Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

brahmastra11

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Well you answered it..

Is there a privilege to aquire and use missile and also make money in name of Maintenance and Upgradation like Artillery equipments and Fighter jets ? hehe.. Answer is no.. Hence Missile Programme is moving well.. So main root cause and culprit is Corruption..

Coming back to Tejas.. Whatever happened is past.. Let us leave it to ED of Govt of India to recover the loss from concerned and ensure they are punished..

For now let us cherish the moment as our dream of owning own Jet came true and move forward..

They have been answered.

How is it that our Missile Programme is moving so well and in a timebound manner, when the missile technology is so close guarded a secret and with such large number of international treaties preventing any passing of technology to others and even more advanced than aircraft technology? And one might add that sanctions that affected Tejas were equally applicable to the missile development too.
 
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brahmastra11

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Dont know how and why but did not heard much of corruption in Navy (Even if it is there not in the volume of Army (Bofors etc.,) and IAF (Augusta etc.,)) [Apologize for irrelevant post in this thread. ]

How is it that Arihant is on the scene? IS nuclear submarine technology a child's play? It has worked since the Project was conceptualised and then the 'goods' were put into place and work done before the hoop la over it was done.
 

Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Well you answered it..

Is there a privilege to aquire and use missile and also make money in name of Maintenance and Upgradation like Artillery equipments and Fighter jets ? hehe.. Answer is no.. Hence Missile Programme is moving well.. So main root cause and culprit is Corruption..
Ask the PNC about corruption.

Bofors was condemned because of corruption. 'But the gun proved itself in Kargil.

Equipment is good, but the Negotiation done with a whole lot of genuine and extraneous issue.

This may help:
Added Later

On the issue of Development, the DRDO does a whole lot of hype. That is our experience. At the GSQR, they egg on the military that they will deliver the Moon and it encourages fancier add ons. Then starts the shortfalls and delay and a host of excuses. It becomes Catch 22 where you are neither here nor there. And you cannot abandon the Project since you have to give indigenous development a chance, more so when they continue to promise they will deliver and then ask for more time and then again, more time.

Then there comes a time that a stopgap purchase ex foreign sources is required till the development is done. That starts tongues wagging and for good reasons too (on both sides).

It is actually a mugs game.

It is time we develop the indigenous defence industry and bring in some competition. This Govt is on the right lines. If foreign technology is necessary, then let it be as a collaboration by private industries of India. They would be more efficient than a Govt organisation that has bureaucracy and perks as their goal and not profits or results.

And it is good that arms agents are being legalised so that one can keep a tab on them and ensure that they do not come out of the woodwork incognito.
 
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Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Dont know how and why but did not heard much of corruption in Navy (Even if it is there not in the volume of Army (Bofors etc.,) and IAF (Augusta etc.,)) [Apologize for irrelevant post in this thread. ]
Then you have not heard about the Kokum vs HDW submarine deal.

Read this
https://books.google.co.in/books?id...g#v=onepage&q=HDW deal and corruption&f=false

And the best part is that my friends in the Submarine Wing at NHQs told me that the Kokum was the one that had been selected by the Navy.

But the HDW was bought.
 
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Zebra

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

.......Sun 30 MkI is combat ready. But then owing to lack of spares, only 40% of the fleet are operational.........................
If GoI / MoD order FGFA, then the same will be issues for FGFA also......!



and that is not an IAF responsibility.
And if the same will be issues for FGFA then also IAF won't be responsible for it also....!

Then why the hell India should buy FGFA....?

Those who are crying for it, they must get their a$$ kicked then, isn't it.


Please indicate where and how ASR have been changed..............................
IAF insists on changes to Tejas - The Hindu

Not sure, this will do or not.
 

Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Dont know how and why but did not heard much of corruption in Navy (Even if it is there not in the volume of Army (Bofors etc.,) and IAF (Augusta etc.,)) [Apologize for irrelevant post in this thread. ]
Note this article as to why the Navy Projects are successful, while others take time.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: India's Navy offers bright spots in a sea of failure

The news may be gloomy from all across the country, but, for the Indian Navy, things are looking good.

In this past week, they have crossed two significant milestones. First, the nuclear reactor in the Arihant nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) went critical and the boat is now ready for sea trials. Second, India's first home-designed aircraft carrier, Vikrant, was launched at the Cochin Shipyard, Kochi.

Both are some years away from being commissioned and receiving the appellation "Indian Naval Ship", or INS, but they are well on their way. And, as a bonus, in a couple of months from now, the INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov) will join the fleet.

Indigenous
The real achievement here is not the launch of these ships, but that two of them have been indigenously designed and built. Well, the Arihant has been built to a Russian design, but the special requirements of fabrication, welding and construction have all been met by Indian companies, public and private.
Of the three services, the Navy has reached the furthest with indigenisation. The Vikrant is entirely Indian designed, as are the Kolkata and its predecessor Delhi class destroyers. Indeed, when it comes to surface ships, the navy can design them all.

The reason it has been forced to buy the Talwar class frigates from Russia is because the public sector shipyards used to insist on making all the warships, even if they would be delayed. The Navy's order of battle was so depleted that it was forced to go to the Russians.

As far as submarines go, the Indian effort to learn its design foundered on domestic politics, when V.P. Singh scrapped the HDW Class 209 submarine deal because the arrangement involved payment to some agents. Now with the Scorpene class, the learning process has begun again.

The Navy is still dependent on imports for weapons and some sensors. They are already making, with Russian help and to a largely Russian design, the Brahmos supersonic anti-ship missile. But an effort to make surface-to-air missiles was aborted when the DRDO failed to deliver the Trishul.

Having learnt its lesson, the DRDO has now tied up with Israel, to design what is called the Barak 8 Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) which will be ready for induction in a year or two. In the meanwhile some of our newer ships will have no SAM cover.

The contrast with the IAF is quite evident. The LCA Tejas is still some years from induction, even though a vast amount of money has been spent on developing it. Indeed, the Air Force's plight has been evident from the fact that it has had to import the basic training aircraft for its rookie pilots, a little over half a century, yes 52 years after the first flight of the indigenous HF-24 Marut, which was albeit designed by a team led by Dr Kurt Tank for the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

Delays
It is not as if everything is hunky dory for the Navy. For example, INS Kolakata, the first of its class of destroyers, which was expected to be commissioned in 2010 has now been delayed till 2014 and its sister ships are likely to come even later. The Scorpene submarine project remains plagued by delays and recently, a news report said that it would be delayed an additional year and the first boat would only be commissioned by 2016, instead of 2012 as was initially envisaged.

There are delays plaguing other programmes of the Navy as well, such as the decision to make another class of conventional submarines.

Behind the Navy's success is project management. Notice, the managing directors of all the key shipyard are retired navy officers - Rear Admiral R.K. Sharawat in Mazgaon Dock Ltd Mumbai, Rear Admiral N.K. Mishra at Hindustan Shipyard, Vizag, Rear Admiral A.K Verma, Garden Reach Shipbuilders, Kolkata, Rear Admiral Vineet Bakshi at the Goa Shipyard and Commodore K Subramaniam at the Cochin Shipyard, Kochi.

