Indian Army Armored Vehicles

[armyofhind]

Traditional HESH ??!!Is there something as nontraditional HESH as well, fuckktard??

Yep. It's called PCB. Combining standard principles of HESH and TB.

 

[armyofhind]

Ask @Kunal Biswas if you are finding my words that much hard to believe!!He can confirm if I'm making stuffs up or merely stating the truth!!Now fuckk off!!

I'm sure Kunal will refuse to testify to the mythical resistance (as raised by you) of a Mud and stone wall against a tank fired HESH round.

 

[armyofhind]

Abbe naam toh dhang se kar lia kar!!It's called spall liners, usually made of aramid materials.I know it costs money and that's exactly why I suggested the use of mud and stones for erecting outer walls!!

Sure.. Spall Liners. I missed the terminology there.
So you're suggesting that a Mud and stone wall emulates the properties of a spall liner made out Aramid/Kevlar.

 

[Blood+]

You haven't managed to "shame or ridicule me."

Actually, I have and you do not even realise it, you would need a functioning brain for that, which is obviouly lacking in your case!!

little bitch.

Hey man, this is not the way to speak about your mom??You are talking about your mom, right??So, she's a little bitch, how little??I'm curious.

All you've managed to do is display your imbecileness by coming up with "Mud and stone" spaced armor.

Nope, actually it's you who has consistently displayed his complete lack of any knowledge about things he speaks and also, pulls out 'facts' from his little behind!!Just don't put your fingers in your mouth without first washing them!!

barrel stabilization has got a whole lot to do with accuracy.

It's called 'stabilisation' nigga, and there is just no way to confirm that T90's barrel stabilisation is worse than Arjun!!You are simply pulling it out of your stinky little arse just to save your face you pathetic little goat fuck!!

But if course

Well, that's a new one!!What's if course??

somebody like you with his head up his arse won't comprehend.

That doesn't apply to me, but you sure have learnt to suck your dick and stick your head up your arse all the while fingering your nose at the same time!!That's quite an achievement.

Combat data- yes of course. You're the one saying that Arjun is worse off in armor protection than other tanks. So apparently you've seen it perform in combat to make such a statement with misplaced conviction.

Why do I need to see it in action to figure out something so obvious??!!Do you seriously believe that India can compete let alone beat countries like USA or UK or Germany, with their vast experience in designing tanks and AFVs and also their huge investment in their R&D sector??!!You really think that our technology would be at their level with so little time and money spend in out own R&D??
Do you know that their composite armor programmes dates as far back as the late stages of the World War 2 itself??And ours was only started in the late 80s, with a minuscule budget!!
Do you even realise that they have tested and validated their armor modules against far more potent anti tank munitions compared to what was available at that time??For example, the Germans tested their armor against ammo like DM 53 out of a gun as powerful as the Rheinmetall L55??Do you know they have tested and validated their armor against missiles like Hellfire, which even in the late 90s could penetrate more than 1200 mm of RHA if declassified CIA documents are to be believed and yet they could not perforate the frontal turret armor of M1A1HA and the Challenger 2 as well!!And they don't even use the same armor anymore!!
And what did our engineers have to proof their armor - some pathetic ancient rounds like 3BM44 Mango, Pronit and the infamous 120 mm MkI, which is less of an APFSDS and more of a glorified reminiscent of the old APDS shots!!
If you can still believe that ours are at the same level as theirs, then kudos to your optimism, but i can't do that.
And besides, Arjun has got the most horrible turret design with the most horrible and inefficient armor layout among all modern MBTs!!Shocking, isn't it??Everyone and his grandmother is aware of this fact here, spend some more time and you will come to know it too.

And don't worry little girl.

Is that supposed to be some insult??Really??Like what are you, 8 or 10??Seriously now, grow up!!

Putting green emojis in your posts doesn't hide the fact that you're literally off your tenterhooks trying to come up with a comprehensive answer in your neuralgic state.
Green is the color of envy by the way. LOL.

Big words for a kid on diapers!!

and the concept of tanks turning into something else in combat is probably more relevant to your thought process, since you're such a big fan of anime to even keep your name here based on one.

Wow!!That's a good one!!But wait!!How are you aware of the anime series if you are so much of a grown up who despises that stuff??!!Especially when Blood isn't really that much well known outside the fans??So how come you know about it kid??

Cheers bitch!

Yeah, double cheers, son of bitch!!

 

[Blood+]

Comparing a round fired from a Carl Gustav RCL to one fired from a tank cannon.
I'm sure the velocities and terminal ballistics involved are the same.

