Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

karn

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

I appreciate your effort in checking the links I provided.
The Auto lay license to Infosys lnk clearly says that ADA has earned revenues for the past seven years from Autolay software. As no production tejas is ready in the past seven years the income has come from exports only.
Also the export of 64 computers to Russian airforce too was widely reported with links. I gave all the links in ADA Tejas IV thread here. And I stand by it.I will post the link once I find it.
If ADA/HAL was able to replace costly imported Titanium panels with locally made composites the implication is huge . I just wanted a source on that . Even if it is an HAL one .
 

karn

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Just inducting a incapable fighter for sake of numbers is playing with IAF pilots life in combat , China and PAK have much advanced fighters with BVRM, long range radars , longer range , better turning radius , high maneuverability , one cant risk country's security by a failed toy of HAL/ADA babus. Govt should fast track rafale deal and modernization program of mirage 2k , mig 29 , jaguar asap things should not be stuck for lack of funds , defense budget for next year need big boost may be 5% of GDP .
The Jf 17 is none of these things and when it entered service it was able to shoot short range missiles and drop dumb bombs that is it .
It is getting the ability to use PGMs with the block 2 version which is in production only now . It still uses the hybrid FBW , the Chinese openly admit that it will take them at least 2 years to develop a full digital quadraplex FBW something the tejas was built with . By the same criteria the LCA was "ready" 5 years ago .
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

The Jf 17 is none of these things and when it entered service it was able to shoot short range missiles and drop dumb bombs that is it .
It is getting the ability to use PGMs with the block 2 version which is in production only now . It still uses the hybrid FBW , the Chinese openly admit that it will take them at least 2 years to develop a full digital quadraplex FBW something the tejas was built with . By the same criteria the LCA was "ready" 5 years ago .
Block 2 is there and they are upgrading existing block 1s too , it has BVRM , radar which has double range than tejas , highly maneuverable , mid air refuiling , HMD ,plus many things which tejas is yet to achieve and necessary for combat. Most important they have 3 active squadrons of jf 17 , 4 F 16
 
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karn

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Block 2 is there and they are upgrading existing block 1s too , it has BVRM , radar which has double range than tejas , highly maneuverable , mid air refuiling , HMD ,plus many things which tejas is yet to achieve and necessary for combat. Most important they have 3 active squadrons of jf 17 , 4 F 16
The radar range on the tejas is 150 km while the Chinese radar is 130-140 Km perhaps my math is rusty but 140 is not the double of 150 .. Jf17 was able to start mid air refueling only last year . Tejas has had HMD for a while now . Highly maneuverable? compared to what ?
They have inducted 3 squadrons which they will waste money upgrading .
Try again .
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

The radar range on the tejas is 150 km while the Chinese radar is 130-140 Km perhaps my math is rusty but 140 is not the double of 150 .. Jf17 was able to start mid air refueling only last year . Tejas has had HMD for a while now . Highly maneuverable? compared to what ?
They have inducted 3 squadrons which they will waste money upgrading .
Try again .
here you go since i cant post links on forum a recent article extract Dr K Tamil Mani, Director-General (Aeronautical Systems), DRDO, and Chief Executive, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, told Express that the integration of new missiles identified by the IAF will top the agenda in the FOC phase. "The nose cone radome of Tejas is another part that is expected to get a relook. "Now the radome is made of composite materials and we will change it to quartz. Today we are getting a radar range of 45-50 km and we need to improve the same to 80-plus km with the new material," the official said."
 

karn

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

here you go since i cant post links on forum a recent article extract Dr K Tamil Mani, Director-General (Aeronautical Systems), DRDO, and Chief Executive, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, told Express that the integration of new missiles identified by the IAF will top the agenda in the FOC phase. "The nose cone radome of Tejas is another part that is expected to get a relook. "Now the radome is made of composite materials and we will change it to quartz. Today we are getting a radar range of 45-50 km and we need to improve the same to 80-plus km with the new material," the official said."
The range of the radar as displayed is the baseline range not depending on its setup . By the comparing them in similar conditions the Israeli has a slightly superior range .. Or does the PAF intend to fly without nose cones .
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

The range of the radar as displayed is the baseline range not depending on its setup . By the comparing them in similar conditions the Israeli has a slightly superior range .. Or does the PAF intend to fly without nose cones .
oh really Israeli radar is not of full configuration and is a hybrid one to fit tejas , hence lesser range , good 70 km less than jf17
 

karn

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

oh really Israeli radar is not of full configuration and is a hybrid one to fit tejas , hence lesser range , good 70 km less than jf17
If the hybrid radar had not been up to snuff the full Israeli radar would have been chosen . Get a direct comparison of the radars as I have .
KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode
What is the size of target being quoted by Tamilmani? Look up mode or look down mode ?
 
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Zebra

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

@karn,

Sir, we all know Tejas mk1 and mk2 will look same but mk2 will get GE F-414 engine, apart from that, please, if you don't mind, elaborate difference in between Tejas mk1 and mk2.
 
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karn

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

@karn,

Sir, we all know Tejas mk1 and mk2 will look same but mk2 will get GE F-414 engine, apart from that, please, if you don't mind, elaborate difference in between Tejas mk1 and mk2.
I only know as much as the article by SAurav Jha with quotes from Dr Tamilmani
Saurav Jha's Blog : The Radiance of Tejas: A bright prospect for 'Make in India'
I dunno why you are asking me ... :confused:
Im sure that this has been posted before .
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
According to the article the air intakes need no design review as the Kaveri was meant to have the airflow of the F414 to begin with ...
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Things..
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/drdojsp/dow..._AirborneLiquidCirculationSystem_Specs_20.pdf
 
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Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

@karn,

Sir, we all know Tejas mk1 and mk2 will look same but mk2 will get GE F-414 engine, apart from that, please, if you don't mind, elaborate difference in between Tejas mk1 and mk2.
Increased fuel capacity , increased range , increased turning radii , Increased speed , External stores capacity will be boosted to 5000 kg , AESA radar , More composites , new electronic warfare suite , new glass cockpit with larger 8 x 12 inch displays , major change that will be critical and time consuming will be design changes to incorporate bigger engines , hope they rope in external consultants to achieve this earliest.
 