Some, but not all of these officers are engineers. Indeed, it is not their engineering skills that matter in the job they are doing, but their managerial abilities. Having served the Navy for a long time, they have considerable knowledge of the user's requirements, as well as the ability to manage large work teams.

HAL
Contrast this with what has happened in HAL.
It used to be managed by senior Air Force officers at several levels from the 1950s till the 1980s. Indeed, four of its Managing Directors-A.M. Engineer, P.C. Lal, Laxman Katre and OP Mehra went on to become the chief of the Air Force. These were the years when the HAL produced the HF-24, India, if not Asia's first supersonic fighter, the HJT-16 Kiran jet trainer, the HPT 32 basic trainer which retired some years ago after 25 years of service. It was in this era, that the successful Mig 21, Avro 748 and the Jaguar licence assembly programmes were initiated.

Since the 1990s, the HAL has decided to have non-Air Force managers. They are well-qualified people, but somehow not quite up to their job. The story of the LCA is well known, the intermediate jet trainer programme remains in a limbo and the IAF has refused to accept the HAL's basic trainer offer because it is not sure when it will be delivered.

A measure of its continuing failure is the report that the HAL is surrendering anywhere between 30 to 50 per cent of its workshare of the fifth generation fighter development programme to the Russians because it has not been able to manage its manpower. India is going to spend tens of billions of dollars on this, and yet gain little by way of design experience.

Last year, the Indian Air Force made an effort to convince the government to accept one of its most distinguished air marshals as the Chairman and Managing Director of the HAL, but it was turned down. These are lessons for everyone to see, but somehow the system - our "see nothing and learn nothing" bureaucracy and political leaders cannot learn them.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: India's Navy offers bright spots in a sea of failure | Daily Mail Online
Note the shipyards are headed by retired Indian Navy officers.

Accountability is what was expected of them throughout their service and they are thus attuned to the same.
 
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Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Dont know how and why but did not heard much of corruption in Navy (Even if it is there not in the volume of Army (Bofors etc.,) and IAF (Augusta etc.,)) [Apologize for irrelevant post in this thread. ]
Note this article as to why the Navy Projects are successful, while others take time.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: India's Navy offers bright spots in a sea of failure

The news may be gloomy from all across the country, but, for the Indian Navy, things are looking good.
In this past week, they have crossed two significant milestones. First, the nuclear reactor in the Arihant nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) went critical and the boat is now ready for sea trials. Second, India's first home-designed aircraft carrier, Vikrant, was launched at the Cochin Shipyard, Kochi.
Both are some years away from being commissioned and receiving the appellation "Indian Naval Ship", or INS, but they are well on their way. And, as a bonus, in a couple of months from now, the INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov) will join the fleet.

Indigenous
The real achievement here is not the launch of these ships, but that two of them have been indigenously designed and built. Well, the Arihant has been built to a Russian design, but the special requirements of fabrication, welding and construction have all been met by Indian companies, public and private.
Of the three services, the Navy has reached the furthest with indigenisation. The Vikrant is entirely Indian designed, as are the Kolkata and its predecessor Delhi class destroyers. Indeed, when it comes to surface ships, the navy can design them all.
The reason it has been forced to buy the Talwar class frigates from Russia is because the public sector shipyards used to insist on making all the warships, even if they would be delayed. The Navy's order of battle was so depleted that it was forced to go to the Russians.
As far as submarines go, the Indian effort to learn its design foundered on domestic politics, when V.P. Singh scrapped the HDW Class 209 submarine deal because the arrangement involved payment to some agents. Now with the Scorpene class, the learning process has begun again.

The Navy is still dependent on imports for weapons and some sensors. They are already making, with Russian help and to a largely Russian design, the Brahmos supersonic anti-ship missile. But an effort to make surface-to-air missiles was aborted when the DRDO failed to deliver the Trishul.

Having learnt its lesson, the DRDO has now tied up with Israel, to design what is called the Barak 8 Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) which will be ready for induction in a year or two. In the meanwhile some of our newer ships will have no SAM cover.

The contrast with the IAF is quite evident. The LCA Tejas is still some years from induction, even though a vast amount of money has been spent on developing it. Indeed, the Air Force's plight has been evident from the fact that it has had to import the basic training aircraft for its rookie pilots, a little over half a century, yes 52 years after the first flight of the indigenous HF-24 Marut, which was albeit designed by a team led by Dr Kurt Tank for the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

Delays
It is not as if everything is hunky dory for the Navy. For example, INS Kolakata, the first of its class of destroyers, which was expected to be commissioned in 2010 has now been delayed till 2014 and its sister ships are likely to come even later. The Scorpene submarine project remains plagued by delays and recently, a news report said that it would be delayed an additional year and the first boat would only be commissioned by 2016, instead of 2012 as was initially envisaged.

There are delays plaguing other programmes of the Navy as well, such as the decision to make another class of conventional submarines.

Behind the Navy's success is project management. Notice, the managing directors of all the key shipyard are retired navy officers - Rear Admiral R.K. Sharawat in Mazgaon Dock Ltd Mumbai, Rear Admiral N.K. Mishra at Hindustan Shipyard, Vizag, Rear Admiral A.K Verma, Garden Reach Shipbuilders, Kolkata, Rear Admiral Vineet Bakshi at the Goa Shipyard and Commodore K Subramaniam at the Cochin Shipyard, Kochi.
Some, but not all of these officers are engineers. Indeed, it is not their engineering skills that matter in the job they are doing, but their managerial abilities. Having served the Navy for a long time, they have considerable knowledge of the user's requirements, as well as the ability to manage large work teams.

HAL
Contrast this with what has happened in HAL. It used to be managed by senior Air Force officers at several levels from the 1950s till the 1980s. Indeed, four of its Managing Directors-A.M. Engineer, P.C. Lal, Laxman Katre and OP Mehra went on to become the chief of the Air Force. These were the years when the HAL produced the HF-24, India, if not Asia's first supersonic fighter, the HJT-16 Kiran jet trainer, the HPT 32 basic trainer which retired some years ago after 25 years of service. It was in this era, that the successful Mig 21, Avro 748 and the Jaguar licence assembly programmes were initiated.

Since the 1990s, the HAL has decided to have non-Air Force managers. They are well-qualified people, but somehow not quite up to their job. The story of the LCA is well known, the intermediate jet trainer programme remains in a limbo and the IAF has refused to accept the HAL's basic trainer offer because it is not sure when it will be delivered.

A measure of its continuing failure is the report that the HAL is surrendering anywhere between 30 to 50 per cent of its workshare of the fifth generation fighter development programme to the Russians because it has not been able to manage its manpower. India is going to spend tens of billions of dollars on this, and yet gain little by way of design experience.

Last year, the Indian Air Force made an effort to convince the government to accept one of its most distinguished air marshals as the Chairman and Managing Director of the HAL, but it was turned down. These are lessons for everyone to see, but somehow the system - our "see nothing and learn nothing" bureaucracy and political leaders cannot learn them.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: India's Navy offers bright spots in a sea of failure | Daily Mail Online
Note the shipyards are headed by retired Indian Navy officers.