Are you thick in your head or something kid??Or do you suffer from some kind of comprehension issues??Try to get the gist here for crying out loud!!

All I was trying to say that if a mud wall, which isn't backed by anything solid can withstand repeated punishment by 84mm HEAT and TB rounds, then why do you think an one meter thick wall made of big rocks and soil can't withstand a HESH round??All they would need to do is to just detonate the HESH round and then catch the shock wave before it can reach the underlying concrete wall!!It has already been done by the Pakistanis all across the LoC, just ask @Kunal as I told you, if you have the confidence to do so!!Heck, this is the reason why the new rounds had to be developed in the first place because if the HESH was really that powerful or effective, knowing our Army and their love for legacy stuffs, they would have never bothered to go for a completely new type of ammunition in the first place!!

 

[Blood+]

Sure. The barrel doesn't have any gyro stabilization so it can keep dancing all around as the tank moves.

Who said that, because I certainly never said any such thing!!Stop putting words in my mouth kiddo!!All I said was you have no evidence to support your claim that Arjun has better stabilisation systems than T 90s!!How much more you gonna lie, kid??Stop it, it's enough.And get the spelling right, it's getting really annoying now.

 

[Blood+]

Where? in your "visions"?

Nope but in the official brochures!!

Respectfully speaking, please quote source.

I don't have the source material with me right now but the MkI APFSDS rounds have a muzzle velocity of around 1650 meter/second where as both the Pronit/Cl MkII and 3BM42 Mango attains 1730+ meter/second at muzzle when fired at 520 or something MPa chamber pressure!!And both the Pronit and Mango has got longer and heavier rods, which means higher muzzle energy which in turn would result in to flatter trajectories.

 

[Blood+]

I'm sure Kunal will refuse to testify to the mythical resistance (as raised by you)

So if you are that much confident, why don't you simply ask the dude??And why do you think I would even tell you to do such a thing if I weren't confident myself??

of a Mud and stone wall against a tank fired HESH round.

I said an HE round, not an HESH.Pakistanis do not use a tank with rifled gun and HESH doesn't work in smooth barrels!!I thought you would know this but I guess it was too much to hope for!!Too many kids infesting this sight lately.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its a cheap alternative to put in mass around bunkers, But if shot by a 120mm HESH it will not survive, Such fortifications are effective against 51-80mm mortar direct hits ..

Thermobaric are perhaps most effective Anti-personal and infrastructure round from a tank gun, But as bonus its also very effective against tanks ..

Sure.. Spall Liners. I missed the terminology there.
So you're suggesting that a Mud and stone wall emulates the properties of a spall liner made out Aramid/Kevlar.

It has already been done by the Pakistanis all across the LoC, just ask @Kunal as I told you, if you have the confidence to do so!

 

[Blood+]

Sure.. Spall Liners. I missed the terminology there.

No problem.

So you're suggesting that a Mud and stone wall emulates the properties of a spall liner made out Aramid/Kevlar.

No I never suggest that.I said, an outer wall, made of mud and stones, if thick enough, like 3 feet or so, can achieve enough mass and sectional density to actually be able to detonate the HESH rounds before they can make contact with the actual concrete wall, there by rendering the rounds completely ineffective.No wonder the Pakistanis are doing the same all across the LoC (again, just ask Kunal, I'm telling you againIndian Army arsenal is the HESH rounds, and that in turn prompted the development of this new fuel-air explosive based round.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Higher velocity has nothing to do with accuracy, In a small size experiment one can test smooth-bore gun with a rifled gun, Smooth-bore always have higher muzzle velocity but low accuracy ..

which means higher muzzle energy which in turn would result in to flatter trajectories.

 

[Blood+]

Its a cheap alternative to put in mass around bunkers, But if shot by a 120mm HESH it will not survive, Such fortifications are effective against 51-80mm mortar direct hits ..

They don't have to because the mud walls are erected to prematurely detonate the rounds, before they can hit the concrete walls underneath!!You would need to expend several HESH rounds before you can make contact with actual concrete wall and neutralise the occupants with spallings.But in doing so, you render your tank vulnerable to ATGM attacks by the occupants of the said pillbox as well.But a single hit from a thermobaric round can do the job.

 

[Blood+]

Higher velocity has nothing to do with accuracy, In a small size experiment one can test smooth-bore gun with a rifled gun, Smooth-bore always have higher muzzle velocity but low accuracy ..

That was true before the advent of digital FCS with advanced ballistic computers, mated with highly sensitive meteorological sensors and gun stabilisation systems so advanced and sensitive to the minutest of the vibrations that you can literally place a glass full of tea over the tank gun and run the tank over rugged terrain without spilling out even a drop!!That far ahead we have come as far as gun stabilisation is concerned.

