Indian Army Artillery

[gutenmorgen]

If its a mountain, you can carry atags parts seperately and assemble them on mountain, also in some narrow places where truck can't reach

It doesn't seem like that use case will require just a few numbers out of the total quantity to be purchased. Maybe this is the reason for the wait.

 

[Chinmoy]

Wanted to ask the same thing. Apart from cost benefit, does buying ATAGS makes any sense over MGS ATAGS? Are there any compromises made to turn the ATAGS into a MGS platform?

A mounted gun system is more mobile then a towed system. It gives you the capability of shoot and scoot over a towed system.
On other hand a towed system beats a mounted system on deployability and transportability. You could deploy it on terrain where a mounted system would find it hard to gain foothold plus it has a lower signature during transportation as compared to a mounted system.

Both have their own pros and cons and we need both.

 

[gutenmorgen]

A mounted gun system is more mobile then a towed system. It gives you the capability of shoot and scoot over a towed system.
On other hand a towed system beats a mounted system on deployability and transportability. You could deploy it on terrain where a mounted system would find it hard to gain foothold plus it has a lower signature during transportation as compared to a mounted system.

Both have their own pros and cons and we need both.

Good points. I understand that a towed system will have advantages over a MGS in certain aspects of deployability, like terrains in which they can be placed (over a small hillock for example). I am not so sure about transportability though. But you are right that it does have a few use cases.
Even then i don't think that accounts for a need of more than a couple hundred out of over a thousand number requirement (was it 1800?) for bigger artillery.
I don't really have a point here. All I am saying is that if IA has both the options, it's probable that bulk of the order will go towards the MGS platform and maybe that is the reason why towed ATAGS hasn't yet seen orders. Could be wrong.

 

[Hari Sud]

A mounted gun system is more mobile then a towed system. It gives you the capability of shoot and scoot over a towed system.
On other hand a towed system beats a mounted system on deployability and transportability. You could deploy it on terrain where a mounted system would find it hard to gain foothold plus it has a lower signature during transportation as compared to a mounted system.

Both have their own pros and cons and we need both.

Let us argue against the Army decision to bypass ATAGS

Mounted system cannot match the range of a towed system artillery. The case in point is towed ATAGS and the mounted artillery on a special truck. Moreover nobody has analyzed the weight factor of the mounted system together with truck which weighs 6 to 8 tons all by itself.

Yes, the mounted system is far more mobile which is an advantage than shoot and scoot small distance to avoid enemy counter fire as in Bofor or it’s newest incarnation in India.

Some of the mounted pieces of artillery are in trial/test/operation in Ukraine. Only a few pieces have been sent by France, Germany and probably Sweden (neutral country) to Ukraine. It is pure marketing. This I would say are being tested under battle conditions. There is are disadvantages here and that is, Ukrainian personnel have to be trained which is a cumbersome job under battle conditions, maintenance & repair when these system breakdown or posting the suppliers personnel in the battle zone to do training as well as repairs and have risk of casualties. A lot will be known about suitability of the mounted gun system after Ukraine war.

Indian Army just wanted the Israeli Artillery Gun. They would reject everything by producing excuses of weight, maneuverability and what not. We are not Army men but our eyes are open and read everything. For mountain warfare the Army has equipped itself with light weight American M777. That is the one which will do the work on mountain tops or their vicinity. These are towed guns and could be airlifted or towed anywhere. Then we have a significant number of South Korean self propelled Guns which is roughly 50 toner and will go on mountain roads and reach Tawang or Ladakh of its own power. Hence the argument of 3 tons extra weight on ATAGS is of less important if it is staying 15 to 30 km behind the front lines.

Rejecting an excellent gun ATAGS on flimsy grounds is unbecoming of the Army brass…… What do you say guys?

 

[Chinmoy]

Good points. I understand that a towed system will have advantages over a MGS in certain aspects of deployability, like terrains in which they can be placed (over a small hillock for example). I am not so sure about transportability though. But you are right that it does have a few use cases.
Even then i don't think that accounts for a need of more than a couple hundred out of over a thousand number requirement (was it 1800?) for bigger artillery.
I don't really have a point here. All I am saying is that if IA has both the options, it's probable that bulk of the order will go towards the MGS platform and maybe that is the reason why towed ATAGS hasn't yet seen orders. Could be wrong.

As per FARP original plan, there were a need for 1600 towed gun against 800 mounted gun and 100 SPGH tracked.
But we have seen that the number of SPGH has gone upto 200 from 100. So a MGS, which is pretty good and effective in desert and plains would also see increment in number.