Accountability is what was expected of them throughout their service and they are thus attuned to the same.
 

Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Dont know how and why but did not heard much of corruption in Navy (Even if it is there not in the volume of Army (Bofors etc.,) and IAF (Augusta etc.,)) [Apologize for irrelevant post in this thread. ]
Note this article as to why the Navy Projects are successful, while others take time.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: India's Navy offers bright spots in a sea of failure

The news may be gloomy from all across the country, but, for the Indian Navy, things are looking good.

In this past week, they have crossed two significant milestones. First, the nuclear reactor in the Arihant nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) went critical and the boat is now ready for sea trials. Second, India's first home-designed aircraft carrier, Vikrant, was launched at the Cochin Shipyard, Kochi.

Both are some years away from being commissioned and receiving the appellation "Indian Naval Ship", or INS, but they are well on their way. And, as a bonus, in a couple of months from now, the INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov) will join the fleet.

Indigenous
The real achievement here is not the launch of these ships, but that two of them have been indigenously designed and built. Well, the Arihant has been built to a Russian design, but the special requirements of fabrication, welding and construction have all been met by Indian companies, public and private.

Of the three services, the Navy has reached the furthest with indigenisation. The Vikrant is entirely Indian designed, as are the Kolkata and its predecessor Delhi class destroyers. Indeed, when it comes to surface ships, the navy can design them all.

The reason it has been forced to buy the Talwar class frigates from Russia is because the public sector shipyards used to insist on making all the warships, even if they would be delayed. The Navy's order of battle was so depleted that it was forced to go to the Russians.

As far as submarines go, the Indian effort to learn its design foundered on domestic politics, when V.P. Singh scrapped the HDW Class 209 submarine deal because the arrangement involved payment to some agents. Now with the Scorpene class, the learning process has begun again.

The Navy is still dependent on imports for weapons and some sensors. They are already making, with Russian help and to a largely Russian design, the Brahmos supersonic anti-ship missile. But an effort to make surface-to-air missiles was aborted when the DRDO failed to deliver the Trishul.

Having learnt its lesson, the DRDO has now tied up with Israel, to design what is called the Barak 8 Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) which will be ready for induction in a year or two. In the meanwhile some of our newer ships will have no SAM cover.

The contrast with the IAF is quite evident. The LCA Tejas is still some years from induction, even though a vast amount of money has been spent on developing it. Indeed, the Air Force's plight has been evident from the fact that it has had to import the basic training aircraft for its rookie pilots, a little over half a century, yes 52 years after the first flight of the indigenous HF-24 Marut, which was albeit designed by a team led by Dr Kurt Tank for the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

Delays
It is not as if everything is hunky dory for the Navy. For example, INS Kolakata, the first of its class of destroyers, which was expected to be commissioned in 2010 has now been delayed till 2014 and its sister ships are likely to come even later. The Scorpene submarine project remains plagued by delays and recently, a news report said that it would be delayed an additional year and the first boat would only be commissioned by 2016, instead of 2012 as was initially envisaged.

There are delays plaguing other programmes of the Navy as well, such as the decision to make another class of conventional submarines.

Behind the Navy's success is project management. Notice, the managing directors of all the key shipyard are retired navy officers - Rear Admiral R.K. Sharawat in Mazgaon Dock Ltd Mumbai, Rear Admiral N.K. Mishra at Hindustan Shipyard, Vizag, Rear Admiral A.K Verma, Garden Reach Shipbuilders, Kolkata, Rear Admiral Vineet Bakshi at the Goa Shipyard and Commodore K Subramaniam at the Cochin Shipyard, Kochi.

Some, but not all of these officers are engineers. Indeed, it is not their engineering skills that matter in the job they are doing, but their managerial abilities. Having served the Navy for a long time, they have considerable knowledge of the user's requirements, as well as the ability to manage large work teams.

HAL
Contrast this with what has happened in HAL. It used to be managed by senior Air Force officers at several levels from the 1950s till the 1980s. Indeed, four of its Managing Directors-A.M. Engineer, P.C. Lal, Laxman Katre and OP Mehra went on to become the chief of the Air Force. These were the years when the HAL produced the HF-24, India, if not Asia's first supersonic fighter, the HJT-16 Kiran jet trainer, the HPT 32 basic trainer which retired some years ago after 25 years of service. It was in this era, that the successful Mig 21, Avro 748 and the Jaguar licence assembly programmes were initiated.

Since the 1990s, the HAL has decided to have non-Air Force managers. They are well-qualified people, but somehow not quite up to their job. The story of the LCA is well known, the intermediate jet trainer programme remains in a limbo and the IAF has refused to accept the HAL's basic trainer offer because it is not sure when it will be delivered.

A measure of its continuing failure is the report that the HAL is surrendering anywhere between 30 to 50 per cent of its workshare of the fifth generation fighter development programme to the Russians because it has not been able to manage its manpower. India is going to spend tens of billions of dollars on this, and yet gain little by way of design experience.

Last year, the Indian Air Force made an effort to convince the government to accept one of its most distinguished air marshals as the Chairman and Managing Director of the HAL, but it was turned down. These are lessons for everyone to see, but somehow the system - our "see nothing and learn nothing" bureaucracy and political leaders cannot learn them.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: India's Navy offers bright spots in a sea of failure | Daily Mail Online
Note the shipyards are headed by retired Indian Navy officers.

Note how the HAL was successful when there were IAF officers at the helm.

Accountability is what was expected of them throughout their service and they are thus attuned to the same.

The Govt does not want retd military officer to head the organisations.

The reason why not is not hard to find. ;)
 
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Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

If GoI / MoD order FGFA, then the same will be issues for FGFA also......![



And if the same will be issues for FGFA then also IAF won't be responsible for it also....!

Then why the hell India should buy FGFA....?
Those who are crying for it, they must get their a$$ kicked then, isn't it.
Read the above post to realise why FGFA is a mess.

Blame it on........the IAF?




One has to be contemporary for the adversarial environment when the development is cannot keep pace with the adversarial scenario and is behind times.

Is that wrong?

Gnats did very well in the war, but would it be still acceptable?

Think that over.

and what have you to say of this - wanting changes including a more powerful engine, optimisation of the aerodynamic qualities and weight of the aircraft and "dropping and replacing" certain parts to take care of obsolescence?
 
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power_monger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Ray,

Can you tell me why do you think DRDO is highly sucessfull in Missiles(Both Strategical and tactical) and to an great extent Radars?
 

Ray

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Ray,

Can you tell me why do you think DRDO is highly sucessfull in Missiles(Both Strategical and tactical) and to an great extent Radars?
Because my eyes and mind still function and I can see it and use my brains to understand what I see.

Do you do it otherwise?
 

Lone Ranger

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Because my eyes and mind still function and I can see it and use my brains to understand what I see.

Do you do it otherwise?
what about failed tank arjun and famously infamous INSAS rifles by DRDO ?
 

Zebra

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Read the above post to realise why FGFA is a mess.

Blame it on........the IAF?
Sir, PM Modi is too soft towards Indian Air Force.