 

[Blood+]

Yep. It's called PCB. Combining standard principles of HESH and TB.

Not at all!!PCB works nothing like a HESH but exactly like a regular thermobaric munition!!It's just that DRDO follows some weird terminology instead of the establitablished ones, like terming APFSDS as FSAPDS and stuff like that!!"Penetration Cum Blast",really?? Height of chutiyappa if you think about it!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Advent of sophisticated FCS enable adaptation of smooth-bore as it has rectified the zeroing error to significant level but the zeroing error is there, as their is no FCS in the world can predict trajectory of a round through a smooth-bore while using HE or HEAT rounds, Of course i am taking within Indian context..

To detonate a HESH warhead, One would need significant hard surface as concrete, It might detonate but that is highly suspect-able ..

In weapon preform ace, note the hit probability section and do note the target size from given range ( The result is based on both Gun and FCS ), Compare with other tank such as T-90 Bhishma, In case for more accurate analysis ( Which i don`t have ) compare this with other tanks which use Arjun`s FCS with smooth-bore gun ..

That was true before the advent of digital FCS with advanced ballistic computers, mated with highly sensitive meteorological sensors and gun stabilisation systems so advanced and sensitive to the minutest of the vibrations that you can literally place a glass full of tea over the tank gun and run the tank over rugged terrain without spilling out even a drop!!That far ahead we have come as far as gun stabilisation is concerned.

They don't have to because the mud walls are erected to prematurely detonate the rounds, before they can hit the concrete walls underneath!!You would need to expend several HESH rounds before you can make contact with actual concrete wall and neutralise the occupants with spallings.But in doing so, you render your tank vulnerable to ATGM attacks by the occupants of the said pillbox as well.But a single hit from a thermobaric round can do the job.

 

[Chinmoy]

That does not depend by a fact based on two points following :

1. Tank barrel life degrades ( T-72M1 barrel in Indian Army has life of only 250rnds back in 2001, T-90 bhishma`s has 500rnds as 2010 ) with high pressure rounds, In its life majority in peace time it fires low pressure rounds such as HEAT and HE even in exercise mostly ..

2. In conflict, A Tank is called upon providing close support to Infantry or creating deep penetration in enemy lines, Majority of times a tank vs tank battle are rare ..

Not some theory but in practice around the globe, You can conform this to any service man in Armour of any country you like ..

===================

Indian Army on purpose pitched for Rifled gun on purpose, As told before multiple factors are responsible for an result, People in Army who advocate for rifled gun were proved correct in combine trails,

Every gun has some degree of error in zeroing regardless what ever FCS they use, Its lesser with Rifled gun with regular rounds from a tank gun, Its simple physics ..

Selected people who come up with strange RFI were entertained before, Its not the same any longer, I don`t want to start abt this particular subject in this thread as the topic is covered in various others before various times ..

==================

Arjun`s gun had 120mm HEAT but was not called into service, It might be easily said than done by multiple PHDs and with cores of rupees, Our scientific community is not a stupid, Majority of delays are caused by red tapes and error in official documentations so does poor work by L1 bidders ..

Indian Army make requirement taking regional threads, Not global ..

Apart from all these, what I feel compel IA to choose rifled gun over smooth bore is lack of required Tank simulator for firing exercise. Rifled guns are more accurate then smooth bore ones over a distance, but the downside of it is the lost of KE of the rounds it fires till that distance and its being maintenance heavy.
What is the status of the ATGM? AFAIK LAHAT has been dropped from the plan.

 

[WolfPack86]

PM Modi`s new deal with America & Russia for Abraham Super Tank, M777 howitzer & S-400 SAM

 

[rishivashista13]

PM Modi`s new deal with America & Russia for Abraham Super Tank, M777 howitzer & S-400 SAM

I don't think INDIA is looking for Abrahams .
Looks like wrong news .

Sent from my Micromax Q380 using Tapatalk

 

[Blood+]

Apart from all these, what I feel compel IA to choose rifled gun over smooth bore is lack of required Tank simulator for firing exercise. Rifled guns are more accurate then smooth bore ones over a distance, but the downside of it is the lost of KE of the rounds it fires till that distance and its being maintenance heavy.
What is the status of the ATGM? AFAIK LAHAT has been dropped from the plan.

A completely false assertion!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is not a false assertion as of now, Please compare Arjun MK1`s accuracy preform ace to those tanks using similar FCS but smooth-bore gun ..

A completely false assertion!!