No more shittier than our Arjun I fear.In fact, Challenger 2 is the second most well protected tank in the world after the M1A2 Abrams SEP.
Why not??Oh wait, I know why, because the great Rohit babu has given his verdict, that's why, right??
Really??The stats say otherwise, unfortunately.
Premature statement. We'll have to wait till the Arjun is tested in combat to pass blanket statements like that.
Again, an immature statement I'll say.
This ammunition is into production in 2015.One measure of technological progress made by DRDO in development of 125mm APFSDS is the comparison of LRatio of DRDO MK-1 and MK-2 round – this parameter was 14:1 for earlier round while the L
Not at all, you would know if you weren't such an ignorant noob!!
And again, Not at all, you would know if you weren't such an ignorant noob!!
Actually, I do!!I do know the maximum chamber pressure these guns can take as well as their length and diameter and that's all you really need to know to come up with a rough estimation of their power.But again, only if you weren't such a noob.
You have got it in reverse I fear.Actually, the truth is, anything that doesn't add up to the reality doesn't confirm to my logic!!And I'm not one of those who would twist and bend the logic to suit his own fantasy nor would pull out 'facts' from my backside just to win an argument at any cost possible, even if it means making a complete and utter fool of oneself, like what you are doing and now I'm gonna prove it to you point by point!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Quite obviously you do not have even the slightest idea about anything at all, so why are you even bothering to reply with such false info and making a fool of yourself in the process??Is winning an argument (which you aren't, quite obviously) over the net really worth this shiit?For fuckk's sake, you don't even know the basic difference between HESH and Fuel-Air Explosive yet here you have the audacity to tell me that I'm wrong??Where the hell are you getting all these confidence, I could certainly use some myself.
Contrary to your fantasies, pillboxes can be easily designed and constructed in such a way so as to completely mitigate the effects of HESH rounds, that's the very reason why DRDO had to develop the Thermobaric ammo (aka PCB, whoever the fuckk was in charge of naming probably has a hard on for porn I think) in the first place!!
Not that much, the spalling was often inconsistent and wouldn't produce the desired result.Besides, the Britishers found out that in order to create an effective level of spalling, the warhead diameter had to be at least 50% bigger than the LOS thickness of the armor plates!!Which means, in order to defeat even a 100mm RHA plate, you would need need to use an 150mm HESH warhead, otherwise, there wouldn't be the required amount of spalling to actually kill the tank!!Not really that effective as you are making it out to be.
Well congratulations for getting at least one thing right.I applaud you for that, BRAVO!!
Sure, especially since mud and stones are running at a price higher than Diamond.
Sure sure, why not??Except, army has to run to DRDO for a new type of rounds, because apparent the HESH was so good and deadly that the Pakistanis would simply run away by the mere sight of the approaching Indian tanks , no sport in that, right??
A task that can be done more efficiently by using thermobaric rounds or time delayed HE rounds, which do not rely on rifled guns!!
For starters, KEP and APFSDS is the same thing and secondly, it's called APFSDS and not FSAPDS, got it??
Frankly speaking, I've never seen something as stupendously stupid as this above statement of yours!!Truly, at this point, I'm not even sure why I'm still moving ahead with this discussion any further!!What you just said doesn't make an freaking iota of sense, really, and here I'm actually being polite!!
Nope, only one reason, better FCS, no two way to put it amigo, take it or leave it wouldn't change the reality or the facts!!That's the beauty of the facts - you can choose to accept 'em or reject 'em but it will have no bearings on the reality what so ever!![/QUOTE]
Sorry but I find that extremely hard to swallow!!How is the Indian context anymore different than the others??Are facing some different types of threats that are completely unique to our context and threats which can not be countered by smooth barrel guns??If that's the case, then I would certainly want to know about those unique threats and if that's not the case, then your reasoning behind clinging on to a rifled gun from the 80s era doesn't hold any water I'm afraid.
In the context of the comparative trials, the gun wasn't really a prime factor since the relative performance of the different ammunition was not a criteria and since, can be and should be ignored from the equation altogether.
Exactly, and that's what I can't fathom.Why the hell would they carry on with an outdated and weaker gun from the 80s when cheaper and better alternatives can be made available within a relatively short order??And if they love rifled guns so much, they why didn't they bat an eye while selecting their T series tanks??Something doesn't add up.
That depends.
Rifled guns are not suited for HEAT rounds since the spin imparted from rifling affects formation of the metal jets.