No good.

There is no need to pamper them at all.

If IAF guys are not there as HAL chief, then does it mean HAL is bad!


One has to be contemporary for the adversarial environment when the development is cannot keep pace with the adversarial scenario and is behind times.

Is that wrong?

Gnats did very well in the war, but would it be still acceptable?

Think that over.

and what have you to say of this - wanting changes including a more powerful engine, optimisation of the aerodynamic qualities and weight of the aircraft and "dropping and replacing" certain parts to take care of obsolescence?
Sir, this was HAL's first fighter aircraft project.

If there are shortfalls then later on they can be upgraded it also.

At the end of the day, it is our own project.

On top of it, this is not first project where IAF played the same trick.

Whenever 60-70% work get done, only and only after it IAF will pull the plug that engine is under power.

Why the hell they waited till 60-70% work get finished...!

What are there purpose behind these kind of dramas.

FGFA is a mess.
Then our own AMCA and other three options left.

a) Japan
b) US
c) Sweden

Out of these three, which one you like sir!
 

Lions Of Punjab

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Light Combat Aircraft: Need for course correction I | StratPost

Light Combat Aircraft: Need for course correction I

Air Marshal M Matheswaran (retired) goes back in history to examine the reasons why the Light Combat Aircraft project has failed to meet expectations.

Every major power – and there are just a handful of them – have the capability to aspire to design, develop and manufacture fighter aircraft by themselves. Now, ideally, this would include all critical technologies – aero-engines, aircraft design, metallurgy, radar, sensors and weapons. However, very few countries have mastery and control in all these areas; the early birds or leaders – USA, Russia, UK and France are closely followed by Germany, Japan, Italy and Sweden.

Aspirants after the Second World War included Argentina, Brazil, China, Egypt, India, Indonesia, Israel, Iran, South Korea and Taiwan, of which only a few have emerged as successful late entrants into the aerospace club.

These are Brazil, China, India, Israel and South Korea. While China and Israel lead the pack, all of them have built capabilities and strengths in a few domains but no one has comprehensive mastery of all the relevant technologies.

The most complex challenge involves design and development of aero-engines and aviation grade materials. Except for China to some extent, none of the others have achieved any meaningful control of technology in these two domains. The mastery of aerospace technology will continue to remain a huge challenge for emerging powers like India.

Good beginning but poor follow-up

India's aspiration to build its own fighter aircraft began well with the HF-24 programme. India took the prescient decision to bring in Dr Kurt Tank to head the design team in the fifties, when denial regimes were yet to take shape.

In the aftermath of the Second World War, Dr Kurt Tank had offered his services to Argentina which gladly accepted. By 1948, he had designed the fighter Pulqui II, a state-of-the-art fighter in its time. A prototype was built but its development was cut short by Argentina's political turmoil.

That is when he moved to India and taught at IIT, Madras before he was entrusted in 1957 with the task of designing the HF-24 for Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Until then, the only aircraft designed and built by HAL was the basic trainer HT-2. Attempting to develop the HF-24 after the HT-2 was an audacious leap in aspiration.

Dr Kurt Tank was allowed to bring his small team of German engineers who formed the nucleus of the final design strength of 150 HAL engineers by the end of the development. The project was sanctioned in 1957 and the first prototype flew in 1961, a mere four years later and the first squadron of series production aircraft went operational in 1967, only six years later!

Though handicapped by underpowered engines, the HF-24 acquitted itself well in the strike role in the 1971 Indo-Pak war.

The HF-24 was, in its time, a brilliant design and a state-of-the-art aircraft. The programme met an untimely demise in 1982 due to the short-sightedness of the User, Government and the Industry.

The User's leadership displayed singular lack of foresight and national perspective when it decided to phase out the aircraft in 1982, a mere 15 years later. The political leadership and the bureaucracy displayed ignorance and strategic blindness during the course of the HF-24's development and operational life. Decisions on engine development with foreign collaboration were shelved under the pretext of being too expensive, when the cost involved was a mere Rs 5 crores.

The industry failed to follow a strategy of developing improved derivatives in order to sustain the huge leap achieved with the help of Dr Kurt Tank's team.

The net result was withering away of precious talent. The entire 1970s was a lost decade.

HAL shifted its focus to license production of MiG-21s and when the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) decision was taken in 1985, HAL's design capability was at an all time low. It lost the control of the design process and management to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which created the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) to manage the LCA programme.

LCA – Genesis and Flawed Decisions

Of late there have been frequent articles written by a few self-proclaimed champions of indigenisation and Tejas patriots. Although they presume a license to comment on how the Indian Air Force (IAF) must learn to fly and fight any war with the Tejas as its backbone and not pursue the MMRCA or FGFA, their views are spectacularly misinformed and reflect their ignorance of aeronautics, air combat and strategy and military aviation. They would do well to study the LCA programme's genesis, development, hurdles, indigenous content and its true performance in order to appreciate its possible role and potential. The following narrative is for their benefit as well.

The Light Combat Aircraft concept was earlier referred to as the Light Weight Fighter (LWF). This concept has been a source of much study and research throughout aviation history to try and achieve performance requirements at affordable cost. This became more feasible in the jet age as downsizing of engines was relatively easier.

The Folland Gnat, which the IAF flew successfully in its 1965 and 1971 wars, was a classic Light Weight Fighter whose performance, in its age, was excellent at minimal cost, although it also brought with it large compromises in safety and reliability.

The MiG 21 has effectively proved to be the most successful Light Weight Fighter since its introduction. The IAF will have operated the MiG-21 for almost six decades if it phases out the last of them by 2020. The focus of the concept of the light weight fighter has always been low cost balanced by acceptable performance.

The genesis of modern Light Weight Fighter development goes back to the late sixties and early seventies, which ultimately resulted in the production of the most efficient Light Weight Fighter of the century, the F-16. The "Fighter Mafia" led by the late John Boyd and his Energy-Manoeuvrability theory laid the foundation for future light weight fighter development.

This radical change in concept became necessary because of the poor performance of technologically advanced, heavily armed, expensive and large aircraft like the F-4 Phantom against the low cost, technologically inferior but much smaller, highly nimble and agile aircraft like the MiG-15 and the MiG-21. A process of competitive prototype development was adopted. At the core of the LWF's design requirement was performance.

The YF-16, which won the prototype competition in 1972, was the first aircraft design to be based on unstable platform and fly-by-wire control system. It was also the first to use composite material for structures. The rest is history.

The prototype programme began in 1971 and the series production F-16 was in operational service by 1978. Fundamentally, the F-16 programme validated the relevance of balancing technology while keeping performance and low cost as the drivers of the programme.

By the late 1970s the IAF was looking for a replacement for its accident- prone and unreliable Gnat and its Indian version, the Ajeet. The requirement was a low-cost, conventional aircraft to replace the Gnat/Ajeet and the early MiG-21 fleet (Fishbed) by the late 1980s.

Based on its experience of the Gnat and the need for a low-cost fighter, the IAF projected the requirement for a small fighter of 5 tonnes empty weight. This would have left the aircraft only marginally larger than the Gnat and even smaller than the MiG-21.

