Indian Army Artillery

[Jagdish58]

The benefits of indigenous IPR

Cool good to see you my friend

Is the M-46 upgraded to 155mm or 130mm with upgun cabability?? adding dhanush features

 

[Yumdoot]

Is it not $7 million price per artillery piece of L & T and Samsung is on the higher side, especially 50% of it is to be cheaply manufactured in India.

The 50% part to be made in India is not the cheap part. That is the part that bumped up the price of K-9 from usual USD 3 mil to USD 7 mil. The USD 3 mil is when you either import it from South Korea or import CKD to assemble it:
http://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...under_self-propelled_howitzers_to_poland.html
'armyrecognition.com/december_2014_global_defense_security_news_uk/samsung_techwin_signs_deal_for_delivering_120_k9_thunder_self-propelled_howitzers_to_poland.html

And we are not getting even the K-10 shell auto-loading tech with this. The chassis is the same for both K-9 and K-10, so not much to learn there.

It is on a higher side but till date we had nil capability to make and support these tracked SPGH. After this point we will have enough for our needs. That too in the private sector. That 50% being made in India is the basic tech transfer.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The new design is more efficient than former, The angle of elevation was always a problem for previous M46 upgraded gun ..

The new gun's barrel is probably straight from Dhanush.

 

[Hari Sud]

The 50% part to be made in India is not the cheap part. That is the part that bumped up the price of K-9 from usual USD 3 mil to USD 7 mil. The USD 3 mil is when you either import it from South Korea or import CKD to assemble it:
http://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...under_self-propelled_howitzers_to_poland.html
'armyrecognition.com/december_2014_global_defense_security_news_uk/samsung_techwin_signs_deal_for_delivering_120_k9_thunder_self-propelled_howitzers_to_poland.html

And we are not getting even the K-10 shell auto-loading tech with this. The chassis is the same for both K-9 and K-10, so not much to learn there.

It is on a higher side but till date we had nil capability to make and support these tracked SPGH. After this point we will have enough for our needs. That too in the private sector. That 50% being made in India is the basic tech transfer.

Sir, it will be hard to imagine to boost up the price from $3 million to $7 million, if half the parts are made in India. This argument is illogical, even if South Korea was to ship whole factories to India to make these parts.

 

[tharun]

The new design is more efficient than former, The angle of elevation was always a problem for previous M46 upgraded gun ..

Why upgrading 130mm to 155mm? We can make direct 155mm right?
What happens to 130mm caliber shells when there is no 130mm guns?

 

[Jagdish58]

How good is Bharat 52 & Bharat 45 ???

Are those tested by ARMY??

 

[Yumdoot]

Sir, it will be hard to imagine to boost up the price from $3 million to $7 million, if half the parts are made in India. This argument is illogical, even if South Korea was to ship whole factories to India to make these parts.

Your logic would have been ok if we were making something we understood well.

For K-9 the chassis is new, the engine is new, the fire control is new, we have not sealed fit an NBC suite onto a tracked SPGH ever.

But the future is the K-9. South Koreans when they began on the K-9 project wanted to have an SPGH that was useful for a mountainous region. Much of South and North Korea being mountainous, which matches requirements in India. Then they are also planning a new auto-loading system that is aimed at reducing crew count and an automatic turret. If you want options to that you have to log into the program today.

Currently there is hardly anything new in the market along these lines.

Besides the aim of the 50% Make In India is to let us have a fall back option. Else we will have to rely on South Korean support during war time and that has limitations.

Though I too would have loved to have the K-9 at around USD 5 million but that cannot happen.

For example, Qatar which cannot be expected to do anything on its own and will remain dependent on OEM and Pakis, has ordered a composite deal for Pzh-2000 and Leopard-2 around 2013 when 1 Euro was around 1.25 USD. Since Tanks and Tracked SPGH don't cost very different overall so you can do your math.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/144373/kmw-wins-€1.9bn-contract-to-renew-qatari-armored-brigade.html

Therefore, Qatar signed a contract with the German defense company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) about the delivery of 24 artillery systems PzH 2000 and 62 LEOPARD 2 main battle tanks.

The project’s total amount reaches €1.89 billion, including the delivery of peripheral equipment, training installations and additional services.