Yes, a round that can be optimised for smooth barrel guns with little difficulty!!All you need to do is just add some fins in its ass and voila!!
Great, glad that we are on the same page here, between you and me, sir.
Alright, no problem there.
1. The CAG Report No.24 of 2011-12 (Defense Services) explains the development of DRDO Mk-2 round:
“Ministry of Defence, Department of Defence Research and Development (DDRD) in May 1996 sanctioned the above project at a cost of INR 2.30 crore to be completed by May 1998. It was sanctioned by DRDO without GSQR from Army HQ. The project after four revisions of probable date of completion (PDC) and three cost revisions, was closed in December 2004 after an expenditure INR 7.27 crore. The ammunition developed by the Laboratory did not meet the Users’ requirement as Users expressed an apprehension as to whether the trials conducted for MK-II ammunition in the absence of GSQR for this ammunition would qualify as user trials. To resolve the issue, the ammunition was subjected to Accelerated User Cum Reliability Trials (AUCRT) in August 2007 which again proved to be unsatisfactory. Ministry of Defence in its reply in February 2011 stated that trials with 30 rounds of improved ammunition, have been successfully completed in May 2010 and Army HQ has given go ahead for accelerated user trials with 500 rounds of the improved ammunition. Ministry’s reply should be viewed in the background of the fact that even after a lapse of 15 years the ammunition is yet to be inducted. Such ammunition is still being imported by Army.”
This ammunition is into production in 2015.
-------------
Which means, it has been outclassed even before its very inception and that too, by rounds designed in the previous decade or even previous century if we are to count the M829A2's value as true!!
Try and say something worthwhile based on fact rather than calling names and putting emotes to try and hide the lack of veracity in what you're saying.Not at all, you would know if you weren't such an ignorant noob!!
And again, Not at all, you would know if you weren't such an ignorant noob!!
Actually, I do!!I do know the maximum chamber pressure these guns can take as well as their length and diameter and that's all you really need to know to come up with a rough estimation of their power.But again, only if you weren't such a noob.
And wait a minute!!What did you say again??I'm making premature statements, really??So what was your highness doing when Mr Rohit the ****** came up with his gems like Challenger 2 was shit and Arjuns gun being far better than that of the Arjun??How come that doesn't end up as a premature statement in your book, hypocrisy much, ehhh??Don't bother to reply m8, it was rhetorical question, a question we already know the answer of.
You have got it in reverse I fear.Actually, the truth is, anything that doesn't add up to the reality doesn't confirm to my logic!!And I'm not one of those who would twist and bend the logic to suit his own fantasy nor would pull out 'facts' from my backside just to win an argument at any cost possible, even if it means making a complete and utter fool of oneself, like what you are doing and now I'm gonna prove it to you point by point!!
BULLSHIIT!!In reality, HESH rounds can be rendered completely ineffective just by surrounding your bunker walls with mud and stone walls with some air gap in between!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Quite obviously you do not have even the slightest idea about anything at all, so why are you even bothering to reply with such false info and making a fool of yourself in the process??Is winning an argument (which you aren't, quite obviously) over the net really worth this shiit?For fuckk's sake, you don't even know the basic difference between HESH and Fuel-Air Explosive yet here you have the audacity to tell me that I'm wrong??Where the hell are you getting all these confidence, I could sure use some myself.
Contrary to your fantasies, pillboxes can be easily designed and constructed in such a way so as to completely mitigate the effects of HESH rounds using simple raw materials which is readily available in your surrounding areas - mud and stones!!That's the very reason why DRDO had to develop the Thermobaric ammo (aka PCB, whoever the fuckk was in charge of naming probably has a hard on for porn I think) in the first place!!
Not that much effective really, the spalling was often inconsistent and wouldn't produce the desired result.Besides, the Britishers found out that in order to create an effective level of spalling, the warhead diameter had to be at least 50% bigger than the LOS thickness of the armor plates!!Which means, in order to defeat even a 100mm RHA plate, you would need need to fire a HESH round of 150 mm calibre, otherwise, there wouldn't be the enough amount of spalling required to actually kill the tank reliably!!Not really that effective as you are making it out to be.
Well congratulations for getting at least one thing right.I applaud you for that, BRAVO!!
Sure, especially since the price of mud and stones are running higher than Diamonds these days.