This was a flawed approach and indicated that the Light Weight Fighter concept had not been studied in depth and could have been due to inadequate information at that time.

But that is only partially correct, as HAL did the feasibility study with consultancies from all leading aircraft design houses of Europe.

After the initial feasibility studies the IAF and HAL concurred on the plan for a conventional fixed wing fighter to be developed. The DRDO then stepped in to suggest that the fighter development programme be used to bridge technology gaps – Fly-By-Wire (FBW) control system, airborne radar, aero-engine and composite structures.

By the early 1980s this was agreed to and an ambitious plan to develop a fourth generation platform with high performance was put up to convince the government. The approval was followed up by the formulation of the Air Staff Requirements (ASR) in tune with the performance expected of a fourth generation fighter.

This is where the anomalies in decision-making crept in.

To develop a fourth generation fighter within a 5-ton lightweight airframe was a tall order. And although it was revised upwards to a 6-ton empty weight requirement, even this was difficult to achieve.

The projected time frame of less than a decade for the completion of development and operational induction of the aircraft was not only over-optimistic but also almost foolhardy, given the status of the technical base that existed with respect to FBW, aero-engine and the airborne radar.

Starting from scratch, each of these would have required nothing less than two decades of focused research and foreign assistance.

Ultimately, two of the major technology objectives were not achieved: the Kaveri aero-engine programme floundered even after three decades of work and has now been declared foreclosed, while the airborne radar did not make any headway and was dropped in 2006 in favour of the Israeli Elta-2032 radar.
 

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Light Combat Aircraft: The need for course correction II | StratPost

Air Marshal M Matheshwaran analyzes exactly why the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft will never fully meet the ASR and cannot become the IAF 's frontline fighter in the Lo segment.

Continued from Part I

LCA Concept and Key Decisions

The aircraft project was now called the Light Combat Aircraft in order to create an identity distinct from the Light Weight Fighter concept.

However, it was evident that the concept suffered from the IAF's fixation with the original idea of it replacing the Gnat and MiG-21 FL aircraft. That's why the size and weight limitation of remained close to the original idea. This created a contradiction in the programme, which the IAF failed to notice, at first.

The aircraft was destined to have a Radius of Action no better than the 40-year-old MiG-21 because of its low weight and small size.

While the size was kept small to cater to the primary imperative of low cost, it became impossible to achieve because of the introduction of high technology requirements. The challenges were timeframes, cost and performance. Bringing in high technology development requirements made huge time overruns inevitable. This was either not foreseen or the authorities and agencies concerned refused to acknowledge and recognise it.

The net result is that the relevance of the LCA concept, envisaged more than three decades ago, is now in question in terms of the operational and technical environment of the IAF today.

Although hindsight analysis is always easier than decision-making at a particular time, subsequent analysis of development projects remains important in order to learn the right lessons for the future, particularly when the product developed fails to meet the core objectives.

In that context the following questions/observations need to be answered:

(a) What was the original objective of the programme? Was it to fulfil the operational imperative of the IAF with a suitable indigenous replacement for its obsolete and ageing fleet or was it national imperative that an advanced fighter aircraft is made in India?

The former was an operational and time-sensitive imperative while the latter was a technology-acquisition imperative.

Why were these two contradicting requirements not balanced?

(b) The concept of LCA was to have been based on the successful Light Weight Fighter programme of the USAF.

It is now evident that more in-depth research would have allowed strategic foresight in defining the size and weight limitations of the aircraft with a focus on cost. Misplaced beliefs about the Gnat's invincibility as a low-cost Light Weight Fighter had an unreasonably overarching influence on decisions on the size and weight of the LCA.

The ASR 2/85 was approved in 1985 after more than two years of deliberations. During this period the IAF was fully aware of the performance, technological sophistication and operational relevance of the F-16 and Mirage 2000 fighters. The development of the Lavi by Israel also had significant lessons for us. Better research and analysis could have led to more considered decisions.

(c) When DRDO inserted the need for state-of-the-art technologies to be developed in the LCA programme, why were timelines not estimated with reasonable accuracy?

It was apparent that some of the technologies would take nearly three decades to mature, which became evident, finally. But project managers repeatedly asserted that the LCA would enter service in less than decade!

Scrutiny of these claims in detail could have led to strategically wiser decisions. To say that these assertions were simply errors of judgement would be either a gross understatement or purposely disingenuous.

(d) The IAF did voice its concerns repeatedly but these were overlooked.

Interested parties portrayed the IAF's concerns about the serious impact to its force structure by the long delays in the LCA programme as almost being an obstruction to the national endeavour. As a result, the IAF simply stayed away. This was a serious blunder.

Instead, the IAF should have convinced the government and taken full control of the programme, as is done in other programmes around the world. It was critically important that the User drive the programme in order to balance operational needs and technology development needs.

(e) The LCA began as a programme from scratch. The long development period and the possibility of consequent slippage were inherent in these decisions and that's why, it should have been foreseen naturally. However, periodic statements made by project managers over the last 20 years belie such understanding.

Given the urgency and priority of the air force's requirement it is surprising that the IAF went along with such decisions when alternate courses of action were available.

The HF-24 was a proven airframe but ended prematurely due largely to its underpowered engines. Since the US GE 404 engines were decided and procured for the LCA even before work on the first prototype began, it is surprising that the same engines were not considered as an immediate option to power the revised and upgraded HF-24 airframe.

This could have given the air force a very viable frontline fighter aircraft that could have entered operational service twenty years ago while the LCA continued in its realistic development phase.

Such a derivative based approach would have been the most logical strategy to follow as the two would have complimented and strengthened the development process. Instead we frittered away the lessons, skills and human resources of the HF-24 experience.

LCA Development – Achievements and Shortfalls

The LCA programme became primarily a technology development programme and its operational performance was unintentionally relegated to second priority. That's why, although there are significant achievements in the technology area, there are also serious deficiencies in the performance area.

Development and mastering the digital Fly-By-Wire flight control system is the most significant achievement of the programme. The concept, forming a national control law team for development, its execution and the final result have all been done in an exemplary manner, overcoming enormous challenges.

The LCA has a significantly large share of its structures and surfaces made of carbon composite material. The process of developing the required fibres and converting them into the required structures were mastered over a period of time. This is another significant achievement.

The Composite Manufacturing Division (CMD) of HAL is truly a world-class facility and addresses the requirement of both the LCA and the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and its derivatives. There are also private sector players who have established similar facilities that have created increased capacity.

However, there exists vulnerability due to the import dependence on the raw material (Carbon Prepegs). This is an area where research should have commenced at the same time as the LCA programme.

Other significant achievements are in the areas of system integration, glass cockpit and mission computer, components development and engineering such as jet fuel starter, accessory gearbox and indigenisation of imported critical equipment such as the actuator.

Major technology shortfalls have been the non-realisation of the aero-engine and the multi-mode radar. In spite of major achievements in critical technology areas like the FBW and composites, the LCA as a weapons platform is still critically dependent on imported equipment when it comes to the power plant, materials, fire-control radar, EW, sensors and weapons.

