Indian Army Artillery

Chinmoy

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Correction !!!

GPS guided munitions can cost about ₹45 lakhs per round !!!!

Precision guided munitions cost about ₹16 lakh per round .

So , no comparison with unguided munitions for sure .....


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You are looking thru a different perspective.

Keep yourself in place of any company commander who wants to haul Arty shells to forward position. In this case, would you prefer a two truck haul or one? Obviously one truck haul of PGMunitions are much more cheaper then two truck haul of conventional munition.

In second scenario where you are hauling Arty shells to indomitable heights through choppers, what would you prefer? A chopper carrying a load of 50 odd shells with enough space for extra rations and small arms munition or a chopper carrying choc-a-bloc load of arty shell?

Other then manufacturing cost, what count most is logistical cost too. Moreover keep yourself in place of an any observer in forward position who is guiding the arty fire at enemy position from a mere distance. What would you prefer, a dumb unguided shell racing towards you with 50-50 chance of hitting the target or a guided shell with 90% probability of hitting the target.

Moreover fitting a PGK in any conventional shell would not increase its cost by 50 or 100 times. Cost of 45 lakhs or 16 lakhs is true for imported shells, but in house development of it would not cost this much. Anyway India right now is using Krasnopol which is no doubt costly. But if we could design it inhouse, the cost factor would come down immensely. But then too it could cost 2 to 3 times of current conventional one. But anyway precision doesn't come cheap.
 

rishivashista13

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You are looking thru a different perspective.

Keep yourself in place of any company commander who wants to haul Arty shells to forward position. In this case, would you prefer a two truck haul or one? Obviously one truck haul of PGMunitions are much more cheaper then two truck haul of conventional munition.

In second scenario where you are hauling Arty shells to indomitable heights through choppers, what would you prefer? A chopper carrying a load of 50 odd shells with enough space for extra rations and small arms munition or a chopper carrying choc-a-bloc load of arty shell?

Other then manufacturing cost, what count most is logistical cost too. Moreover keep yourself in place of an any observer in forward position who is guiding the arty fire at enemy position from a mere distance. What would you prefer, a dumb unguided shell racing towards you with 50-50 chance of hitting the target or a guided shell with 90% probability of hitting the target.

Moreover fitting a PGK in any conventional shell would not increase its cost by 50 or 100 times. Cost of 45 lakhs or 16 lakhs is true for imported shells, but in house development of it would not cost this much. Anyway India right now is using Krasnopol which is no doubt costly. But if we could design it inhouse, the cost factor would come down immensely. But then too it could cost 2 to 3 times of current conventional one. But anyway precision doesn't come cheap.
I always want the world's best weapons and ammo for our country .

But the worst thing will be if you have limited ammo for ponding on enemy because of the ammunition cost .

Yes , it will surely decrease the rate to 2 - 3 times because it is made in India .
We always produce best and affordable products .


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bengalraider

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There are two different jobs every artillery commander muct be ready for
1)Providing suppressive fire/covering fire
2)Taking out a specific target based on UAV/ground intel coordinates

While in case 2 Presision munitions are obviously better in case 1 (which is 80% of the time in war) an artillery unit is called upon to "lay down a wall of fire to stop/kill advancing/retreating OPFOR troops/equipment" in this case the arty opens up by firing a large number of area destroying cheap mass produced HE shells over a comparatively wide swathe of territory to cause as much damage possible by explosions & shrapnel. This is why Regular artilllery shells will always be used more than Guided shells.
 

Kunal Biswas

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BM-21 are upgraded with new chassis from Ashok & Layland and rockets were upgraded back in 2001 and extended to 38-41kms, Their can be no more upgrade possible for this system, Adding PGM kit on 122mm shell is pointless, 122mm rockets are only available in HE and making these into incendiary and other will make more or less no difference as the diameter of rockets are small ..

On the other hand Pinaka has more growth potential as it carry 214mm rockets which carry large amount of HE more than a 155mm shell and has large effect, Its available in HE, HE - FRAG, Incendiary and can be changed as per need without consulting and approval of third party from outside our country.

Besides this Pinaka 2 comes with rocket equipped with GPS and INS guidance for precision strike, It make sense to use a guided 214mm HE warhead against enemy HQ and other sensitive individual targets with individual rockets ..

Government in 2015 approved 3 more regiments of Pinaka 1, Eventually they will replace all BM-21 and in future BM-30 with enhanced versions ..