Sure sure, why not??May be that's why army had to run to DRDO for a new type of rounds, because apparently the HESH was so good and deadly that the Pakistanis would simply cower down and run away by the mere sight of the approaching Indian tanks, what's the sport in that, right??
A task, which can be done far more efficiently with fuel-air explosives or HE rounds with time delay fuses (like APAM) and that too, without having to rely upon rifled guns like HESH does and wouldn't fuck up its anti tank potential by quite some margin in the process!!
First of all, KEP and APFSDS are the same thing, so 'and' isn't really the conjunction of choice here, because to an uninformed person, it may seem that those abbreviations are used to denote two different things.
Complete bollocks.
As a matter of fact, that's the only reason barring the training of the gunners involved in the process!!That is a fact, take it or leave it.
[/QUOTE]You have got it in reverse I fear.Actually, the truth is, anything that doesn't add up to the reality doesn't confirm to my logic!!And I'm not one of those who would twist and bend the logic to suit his own fantasy nor would pull out 'facts' from my backside just to win an argument at any cost possible, even if it means making a complete and utter fool of oneself, like what you are doing and now I'm gonna prove it to you point by point!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry, sorry, I'm sober now.But seriously man, what the hell??!!Why are you even............................you know what??Just forget it, just forget it!!I won't say a thing after this, please keep on amusing me like this. What an ignorant fool!!
Quite obviously you do not have even the slightest idea about anything at all, so why are you even bothering to reply with such false info and making a fool of yourself in the process??Is winning an argument (which you aren't, quite obviously) over the net really worth this shiit?For fuckk's sake, you don't even know the basic difference between HESH and Fuel-Air Explosive yet here you have the audacity to tell me that I'm wrong??Where the hell are you getting all these confidence, I could certainly use some myself.
Contrary to your fantasies, pillboxes can be easily designed and constructed in such a way so as to completely mitigate the effects of HESH rounds, that's the very reason why DRDO had to develop the Thermobaric ammo (aka PCB, whoever the fuckk was in charge of naming probably has a hard on for porn I think) in the first place!!
But then again, there is no difference between HESH and TB as per you!!Which begs me to question my own actions, why on earth am I even engaging you in a discussion??Well may be right now I've got nothing better to do.
Not that much, the spalling was often inconsistent and wouldn't produce the desired result.Besides, the Britishers found out that in order to create an effective level of spalling, the warhead diameter had to be at least 50% bigger than the LOS thickness of the armor plates!!Which means, in order to defeat even a 100mm RHA plate, you would need need to use an 150mm HESH warhead, otherwise, there wouldn't be the required amount of spalling to actually kill the tank!!Not really that effective as you are making it out to be.
That's the very reason why the armies still continued to make use of HVAP and APDS rounds in primary anti tank roles, despite the HESH being 4 times cheaper to produce!!
Well congratulations for getting at least one thing right.I applaud you for that, BRAVO!!
Sure, especially since mud and stones are running at a price higher than Diamond.
Sure sure, why not??Except, army has to run to DRDO for a new type of rounds, because apparent the HESH was so good and deadly that the Pakistanis would simply run away by the mere sight of the approaching Indian tanks , no sport in that, right??
A task that can be done more efficiently by using thermobaric rounds or time delayed HE rounds, which do not rely on rifled guns!!
For starters, KEP and APFSDS is the same thing and secondly, it's called APFSDS and not FSAPDS, got it??
Otherwise, this point is alright.
Frankly speaking, I've never seen something as stupendously stupid as this above statement of yours!!Truly, at this point, I'm not even sure why I'm still moving ahead with this discussion any further!!What you just said doesn't make an freaking iota of sense, really, and here I'm actually being polite!!
Nope, only one reason, better FCS, no two way to put it amigo, take it or leave it wouldn't change the reality or the facts!!That's the beauty of the facts - you can choose to accept 'em or reject 'em but it will have no bearings on the reality what so ever!!
Sure, that's why Russian tanks were outgunned in comparative trials.
You know, I believe in treating a person the exact way he deserve to be treated!!And twats like you should be shamed and ridiculed at every opportunity there is!!So yeah, this is the way I'm gonna reply to ignorant stupid little brats like yourself kiddo, get used to it, because I'm only gonna up the ante on you from this point on, twat!!
Trust me, the only one hopping up and down like a little whore is you and only you.You are the ones who's having an emotional outburst at the moment, not me!!