Serious shortfalls also lie in the area of operational performance. The lack of an early focus on operational issues has resulted in poor weight management.

As a result, the LCA is significantly overweight and cannot meet the thrust to weight requirement in the air-combat configuration.

It would actually have been prudent to choose a canard-delta design considering the severe size and weight limitations. This was also the recommendation of the consultants in the early phase. It is strange that this was not followed. Instead we chose to rely on a pure tail-less delta design and thought that the combination of unstable platform and digital FBW flight control system would generate enough performance. This was not possible, as subsequent results have shown.

Interestingly the Gripen, which is almost similar to the LCA and uses the same engine, has a canard and delta combination. So do the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

It is now clear that one of the reasons as to why the LCA will never fully meet the ASR is due to the basic choice of the platform design.

The aircraft also suffers from high supersonic drag and poor intake efficiency, as well as significant shortfalls in performance related to turn rates, acceleration, top speed and rate of climb.

While the aircraft may have excellent flight controls, good sensors and weapons, these critical deficiencies have a placed a question mark on the operational relevance of the aircraft.

Quite naturally, the IAF would be worried about LCA's ability to provide the necessary operational strength.

Why is India losing the plot?

It appears that history is repeating itself. The HF-24, although an excellent design, failed to meet a significant part of its operational requirement – the air defence role – due to its underpowered engines. A failure to address this critical need was the primary reason why the air force phased it out prematurely. It resulted in discontinuity in the indigenous fighter development capability.

The expertise created from the HF-24 programme was allowed to decay. Work on the LCA began from scratch.

Given the serious shortfall in the performance of the LCA, a focus on its inability to meet the ASR would result in a repetition of the HF-24 story. That's why, it is important to recognise the larger strategic need, which is consolidation of the indigenous fighter aircraft development capability.

For this, the LCA needs to be audited appropriately, taking into consideration its strengths and deficiencies. Here the original Light Weight Fighter programme offers the right lessons. This programme focused on developing a Light Weight Fighter at a low cost but with the performance parameters of a frontline fighter that could compliment the more expensive, larger and technically far superior F-15. This is how the Hi-Lo mix evolved.

In a similar manner if the LCA had met the ASR, it would have complimented the higher and expensive mix of Su-30 and MMRCA. The crux is in performance.

But since there are serious deficiencies in performance, the LCA cannot become the IAF 's frontline fighter in the Lo segment. Neither can the LCA fill the slot of the MMRCA or its equivalent role. More importantly, the IAF cannot afford to look for a one-to-one replacement of its ageing MiG-21.

India's profile and its environment of the 1970s and early 80s may have sufficed with a one-to-one replacement for the MiG-21. India's increasing stature and global role, its threat environment and rapid technological developments in the world mandates an aircraft with better performance and radius of action in this segment.

One can see this in the Chinese case. The JF-17, similar to the LCA, is developed for export customers and has no place in the PLAAF's inventory.

What is the solution?

The solution is to re-strategise the LCA's slot in the IAF's operational force structure, while keeping the need to continue, consolidate and stabilise India's fighter aircraft industry.

This will call for a realistic assessment of the LCA's operational role.

More importantly, the need to develop the next version as the first main frontline indigenous fighter aircraft should be realised quickly. A broader strategy will need to be put in place for this to happen.

The LCA MK II should be seen as the vehicle that will address the requirements of larger operational radius, better performance and greater indigenisation.

It could either be a single-engine aircraft with a redesigned airframe and a larger fuel capacity on the lines of the Gripen NG or it could be a twin-engine version of the LCA with just incremental technology.

A cost-benefit-performance analysis of the two needs to be deliberated seriously.

This can only be achieved if industry is allowed to take full charge, with private industry playing a major role and a foreign OEM is brought in as a risk-sharing partner and technology provider.

This would also have the advantage of providing continuity further on to the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.
 

Lions Of Punjab

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Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
652
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Country flag
Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Light Combat Aircraft: The need for course correction II | StratPost

Air Marshal M Matheshwaran analyzes exactly why the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft will never fully meet the ASR and cannot become the IAF 's frontline fighter in the Lo segment.

Continued from Part I

LCA Concept and Key Decisions

The aircraft project was now called the Light Combat Aircraft in order to create an identity distinct from the Light Weight Fighter concept.

However, it was evident that the concept suffered from the IAF's fixation with the original idea of it replacing the Gnat and MiG-21 FL aircraft. That's why the size and weight limitation of remained close to the original idea. This created a contradiction in the programme, which the IAF failed to notice, at first.

The aircraft was destined to have a Radius of Action no better than the 40-year-old MiG-21 because of its low weight and small size.

While the size was kept small to cater to the primary imperative of low cost, it became impossible to achieve because of the introduction of high technology requirements. The challenges were timeframes, cost and performance. Bringing in high technology development requirements made huge time overruns inevitable. This was either not foreseen or the authorities and agencies concerned refused to acknowledge and recognise it.

The net result is that the relevance of the LCA concept, envisaged more than three decades ago, is now in question in terms of the operational and technical environment of the IAF today.

Although hindsight analysis is always easier than decision-making at a particular time, subsequent analysis of development projects remains important in order to learn the right lessons for the future, particularly when the product developed fails to meet the core objectives.

In that context the following questions/observations need to be answered:

(a) What was the original objective of the programme? Was it to fulfil the operational imperative of the IAF with a suitable indigenous replacement for its obsolete and ageing fleet or was it national imperative that an advanced fighter aircraft is made in India?

The former was an operational and time-sensitive imperative while the latter was a technology-acquisition imperative.

Why were these two contradicting requirements not balanced?

(b) The concept of LCA was to have been based on the successful Light Weight Fighter programme of the USAF.

It is now evident that more in-depth research would have allowed strategic foresight in defining the size and weight limitations of the aircraft with a focus on cost. Misplaced beliefs about the Gnat's invincibility as a low-cost Light Weight Fighter had an unreasonably overarching influence on decisions on the size and weight of the LCA.

The ASR 2/85 was approved in 1985 after more than two years of deliberations. During this period the IAF was fully aware of the performance, technological sophistication and operational relevance of the F-16 and Mirage 2000 fighters. The development of the Lavi by Israel also had significant lessons for us. Better research and analysis could have led to more considered decisions.

(c) When DRDO inserted the need for state-of-the-art technologies to be developed in the LCA programme, why were timelines not estimated with reasonable accuracy?

It was apparent that some of the technologies would take nearly three decades to mature, which became evident, finally. But project managers repeatedly asserted that the LCA would enter service in less than decade!

Scrutiny of these claims in detail could have led to strategically wiser decisions. To say that these assertions were simply errors of judgement would be either a gross understatement or purposely disingenuous.

(d) The IAF did voice its concerns repeatedly but these were overlooked.

Interested parties portrayed the IAF's concerns about the serious impact to its force structure by the long delays in the LCA programme as almost being an obstruction to the national endeavour. As a result, the IAF simply stayed away. This was a serious blunder.

Instead, the IAF should have convinced the government and taken full control of the programme, as is done in other programmes around the world. It was critically important that the User drive the programme in order to balance operational needs and technology development needs.

