial phase of NAG our ""geniuses"" of the genral staff came up with a special request. Namely that the DRDO re-engineer the NAMICA-1 by incorporating a commander’s panoramic target acquisition/lock-on sensor. As if that was not enough there were also complaints that the minimum range of the missile was too low (why the hell should an ATGM be effective at 700m? Then what are MPATGMs for?)

Oh btw, this whole drama took place in 2012 aka 3 years after NAG was cleared for production & successfully cleared user validation in 2010.

Or you think Indian Army is enslaved captive market ?

Even worse. They are a spoiled brat who just runs after the most shiny toy in the marketplace & throws a hissy fit for it without considering cost or utility, along with a refusal to accept anything else; however practical the replacement may be.

 

[veerJI]

Let me begin here with a layman Bhoop Singh understanding and open sources knowledge.

bhai bhoop singh is our innocent indian army soldier .... for army officers ..
correct me if i am wrong

 

[sunnyv]

bhai bhoop singh is our innocent indian army soldier .... for army officers ..
correct me if i am wrong

Correct , he is mystic Hav bhoop singh. Most innocent and follows order blindly. If u say dig a pit and then fill it up - he will do it.

 

[aarav]

I understand that and made out at the first instance.
But what a sorry state we are in ?
An Army Commander / VCOAS is forced to buy basic weapons ? 12 missile launchers? Are we contracted mercenaries ? We are an Army of a great nation of India and we can not provide basic rudimentary missiles to our Army capable hitting a tank at 2-4 km away? It is as basic as boots ! We are an army of billion Rs research organisation called DRDO. What the heck.. ??

Spike isn't a rudimentary missile,it is fourth generation atgm which beat the javelin atgm of USA in open tender,the deal was wanted by the army was of much larger scale but MoD said no because of MPATGM of DRDO and other private initiative by VEM and Kalyani , emergency buys are now a good option for army to get fulfill it's urgent needs ASAP as was done in bolt action sniper deal ,the spike mr version is most probably ordered which is used by special forces.

 

[WolfPack86]

Army set to get its first consignment of Spike anti-tank guided missiles under emergency purchases

The Israeli Spike anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) is a weapon system the Indian army has been looking for, particularly to protect its infantrymen and then, its tanks against enemy armour. Now, after months of waiting, the Army will get its first consignment– a small one, though– of the Spike.

The Rs 280 crore deal gets the Army 210 missiles and 12 launchers with delivery expected soon. The deal is part of the ’emergency purchase’ mechanism that the armed forces are allowed, and in the wake of the Indian Air Force’s strike on terror camps in Balakot, deep inside Pakistan and the Pakistani Army moving some of its troops right to the border, much required.

According to the rules, the Army vice chief is allowed Rs 300 crore for emergency purchases, and last weekend, this was cleared after the Army Commanders’ Conference. Senior army officials said the previous effort– a much larger deal– was stuck; discussions were still going on with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

While that deal related to a weapon-system that was ‘third-generation,’ this purchase is of a new, ‘fourth-generation’ missile with superior performance. The Emergency Purchase provision was used primarily because such purchases during the time of elections are usually more difficult. The Spike is likely to be effective against reactive armour; the 4 km range is also a positive.

Of course, it is a small order. But if the Spike proves to be effective, a larger order could happen in the future.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[Bhadra]

For starters during the trial phase of NAG our ""geniuses"" of the genral staff came up with a special request. Namely that the DRDO re-engineer the NAMICA-1 by incorporating a commander’s panoramic target acquisition/lock-on sensor. As if that was not enough there were also complaints that the minimum range of the missile was too low (why the hell should an ATGM be effective at 700m? Then what are MPATGMs for?)

Oh btw, this whole drama took place in 2012 aka 3 years after NAG was cleared for production & successfully cleared user validation in 2010.

Even worse. They are a spoiled brat who just runs after the most shiny toy in the marketplace & throws a hissy fit for it without considering cost or utility, along with a refusal to accept anything else; however practical the replacement may be.

Ha Ha Ha Very Very funny sir,

So you mean Indian soldiers should fire a missile without a sight ? Where you.

Minimum range when a technical requirement is acceptable. In missiles minimum range is ditermined by requirements of missile to get armed which is generally 50 to 60 meters range. but 700 meters as minimum range? Are your missiles meant to kill enemy or get own soldiers killed ?
When enemy tank reaches 700 meters away the NAG operator then will open his pants, bend forward and say to enemy " Shahenshah, tussi great ho, tohfa kabool karo" ?
Which weapons stops functioning below 700 meters of range ? Not even a Prithvi missile.

Artillery guns stop firing at 150, 100, 50 meters away from the soldiers for safety or the soldiers may call the guns even to fire on them to destroy the enemy who has reached them.

Weapon system start firing at maximum range and may stop near the soldiers for safety. No one is supposed to be idle any point of time except NAG missiles. Then put that missile somewhere else ?

Actually, people like you should be put in front of approaching tanks below 700 meters and then see which body hole gets activated.