And why on earth do I need to put my hands on 'combat data' to actually figure out the relevant stuffs??And what is this obsession of yours with so called 'combat situation'??Do you expect the tanks to suddenly turn into something else during combat or something??
Munna jhund mein toh suar atein hain!!Tu kya sala suar hain??
And what does barrel stabilisation have to with the lethality of the guns??Clinging on to straws here, are we now ******??
You haven't managed to "shame or ridicule me." little bitch. All you've managed to do is display your imbecileness by coming up with "Mud and stone" spaced armor.You know, I believe in treating a person the exact way he deserve to be treated!!And twats like you should be shamed and ridiculed at every opportunity there is!!So yeah, this is the way I'm gonna reply to ignorant stupid little brats like yourself kiddo, get used to it, because I'm only gonna up the ante on you from this point on, twat!!
Trust me, the only one hopping up and down like a little whore is you and only you.You are the ones who's having an emotional outburst at the moment, not me!!
And why on earth do I need to put my hands on 'combat data' to actually figure out the relevant stuffs??And what is this obsession of yours with so called 'combat situation'??Do you expect the tanks to suddenly turn into something else during combat or something??
Munna jhund mein toh suar atein hain!!Tu kya sala suar hain??
And what does barrel stabilisation have to with the lethality of the guns??Clinging on to straws here, are we now ******??
Rifled guns are not suited for HEAT rounds since the spin imparted from rifling affects formation of the metal jets.
And merely adding more powerful propellant and lighter sabot petals will have a rather marginal effect on the end result, at least no where near to the extent necessary to bring the penetration value at 500+ level at 2 km, as has been stated.
Which means, it has been outclassed even before its very inception and that too, by rounds designed in the previous decade or even previous century if we are to count the M829A2's value as true!!
They were outgunned, not over-matched in terms of power, try to fathom the difference for fuck's sake!!
Dream world??Dude how big of an ignorant moron are you??Are you even aware of the fact that the tangos in the J&K used to build huts (dhokes in their tongue) with stones and mud with walls so thick that could take on multiple hits of thermo baric hits from Carl Gustav rcl rifles and still stand upright just fine??
Yes, crazy ain't it??But just because you are not aware of it, doesn't make it irrelevant or false.That's why I keep telling ignorant little sobs like you to get yourselves educated!!
No but you were certainly dropped on your head as a child, that's for sure.You'll get better, I guess.
Nope, my feet are perfectly in the present, but your head is in your arse and feet are in your mouth, that's for sure!!
Abbe naam toh dhang se kar lia kar!!It's called spall liners, usually made of aramid materials.I know it costs money and that's exactly why I suggested the use of mud and stones for erecting outer walls!!In fact, the Pakistanis have used this solution on their bunkers all across the LoC!!Ask @Kunal Biswas if you are finding my words that much hard to believe!!He can confirm if I'm making stuffs up or merely stating the truth!!Now fuckk off!!
And when did I advocate that??I'm not the fool of the century around here, thataward goes to yourself you goatfuckk!!
Yes, it does, just like calling you by something like "Army of Swines" would do instead of your actual handle.
psychedelic trip, is that the word of your day punk??
Traditional HESH ??!!Is there something as nontraditional HESH as well, fuckktard??
Hahahahahahahaha, only if you could realise what big of a moron you are!!HESH and TB are completely different things, which works on completely different principles with no relation being among them whatsoever!!
I already know that, thank you sucker.
No shiit Sherlock.By the way, what makes you think I rely on wikipedia??It's not even a source but a what can be best described as a children's handbook for things!!Children like thyself, now go suck your thumb kiddo, and have your nappies changed as well!!
That's rich coming from a four year old, who still pees and poops in his nappies!!Alle le le, dudu piega kya??
Bullshit!!The T 90's rounds are faster moving, therefore as per conventional wisdom, their rounds should be following flatter trajectory!!
Stop making shit up you moron!!
It's called muzzle reference system or MRS for crying out loud you stupid cocksucker!!And those are pretty standard across all MBTs made 80s and onward!!Nothing special about them.
Sure they do but where is the proof that the systems on board the Arjun are better than the ones on-board the T 90s??How did you reach to that conclusion??Wait, don't answer that, I know that already - out of your stinking @Rse, ain't it??
Who??Your daddy-o??
Comparing a round fired from a Carl Gustav RCL to one fired from a tank cannon.
Sure. The barrel doesn't have any gyro stabilization so it can keep dancing all around as the tank moves.
Where? in your "visions"?