(e) The LCA began as a programme from scratch. The long development period and the possibility of consequent slippage were inherent in these decisions and that's why, it should have been foreseen naturally. However, periodic statements made by project managers over the last 20 years belie such understanding.

Given the urgency and priority of the air force's requirement it is surprising that the IAF went along with such decisions when alternate courses of action were available.

The HF-24 was a proven airframe but ended prematurely due largely to its underpowered engines. Since the US GE 404 engines were decided and procured for the LCA even before work on the first prototype began, it is surprising that the same engines were not considered as an immediate option to power the revised and upgraded HF-24 airframe.

This could have given the air force a very viable frontline fighter aircraft that could have entered operational service twenty years ago while the LCA continued in its realistic development phase.

Such a derivative based approach would have been the most logical strategy to follow as the two would have complimented and strengthened the development process. Instead we frittered away the lessons, skills and human resources of the HF-24 experience.

LCA Development – Achievements and Shortfalls

The LCA programme became primarily a technology development programme and its operational performance was unintentionally relegated to second priority. That's why, although there are significant achievements in the technology area, there are also serious deficiencies in the performance area.

Development and mastering the digital Fly-By-Wire flight control system is the most significant achievement of the programme. The concept, forming a national control law team for development, its execution and the final result have all been done in an exemplary manner, overcoming enormous challenges.

The LCA has a significantly large share of its structures and surfaces made of carbon composite material. The process of developing the required fibres and converting them into the required structures were mastered over a period of time. This is another significant achievement.

The Composite Manufacturing Division (CMD) of HAL is truly a world-class facility and addresses the requirement of both the LCA and the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and its derivatives. There are also private sector players who have established similar facilities that have created increased capacity.

However, there exists vulnerability due to the import dependence on the raw material (Carbon Prepegs). This is an area where research should have commenced at the same time as the LCA programme.

Other significant achievements are in the areas of system integration, glass cockpit and mission computer, components development and engineering such as jet fuel starter, accessory gearbox and indigenisation of imported critical equipment such as the actuator.

Major technology shortfalls have been the non-realisation of the aero-engine and the multi-mode radar. In spite of major achievements in critical technology areas like the FBW and composites, the LCA as a weapons platform is still critically dependent on imported equipment when it comes to the power plant, materials, fire-control radar, EW, sensors and weapons.

Serious shortfalls also lie in the area of operational performance. The lack of an early focus on operational issues has resulted in poor weight management.

As a result, the LCA is significantly overweight and cannot meet the thrust to weight requirement in the air-combat configuration.

It would actually have been prudent to choose a canard-delta design considering the severe size and weight limitations. This was also the recommendation of the consultants in the early phase. It is strange that this was not followed. Instead we chose to rely on a pure tail-less delta design and thought that the combination of unstable platform and digital FBW flight control system would generate enough performance. This was not possible, as subsequent results have shown.

Interestingly the Gripen, which is almost similar to the LCA and uses the same engine, has a canard and delta combination. So do the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

It is now clear that one of the reasons as to why the LCA will never fully meet the ASR is due to the basic choice of the platform design.

The aircraft also suffers from high supersonic drag and poor intake efficiency, as well as significant shortfalls in performance related to turn rates, acceleration, top speed and rate of climb.

While the aircraft may have excellent flight controls, good sensors and weapons, these critical deficiencies have a placed a question mark on the operational relevance of the aircraft.

Quite naturally, the IAF would be worried about LCA's ability to provide the necessary operational strength.

Why is India losing the plot?

It appears that history is repeating itself. The HF-24, although an excellent design, failed to meet a significant part of its operational requirement – the air defence role – due to its underpowered engines. A failure to address this critical need was the primary reason why the air force phased it out prematurely. It resulted in discontinuity in the indigenous fighter development capability.

The expertise created from the HF-24 programme was allowed to decay. Work on the LCA began from scratch.

Given the serious shortfall in the performance of the LCA, a focus on its inability to meet the ASR would result in a repetition of the HF-24 story. That's why, it is important to recognise the larger strategic need, which is consolidation of the indigenous fighter aircraft development capability.

For this, the LCA needs to be audited appropriately, taking into consideration its strengths and deficiencies. Here the original Light Weight Fighter programme offers the right lessons. This programme focused on developing a Light Weight Fighter at a low cost but with the performance parameters of a frontline fighter that could compliment the more expensive, larger and technically far superior F-15. This is how the Hi-Lo mix evolved.

In a similar manner if the LCA had met the ASR, it would have complimented the higher and expensive mix of Su-30 and MMRCA. The crux is in performance.

But since there are serious deficiencies in performance, the LCA cannot become the IAF 's frontline fighter in the Lo segment. Neither can the LCA fill the slot of the MMRCA or its equivalent role. More importantly, the IAF cannot afford to look for a one-to-one replacement of its ageing MiG-21.

India's profile and its environment of the 1970s and early 80s may have sufficed with a one-to-one replacement for the MiG-21. India's increasing stature and global role, its threat environment and rapid technological developments in the world mandates an aircraft with better performance and radius of action in this segment.

One can see this in the Chinese case. The JF-17, similar to the LCA, is developed for export customers and has no place in the PLAAF's inventory.

What is the solution?

The solution is to re-strategise the LCA's slot in the IAF's operational force structure, while keeping the need to continue, consolidate and stabilise India's fighter aircraft industry.

This will call for a realistic assessment of the LCA's operational role.

More importantly, the need to develop the next version as the first main frontline indigenous fighter aircraft should be realised quickly. A broader strategy will need to be put in place for this to happen.

The LCA MK II should be seen as the vehicle that will address the requirements of larger operational radius, better performance and greater indigenisation.

It could either be a single-engine aircraft with a redesigned airframe and a larger fuel capacity on the lines of the Gripen NG or it could be a twin-engine version of the LCA with just incremental technology.

A cost-benefit-performance analysis of the two needs to be deliberated seriously.

This can only be achieved if industry is allowed to take full charge, with private industry playing a major role and a foreign OEM is brought in as a risk-sharing partner and technology provider.

This would also have the advantage of providing continuity further on to the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.
 

ersakthivel

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Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Light Combat Aircraft: The need for course correction II | StratPost

Air Marshal M Matheshwaran analyzes exactly why the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft will never fully meet the ASR and cannot become the IAF 's frontline fighter in the Lo segment.

Continued from Part I

LCA Concept and Key Decisions

The aircraft project was now called the Light Combat Aircraft in order to create an identity distinct from the Light Weight Fighter concept.

However, it was evident that the concept suffered from the IAF's fixation with the original idea of it replacing the Gnat and MiG-21 FL aircraft. That's why the size and weight limitation of remained close to the original idea. This created a contradiction in the programme, which the IAF failed to notice, at first.

The aircraft was destined to have a Radius of Action no better than the 40-year-old MiG-21 because of its low weight and small size.

While the size was kept small to cater to the primary imperative of low cost, it became impossible to achieve because of the introduction of high technology requirements. The challenges were timeframes, cost and performance. Bringing in high technology development requirements made huge time overruns inevitable. This was either not foreseen or the authorities and agencies concerned refused to acknowledge and recognise it.