 

[gutenmorgen]

As per FARP original plan, there were a need for 1600 towed gun against 800 mounted gun and 100 SPGH tracked.
But we have seen that the number of SPGH has gone upto 200 from 100. So a MGS, which is pretty good and effective in desert and plains would also see increment in number.

If the numbers ended up being dividied that way at the end then I would think that cost is the major factor for such a decision. At least as per my current level of understanding.
It looks more and more that SPGH numbers will reach near 300.

 

[prateikf]

The Azeri dictator - Aliyev is criticising India’s decision to arm Armenia while he himself shops for arms billions of dollars of weapons from Turkey, Israel, Russia and Belarus.

“Whatever weapons Armenia may be given, they will not help it” – Aze.Media

"If we see that we are facing a serious threat, we will deal with that threat immediately. Regardless of where that threat arises, within our territory or outsi

aze.media

 

[Chinmoy]

Let us argue against the Army decision to bypass ATAGS

Mounted system cannot match the range of a towed system artillery. The case in point is towed ATAGS and the mounted artillery on a special truck. Moreover nobody has analyzed the weight factor of the mounted system together with truck which weighs 6 to 8 tons all by itself.

Yes, the mounted system is far more mobile which is an advantage than shoot and scoot small distance to avoid enemy counter fire as in Bofor or it’s newest incarnation in India.

Some of the mounted pieces of artillery are in trial/test/operation in Ukraine. Only a few pieces have been sent by France, Germany and probably Sweden (neutral country) to Ukraine. It is pure marketing. This I would say are being tested under battle conditions. There is are disadvantages here and that is, Ukrainian personnel have to be trained which is a cumbersome job under battle conditions, maintenance & repair when these system breakdown or posting the suppliers personnel in the battle zone to do training as well as repairs and have risk of casualties. A lot will be known about suitability of the mounted gun system after Ukraine war.

Indian Army just wanted the Israeli Artillery Gun. They would reject everything by producing excuses of weight, maneuverability and what not. We are not Army men but our eyes are open and read everything. For mountain warfare the Army has equipped itself with light weight American M777. That is the one which will do the work on mountain tops or their vicinity. These are towed guns and could be airlifted or towed anywhere. Then we have a significant number of South Korean self propelled Guns which is roughly 50 toner and will go on mountain roads and reach Tawang or Ladakh of its own power. Hence the argument of 3 tons extra weight on ATAGS is of less important if it is staying 15 to 30 km behind the front lines.

Rejecting an excellent gun ATAGS on flimsy grounds is unbecoming of the Army brass…… What do you say guys?

Just one simple question... What is the pleasure in arguing about a stupid topic?

 

[samsaptaka]

What?
Few days ago we were discussing it was sabotaged

An order of 150 IS a sabotage. Remember Arjun.

Positive news on Atags howtizer

It will count as postive news only if IA orders 1000 units

 

[silverghost]

Let us argue against the Army decision to bypass ATAGS

Mounted system cannot match the range of a towed system artillery. The case in point is towed ATAGS and the mounted artillery on a special truck. Moreover nobody has analyzed the weight factor of the mounted system together with truck which weighs 6 to 8 tons all by itself.

Yes, the mounted system is far more mobile which is an advantage than shoot and scoot small distance to avoid enemy counter fire as in Bofor or it’s newest incarnation in India.

Some of the mounted pieces of artillery are in trial/test/operation in Ukraine. Only a few pieces have been sent by France, Germany and probably Sweden (neutral country) to Ukraine. It is pure marketing. This I would say are being tested under battle conditions. There is are disadvantages here and that is, Ukrainian personnel have to be trained which is a cumbersome job under battle conditions, maintenance & repair when these system breakdown or posting the suppliers personnel in the battle zone to do training as well as repairs and have risk of casualties. A lot will be known about suitability of the mounted gun system after Ukraine war.

Indian Army just wanted the Israeli Artillery Gun. They would reject everything by producing excuses of weight, maneuverability and what not. We are not Army men but our eyes are open and read everything. For mountain warfare the Army has equipped itself with light weight American M777. That is the one which will do the work on mountain tops or their vicinity. These are towed guns and could be airlifted or towed anywhere. Then we have a significant number of South Korean self propelled Guns which is roughly 50 toner and will go on mountain roads and reach Tawang or Ladakh of its own power. Hence the argument of 3 tons extra weight on ATAGS is of less important if it is staying 15 to 30 km behind the front lines.