 

[bengalraider]

Why upgrading 130mm to 155mm? We can make direct 155mm right?
What happens to 130mm caliber shells when there is no 130mm guns?

Cheaper and easier to increase 155mm gun numbers by upgrading older guns, much of the logictics can also be retained.
all 130mm guns are not being upgraded we shall retain some medium field artillery ergiments with 130mm gubs well into the 2020's.

 

[bengalraider]

Cool good to see you my friend

Is the M-46 upgraded to 155mm or 130mm with upgun cabability?? adding dhanush features

No this is a separate program where basically the undercarriage is being strengthened & the gun itself is being replaced with a 155mm kit supplied by SOLTAM in Israel.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Former design, Not the new design which take most from Dhanush ..

No this is a separate program where basically the undercarriage is being strengthened & the gun itself is being replaced with a 155mm kit supplied by SOLTAM in Israel.

 

[bengalraider]

Former design, Not the new design which take most from Dhanush ..

Do you have any official info on the Indigenous upgrade as you've detailed. All the OFB lists is the SOLTAM upgrade.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

New design which incorporate parts from Dhanush 45cal

============

Older design which was half Israeli design ..


All its known this is not part of metamorphose upgrade as was known before as official, Unofficially the pictures says the rest ..

Do you have any official info on the Indigenous upgrade as you've detailed. All the OFB lists is the SOLTAM upgrade.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Gun Carriage Factory hands over three 'Dhanush' guns to army

The trials saw some 2,000 rounds being successfully fired from the gun in different climatic conditions like in snowy, desert and hostile areas in the country.​

BHOPAL: Three indigenously-developed 155 mm 'Dhanush' artillery guns have been handed over to the Indian Army by the Jabalpur-based Gun Carriage Factory (GCF).

"Three 155 mm howitzers (Dhanush) have been handed over to the army recently for user's trial," GCF's Joint General Manager and PRO Sanjay Shrivastava said.

GCF is an ordnance factory, which received its first order of 500 transport carts in 1905.

"Another consignment of three guns is being readied and these howitzers too will be delivered to the army shortly," Shrivastava said.

The gun, a towed howitzer with a strike range of 38 km, has been developed by Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), Kolkata, after going through the design and voluminous documents running into over 12,000 pages which were delivered to India under the first phase of Transfer of Technology (ToT) as part of the Bofors gun deal in the late 80s, another official said.

The army had demanded the six howitzers following successful summer and winter trials of the artillery gun.

The trials saw some 2,000 rounds being successfully fired from the gun in different climatic conditions like in snowy, desert and hostile areas in the country, he said.

The army had been looking for a total of 114 Dhanush guns from GCF to augment its firepower, he further said.

According to the official, the army needs a huge number of howitzers of different types, and Indian firms, some with the help of foreign manufacturers, are in the race to fulfil the demand with the gun's variants.

Costing around Rs 14 crore a piece, Dhanush, (aka 'Desi Bofors') is comparable to most current generation weapon systems which are in use by different countries, he said.

Along with electronic gun-laying and sighting systems and other features, the indigenous gun has an enhanced 11-km range as against the 27-km range of the imported Bofors.

The Indian Army had stationed a special team of officers at the GCF to help monitor the progress, coordinate proof resources and provide guidance regarding the qualitative requirements vis-a-vis the gun system from the user's perspective, the official said.

"A team from the 506 Army Base Workshop, close to GCF, had constantly provided technical inputs which it acquired by repairing Bofors gun for over two decades," he said.

The Swedish Bofors company (now owned by Britain's BAE System) could not complete the ToT for the 155 mm howitzer with 39 calibre to India, as the deal got embroiled in a major political row over alleged kickbacks in 80s.

Subsequently, the OFB struggled for a long time to produce the howitzer indigenously despite the fact that it has manufactured and supplied several components or spare parts to keep the Bofors howitzers operational in India, especially during Kargil war.

The army had been desperately looking for 155 mm howitzers for more than a decade now. It had roped in an Israeli company Soltam to upgrade the imported, Russian-made 130 mm gun to 155 mm at GCF. But the project, after the upgraded gun's trial, ran into hot water, the official claimed.