=====================

Army already use 155mm Precision kit which are imported, The National product will insure more viability of special munition in hands of Arty in large and cheap ..

@Kunal Biswas Do we are replacing BM-21 grad with Pinaka mark-1?
Recently upgraded BM-21 has a range of 40km by russia..and it has 40 projectiles unlike pinaka mk-1 with 45km range...
Why can't we upgrade just rockets.....
I always want the world's best weapons and ammo for our country .

But the worst thing will be if you have limited ammo for ponding on enemy because of the ammunition cost .

Yes , it will surely decrease the rate to 2 - 3 times because it is made in India .
We always produce best and affordable products .


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Bornubus

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=====================

Army already use 155mm Precision kit which are imported, The National product will insure more viability of special munition in hands of Arty in large and cheap ..
This means existing 155 mm Arty (M46 and FH 77) have precision attack capability.
 

Chinmoy

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I always want the world's best weapons and ammo for our country .

But the worst thing will be if you have limited ammo for ponding on enemy because of the ammunition cost .

Yes , it will surely decrease the rate to 2 - 3 times because it is made in India .
We always produce best and affordable products .


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My view point is, its not about having limited ammo. Its all about using minimum ammo for maximum hit.
 

Chinmoy

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There are two different jobs every artillery commander muct be ready for
1)Providing suppressive fire/covering fire
2)Taking out a specific target based on UAV/ground intel coordinates

While in case 2 Presision munitions are obviously better in case 1 (which is 80% of the time in war) an artillery unit is called upon to "lay down a wall of fire to stop/kill advancing/retreating OPFOR troops/equipment" in this case the arty opens up by firing a large number of area destroying cheap mass produced HE shells over a comparatively wide swathe of territory to cause as much damage possible by explosions & shrapnel. This is why Regular artilllery shells will always be used more than Guided shells.
Totally agreed. But don't you think a precision guided HE/ air burst round would be much more devastating then a conventional one in mountainous terrain?
As far as desert or plain is concerned conventional rounds are best for case 2.
 

rishivashista13

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Totally agreed. But don't you think a precision guided HE/ air burst round would be much more devastating then a conventional one in mountainous terrain?
As far as desert or plain is concerned conventional rounds are best for case 2.
Actually air burst rounds are better in all terrain if your enemy is in open .
If enemy is in bunkers then conventional rounds will be useful , and guided munitions will be Best .

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bengalraider

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Totally agreed. But don't you think a precision guided HE/ air burst round would be much more devastating then a conventional one in mountainous terrain?
As far as desert or plain is concerned conventional rounds are best for case 2.
If we wanted to take out one particular bunker or enemy gun position yes . However if we were trying to stop hordes of infantry from clambering over the rocks massed conventional fire falling like rain over the insertion area is best.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Air burst ammunition are very lethal over mountains, During 1962 as well as 1999 war, Both sides used it to very great extend and a large amount of casualties goes to these ammunition ..

If we wanted to take out one particular bunker or enemy gun position yes . However if we were trying to stop hordes of infantry from clambering over the rocks massed conventional fire falling like rain over the insertion area is best.
Totally agreed. But don't you think a precision guided HE/ air burst round would be much more devastating then a conventional one in mountainous terrain?
As far as desert or plain is concerned conventional rounds are best for case 2.
 

bengalraider

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Air burst ammunition are very lethal over mountains, During 1962 as well as 1999 war, Both sides used it to very great extend and a large amount of casualties goes to these ammunition ..
Air burst fuses are great in the mountains, what I meant to say was that to stop masses guided ammo is not required.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Regular / Air-burst ammunition against human waves and Armored vehicles it will create havoc, Precision shells comes handy when one need a bridge / command bunker needed to be out behind enemy lines to stop enemy logistics and command and control ..

Air burst fuses are great in the mountains, what I meant to say was that to stop masses guided ammo is not required.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Published on Jan 14, 2012

===================

155mmm Airburst rounds looks something like this ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Published on Dec 5, 2014

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It is not know that this is the product Army is using or a kit, Army presently has such shells for precision strike ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Uploaded on Mar 30, 2011
The Regiment of Artillery is an operational arm (a regiment/corps) of the Indian Army. Today it is the second largest arm of the Indian Army, and with its guns, mortars, rocket launchers, unarmed aerial vehicles, surveillance systems and missiles, artillery fire-power, constitutes almost one-sixth of its total strength.
 

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