Rejecting an excellent gun ATAGS on flimsy grounds is unbecoming of the Army brass…… What do you say guys?

What would the army do if Kalyani participates in the tender & offers Bharat52? Its fulfills the weight criterion in the tender. Spec wise too Athos is not superior to Bharat52. They will have to work hard to fabricate some other flimsy grounds for rejection.

 

[abingdonboy]

As per FARP original plan, there were a need for 1600 towed gun against 800 mounted gun and 100 SPGH tracked.
But we have seen that the number of SPGH has gone upto 200 from 100. So a MGS, which is pretty good and effective in desert and plains would also see increment in number.

FARP, FARP, FARP I’m always hearing about the FARP but it has been on paper for decades only

The IA now has more IDDM options than ever from public and private sector across the board For the towed 155/52 there’s at least 3 IDDM options, for MGS there’s at least 2

SPG yeah they successfully killed off Bhim but K9 is around and they’ll more than likely end up with 300 (the second batch of 200 will be ordered within 18 months I’d say)

on top of the FARP there’s the 105 and 155/39 MGS systems from Kaylani on offer (the latter was specifically requested by the late CDS)

instead what is the IA doing? Keeping the ATAGS in trails and writing RFIs late in the day for foreign guns.

it’ll be 2045 and this FARP will still just be fiction.

Indian generals from all 3 services serving and retired need to be publicly flogged for the games they have played and continue to play. Under their watch india is getting weaker (relatively) and the military is rotting

 

[vidhwanshak]

Indigenous artillery gun passes validation trials - The Hindu


RFP was to be issued in June 2022 but IA is still undertaking lunar trials of ATAGS.

Do you guys have any idea whether foreign weapon systems that are inducted into IA's arsenal have to go through these tests or not?
I am asking this because the M-777 acquisition was pretty fast compared to ATAGS which has been in user trials since 2020.

 

[AnantS]

Indigenous artillery gun passes validation trials - The Hindu

Those are PSQR Trials. It seems now GSQR and DAC(!?) Trials are pending. We need to understand the what these stages of Trials comprise for better understanding. Now what seems is there is a lot of delay between PSQR -GSQR and DAC. To me it seems GSQR are kind of dogfooding -where the ordered 150 units shall be rigorously tested by in routine activities by Artillery unit. My assumption is here the feedback is given to developers for changes/issue resolutions. Resolved product is trialled again guess under GSQR(!?) and once goes for DAC approval with recommendations.

Above is my understanding. Anyone please free feel to correct me.

 

[vidhwanshak]

Those are PSQR Trials. It seems now GSQR and DAC(!?) Trials are pending. We need to understand the what these stages of Trials comprise for better understanding. Now what seems is there is a lot of delay between PSQR -GSQR and DAC. To me it seems GSQR are kind of dogfooding -where the ordered 150 units shall be rigorously tested by in routine activities by Artillery unit. My assumption is here the feedback is given to developers for changes/issue resolutions. Resolved product is trialled again guess under GSQR(!?) and once goes for DAC approval with recommendations.

Above is my understanding. Anyone please free feel to correct me.

I second your understanding.

 

[Master Chief]

Finally first dhanush Regiment of 18 guns fully raised, after fixing issues..

 

[Chinmoy]

FARP, FARP, FARP I’m always hearing about the FARP but it has been on paper for decades only

The IA now has more IDDM options than ever from public and private sector across the board For the towed 155/52 there’s at least 3 IDDM options, for MGS there’s at least 2

SPG yeah they successfully killed off Bhim but K9 is around and they’ll more than likely end up with 300 (the second batch of 200 will be ordered within 18 months I’d say)

on top of the FARP there’s the 105 and 155/39 MGS systems from Kaylani on offer (the latter was specifically requested by the late CDS)

instead what is the IA doing? Keeping the ATAGS in trails and writing RFIs late in the day for foreign guns.

it’ll be 2045 and this FARP will still just be fiction.

Indian generals from all 3 services serving and retired need to be publicly flogged for the games they have played and continue to play. Under their watch india is getting weaker (relatively) and the military is rotting

I know you are stupid, but there is no need to show it publicly here.

 

[Fatalis]

 

[vidhwanshak]

A year-old news

 

[samsaptaka]

A year-old news

Makes me wonder what other trials are pending. M777 never went through these many trials nor did K9....why ? Because they were 'proven' by SoKo and US ?

 

[STORE]