 

[Bhadra]

Spike isn't a rudimentary missile,it is fourth generation atgm which beat the javelin atgm of USA in open tender,the deal was wanted by the army was of much larger scale but MoD said no because of MPATGM of DRDO and other private initiative by VEM and Kalyani , emergency buys are now a good option for army to get fulfill it's urgent needs ASAP as was done in bolt action sniper deal ,the spike mr version is most probably ordered which is used by special forces.

Oh Guru, what I am saying is that missiles are very basic and rudimentary systems for a defense. Rudimentary also means basic without which soldiers might not be there. Why have them.

 

[WolfPack86]

Spike atgm is being procured by Northen army command to target Pakistan bunkers along loc.

 

[Wisemarko]

Spike atgm is being procured by Northen army command to target Pakistan bunkers along loc.

Finally- some sense in the thread. The missiles have been used extensively against Palestinian terrorists in anti-personnel role by Israel and this small order is for LOC against hardened PA bunkers and snipers.

 

[Bhadra]

Finally- some sense in the thread. The missiles have been used extensively against Palestinian terrorists in anti-personnel role by Israel and this small order is for LOC against hardened PA bunkers and snipers.

Is not the heading of the thread very funny and misleading which says "Indian Army Spike Anti Tank Missile"

12 launchers and 45 missiles do not make it "Indian Army" weapon system...

 

[Sanglamorre]

Spike atgm is being procured by Northen army command to target Pakistan bunkers along loc.

That's what I was thinking. IIRC, Spike failed in the heat of Rajasthan deserts. So, they might work rather well for cold Kashmir. We probably need many types of systems for the varied weather and topography of India, IMO an all-conditions system from Thar to Siachen, Arunachal to Kanyakumari isn't possible.

 

[Bhadra]

That's what I was thinking. IIRC, Spike failed in the heat of Rajasthan deserts. So, they might work rather well for cold Kashmir. We probably need many types of systems for the varied weather and topography of India, IMO an all-conditions system from Thar to Siachen, Arunachal to Kanyakumari isn't possible.

Troops from one area move to another area for / during operations as per requirements. Say a division in Allahabad may be asked to go to Bikaner or to icy mountains of Arunachal.

Under such situation mobility and related weapons / ammunition is the only item which is theatre / sector specific. For example Engineer tractors can not and should not be carried to mountains.

But missiles are applicable everywhere, Hence those should function at -30 to +55. It is an operational necessity and not a tantrum.
The reason offered by you is impractical. If we adopt that India would have the biggest defense budget in the world.
Do you realise what will be cost of training itself on various system and that it would be logistics nightmare.

Welcome new bee.

 

[Bhadra]

India’s Army Approves ‘Emergency Purchase’ of 240 Israeli Anti-Tank Guided Missiles
The Indian Army approved the import of 240 Spike anti-tank missiles and 12 launchers earlier this month.

By Franz-Stefan Gady
April 17, 2019

The Indian Army has approved the import of 240 Israeli-made Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Spike medium-range (MR) anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) and 12 launchers as part of an “emergency purchase” to meet immediate operational requirements, according to media reports.

The decision to procure the third-generation fire-and-forget weapon system with a tandem-charge high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead and an operational range of up to 4 kilometers was taken at the during the five-day biannual Army Commanders’ Conference in New Delhi that ended on April 13, official sources told IHS Jane’s this week.

Following the February 2019 military standoff between India and Pakistan following the Balakot airstrikes, the Indian Army’s vice chief of staff has been given authority to procure goods and materiel worth up to $72 million without prior approval from the Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) under an emergency purchase provision.

According to Indian media reports, the Indian Army approved the purchase of 210 rather than 240 Spike missiles.

The Indian Army planned to conduct validation trials of the Spike MR ATGM in the summer of 2019 in India’s western Rajasthan desert region before making a final decision on the weapon systems’ procurement.

In December 2017, the Indian government scrapped a $500 million deal with Rafael for 321 Spike ATGM launchers and 8,356 missiles in favor of an indigenous ATGM system currently under development by India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO). India’s MoD had originally selected the Spike ATGM over the U.S.-made FGM-148 Javelin ATGM system in October 2014.

As I reported last year:

The cancellation of the deal has led to severe disagreements between the Indian Army’s senior leadership and the DRDO, as the service remains deeply skeptical of the DRDO-developed man portable anti-tank guided missile (MPATGM). The Indian Army leadership has reportedly stated that it does not think that the MPATGM will meet the service’s operational requirements. It is also concerned about likely delays in the induction of the new weapon system.

The DRDO successfully test fired the MPATGM at the Ahmednagar test range in the western Indian state of Maharashtra in September 2018. The weapon system has been under development by the DRDO in partnership with Indian defense contractor VEM Technologies Ltd. since 2015, with mass production slated to begin in 2021.

As I reported previously, the Indian Army asserts that it lacks 68,000 ATGMs of various types and around 850 launchers. The Army has reportedly been pushing for a fast-track procurement of 2,500 third-generation shoulder-fired ATGMs and 96 launchers through a government-government contract.

The Indian Defense Acquisition Council approved the procurement of 5,000 French-made second-generation MILAN ATGMs on January 31.

 

[Wisemarko]

Is not the heading of the thread very funny and misleading which says "Indian Army Spike Anti Tank Missile"

12 launchers and 45 missiles do not make it "Indian Army" weapon system...

5 Danush make it an “Indian army” artillery system.