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Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Dose anyone have any relatives working in ADA/HAL , what methodologies they employ to evolve /develop their product , do they follow Agile ?
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

If the hybrid radar had not been up to snuff the full Israeli radar would have been chosen . Get a direct comparison of the radars as I have .
KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

What is the size of target being quoted by Tamilmani? Look up mode or look down mode ?
In that news article Tamilmani had clearly stated current range is 45 km and would be increased to max 80 km if quartz cone is used.
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Defence does not come cheap.

If you want cheap stuff, then you will get cheap defence.

Does DRDO not have adequate funds? Are you suggesting that?

May I ask you a counter question.

You want to build a house. Do you not check if you have the money or organise for that much of money? Or do you start ordering the house to be built on mere speculative assumption that money will come your way?

Any project that is contemplated has to have a cost analysis and presented to the Govt with vetting by all concerned. Then, and then alone, is the project sanctioned.

Sanctions affected us only in buying assemblies to retrofit.

But then do we lack scientists, technicians, brains to not build things ourselves or have we no confidence in ourselves.

Germany was under sanctions and the most crippling clauses of the Treaty of Versailles, and yet they produced war machines that were innovative and very lethal. Missiles and its technology are what they unleashed on the world and on which today the space explorations are based on.

if they can do, why can't we.

Why must be always take recourse to excuses for our lethargic, laid back approach?

If we are to be a world beater, then we cannot be sleeping and hoping for the favourable wind to blow and do the job for us.
sir there is a difference between comaprision india & germany

when germany started the projects they know they were under sanction and had to develop everything in house

in indias case when they contracted foreign things they were not under sanctions

so timelines and budgets (finances ) would have been structured accrodinlgy

now suddenly when they are put under sanctions

then they budget for (finances) and start tech development - which again is not concurrent

so these factors do affect - timelines & financial budgets in an unforeseen way
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

gentlemen 2 questions really

1. Why are we discussing tejas Mk1 in mk2 thread ?

2. till now it was being said that Tejas was designed to replace Mig 21 - GSQR / ASQR were given for a fighter to replace Mig21 - i.e. to match Mig21 performance
but now it emerges that The parameters are more closer to F-16
so what is it actually ?

was it designed to Mig21 replacement specs or F16 specs ?

if it is F-16 then what are these all Ex XXXXXXXX people talking about when they say that tejas is not fulfilling its ASQR spec as it cant perform like Mig 21 dont they know the reality ?
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

That is an interesting point.

So, the Arjun was made without any thought about facilities to upgrade and the cost?

So, much of money got squandered for just proving we can make a tank?

Odd.

Just what I am trying to say, putting the cart before the horse.
sir on one hand you say the services should have contemporary & futuristic weapons specs

on the other hand of the weapons systems are developed with present infra in minde then the wepons systems may not be contemporary / futuristic ?

a very delicate dilema ? what to do ?

do what the user says ....

the user gave GSQR which lead to 65 tonne tanks ... but user wants a 50 tone tanks

but in a 50 tone tank - indian made - is not ready to accept the same level of specs which are present in Foreign 50 ton tank --

but is ok with degraded 50 tone foreign tank ?

what is the solution ?
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

gentlemen 2 questions really

1. Why are we discussing tejas Mk1 in mk2 thread ?

2. till now it was being said that Tejas was designed to replace Mig 21 - GSQR / ASQR were given for a fighter to replace Mig21 - i.e. to match Mig21 performance
but now it emerges that The parameters are more closer to F-16
so what is it actually ?

was it designed to Mig21 replacement specs or F16 specs ?

if it is F-16 then what are these all Ex XXXXXXXX people talking about when they say that tejas is not fulfilling its ASQR spec as it cant perform like Mig 21 dont they know the reality ?
wo wo wo F16 one thing being patriotic one thing being realistic , tejas is inferior to jf17 f16 is far far away:confused:
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

wo wo wo F16 one thing being patriotic one thing being realistic , tejas is inferior to jf17 f16 is far far away:confused:
not being patriotic

not being realistic
recently there are people who have started asying that IAF had F16 performance in mind while setting asqr

eralier people said it was targetted at being new modern mig21 with better features

some people are syaing it was intended as Mirage 2000 due to dassault infulence in earlist consultations

so i am just asking what is the truth
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

not being patriotic

not being realistic
recently there are people who have started asying that IAF had F16 performance in mind while setting asqr

eralier people said it was targetted at being new modern mig21 with better features

some people are syaing it was intended as Mirage 2000 due to dassault infulence in earlist consultations

so i am just asking what is the truth
this sounds a classical software dev project story pic below
 
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rvjpheonix

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

In that news article Tamilmani had clearly stated current range is 45 km and would be increased to max 80 km if quartz cone is used.
RAnge is subjective as to the target used. I dont think anybody knows the specifics. For all we know the jf 17 radar could be using a 5 m^2 as reference and us 2 m^2. Nobody knows exactly. And as far as Indian tech in radars are concerned we are fairly ahead as compared to the other technologies. I am sure that the radar will atleast be on par or better than anything the Pakistanis put in the jf 17
 

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