Four years ago, the Defence Acquisition Council decided to look for artillery guns within the country and asked the OFB to start manufacturing howitzers.

Towards that end, former Defence Minister AK Antony flagged off a 155 mm gun manufacturing facility at GCF on September 22, 2012.

"The project has received support and active cooperation from other ordnance factories, PSUs such as SAIL, BEL, and many private sector companies. Their support has made the project a huge success," the official added.

The move had come after four international howitzer firms - Soltam, Denel, Singapore Technologies Kinetics and Rheinmetall - were blacklisted by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) over allegations of graft.

READ MORE:
Soltam|Ordnance Factory Board|Ministry of Defence|Gun Carriage Factory|dhanush|Bofors

 

[tharun]

How many 155mm rounds are being manufactured?
I have seen a report about 4 million rounds

 

[Bornubus]

I took these Pics pics today.

M 46

place - Roorkee cantt

Good old Russian Truck.

 

[Prashant12]

Bharat Forge to test its howitzers this year

Nagpur: Private sector defence manufacturer, Bharat Forge is planning to hold internal validation of the three howitzers it has developed by the end of this year. The company has developed three guns of 105mm, 155x52 and 155x39 mm calibres. The tests may start with 105mm which is similar to the Indian field guns (IFG) at present, used by the army and made by ordnance factories.
The tests for 105mm guns may be held in October followed by the 155mm makes by December, said Rajinder Singh Bhatia, CEO (defence research and aerospace) for the company. He was in the city to attend a seminar on opportunities in the defence sector for micro small and medium enterprises (MSMEs). The seminar was organized by Vidarbha Industries Association and Delhi-based Defence Innovators and Industry Association (DIIA).

The new defence procurement policy gives a chance to private players for presenting equipment developed through their own initiative to the forces which can later take a call. The company will be taking advantage of this clause. However, before the army takes up the trials, the guns will have to be internally tested, said Bhatia.

The mounted 105mm gun built by Bharat Forge weighs less than half pf those being currently used by the army. The 155x52 gun has better mobility and the 155x39, due to its light weight also has its own advantages, he said. Bharat Forge had initiated the development process in 2012.

This comes in the backdrop of the ordnance factory presenting an indigenous version of 155mm howitzers based on the Bofors guns. The ordnance factory gun is of 155x45 calibre which makes the barrel slightly shorter. The first batch of six guns is expected to be inducted in the army in due course.

Bhatia also called for the need to operationalize the technical development fund created by government, at the earliest. As part of the Kelkar Committee recommendations, the fund was established in 2006 but there was no actual allocation of it so far. For years, a nominal allocation of Re1 was made on account of lack of clarity. Finally a Rs100 crore allocation has been made under the new government. It should now be operationalized at the earliest. The corpus is meant for boosting technical and product development in the defence sector, Bhatia said.

The government should come up with higher weightage for defence sector in getting tax benefit on account of research and development. This was also a part of the plans under Make In India initiative, he said.

Ashok Atuluri of Zen Technologies, engaged in supply to defence sector, said his company is now in talks with various state governments for the training system it has developed. This is a virtual aid which can be used in physical training, he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-howitzers-this-year/articleshow/53532100.cms

 

[bengalraider]

I took these Pics pics today.

M 46

place - Roorkee cantt

View attachment 9630

Good old Russian Truck.

View attachment 9631

good old Kraz most of these will be repalced by the new Ashok Leyland FATs!

 

[Bornubus]

good old Kraz most of these will be repalced by the new Ashok Leyland FATs!

How do you differentiate between Kraz and Ural ?


Kraz are still service in service with Engineers.

 

[bengalraider]

How do you differentiate between Kraz and Ural ?


Kraz are still service in service with Engineers.

the Urals were biult more as tropp transporters and mobile command posts etc, they ride higher and have thinner tyres and a different front grille than the Kraz.

ural
the Kraz are heavier vehicles built for goods transport & as FATs, they ride on lower profile thicker tyres

kraz

 

[Kunal Biswas]

They are largely in service with Russian equipment like you posted of M46 and ZU-23-2 ..

Kraz are still service in service with Engineers.