The net result is that the relevance of the LCA concept, envisaged more than three decades ago, is now in question in terms of the operational and technical environment of the IAF today.

Although hindsight analysis is always easier than decision-making at a particular time, subsequent analysis of development projects remains important in order to learn the right lessons for the future, particularly when the product developed fails to meet the core objectives.

In that context the following questions/observations need to be answered:

(a) What was the original objective of the programme? Was it to fulfil the operational imperative of the IAF with a suitable indigenous replacement for its obsolete and ageing fleet or was it national imperative that an advanced fighter aircraft is made in India?

The former was an operational and time-sensitive imperative while the latter was a technology-acquisition imperative.

Why were these two contradicting requirements not balanced?

(b) The concept of LCA was to have been based on the successful Light Weight Fighter programme of the USAF.

It is now evident that more in-depth research would have allowed strategic foresight in defining the size and weight limitations of the aircraft with a focus on cost. Misplaced beliefs about the Gnat's invincibility as a low-cost Light Weight Fighter had an unreasonably overarching influence on decisions on the size and weight of the LCA.

The ASR 2/85 was approved in 1985 after more than two years of deliberations. During this period the IAF was fully aware of the performance, technological sophistication and operational relevance of the F-16 and Mirage 2000 fighters. The development of the Lavi by Israel also had significant lessons for us. Better research and analysis could have led to more considered decisions.

(c) When DRDO inserted the need for state-of-the-art technologies to be developed in the LCA programme, why were timelines not estimated with reasonable accuracy?

It was apparent that some of the technologies would take nearly three decades to mature, which became evident, finally. But project managers repeatedly asserted that the LCA would enter service in less than decade!

Scrutiny of these claims in detail could have led to strategically wiser decisions. To say that these assertions were simply errors of judgement would be either a gross understatement or purposely disingenuous.

(d) The IAF did voice its concerns repeatedly but these were overlooked.

Interested parties portrayed the IAF's concerns about the serious impact to its force structure by the long delays in the LCA programme as almost being an obstruction to the national endeavour. As a result, the IAF simply stayed away. This was a serious blunder.

Instead, the IAF should have convinced the government and taken full control of the programme, as is done in other programmes around the world. It was critically important that the User drive the programme in order to balance operational needs and technology development needs.

(e) The LCA began as a programme from scratch. The long development period and the possibility of consequent slippage were inherent in these decisions and that's why, it should have been foreseen naturally. However, periodic statements made by project managers over the last 20 years belie such understanding.

Given the urgency and priority of the air force's requirement it is surprising that the IAF went along with such decisions when alternate courses of action were available.

The HF-24 was a proven airframe but ended prematurely due largely to its underpowered engines. Since the US GE 404 engines were decided and procured for the LCA even before work on the first prototype began, it is surprising that the same engines were not considered as an immediate option to power the revised and upgraded HF-24 airframe.

This could have given the air force a very viable frontline fighter aircraft that could have entered operational service twenty years ago while the LCA continued in its realistic development phase.

Such a derivative based approach would have been the most logical strategy to follow as the two would have complimented and strengthened the development process. Instead we frittered away the lessons, skills and human resources of the HF-24 experience.

LCA Development – Achievements and Shortfalls

The LCA programme became primarily a technology development programme and its operational performance was unintentionally relegated to second priority. That's why, although there are significant achievements in the technology area, there are also serious deficiencies in the performance area.

Development and mastering the digital Fly-By-Wire flight control system is the most significant achievement of the programme. The concept, forming a national control law team for development, its execution and the final result have all been done in an exemplary manner, overcoming enormous challenges.

The LCA has a significantly large share of its structures and surfaces made of carbon composite material. The process of developing the required fibres and converting them into the required structures were mastered over a period of time. This is another significant achievement.

The Composite Manufacturing Division (CMD) of HAL is truly a world-class facility and addresses the requirement of both the LCA and the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and its derivatives. There are also private sector players who have established similar facilities that have created increased capacity.

However, there exists vulnerability due to the import dependence on the raw material (Carbon Prepegs). This is an area where research should have commenced at the same time as the LCA programme.

Other significant achievements are in the areas of system integration, glass cockpit and mission computer, components development and engineering such as jet fuel starter, accessory gearbox and indigenisation of imported critical equipment such as the actuator.

Major technology shortfalls have been the non-realisation of the aero-engine and the multi-mode radar. In spite of major achievements in critical technology areas like the FBW and composites, the LCA as a weapons platform is still critically dependent on imported equipment when it comes to the power plant, materials, fire-control radar, EW, sensors and weapons.

Serious shortfalls also lie in the area of operational performance. The lack of an early focus on operational issues has resulted in poor weight management.

As a result, the LCA is significantly overweight and cannot meet the thrust to weight requirement in the air-combat configuration.

It would actually have been prudent to choose a canard-delta design considering the severe size and weight limitations. This was also the recommendation of the consultants in the early phase. It is strange that this was not followed. Instead we chose to rely on a pure tail-less delta design and thought that the combination of unstable platform and digital FBW flight control system would generate enough performance. This was not possible, as subsequent results have shown.

Interestingly the Gripen, which is almost similar to the LCA and uses the same engine, has a canard and delta combination. So do the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

It is now clear that one of the reasons as to why the LCA will never fully meet the ASR is due to the basic choice of the platform design.

The aircraft also suffers from high supersonic drag and poor intake efficiency, as well as significant shortfalls in performance related to turn rates, acceleration, top speed and rate of climb.

While the aircraft may have excellent flight controls, good sensors and weapons, these critical deficiencies have a placed a question mark on the operational relevance of the aircraft.

Quite naturally, the IAF would be worried about LCA's ability to provide the necessary operational strength.

Why is India losing the plot?

It appears that history is repeating itself. The HF-24, although an excellent design, failed to meet a significant part of its operational requirement – the air defence role – due to its underpowered engines. A failure to address this critical need was the primary reason why the air force phased it out prematurely. It resulted in discontinuity in the indigenous fighter development capability.

The expertise created from the HF-24 programme was allowed to decay. Work on the LCA began from scratch.

Given the serious shortfall in the performance of the LCA, a focus on its inability to meet the ASR would result in a repetition of the HF-24 story. That's why, it is important to recognise the larger strategic need, which is consolidation of the indigenous fighter aircraft development capability.

For this, the LCA needs to be audited appropriately, taking into consideration its strengths and deficiencies. Here the original Light Weight Fighter programme offers the right lessons. This programme focused on developing a Light Weight Fighter at a low cost but with the performance parameters of a frontline fighter that could compliment the more expensive, larger and technically far superior F-15. This is how the Hi-Lo mix evolved.

In a similar manner if the LCA had met the ASR, it would have complimented the higher and expensive mix of Su-30 and MMRCA. The crux is in performance.

But since there are serious deficiencies in performance, the LCA cannot become the IAF 's frontline fighter in the Lo segment. Neither can the LCA fill the slot of the MMRCA or its equivalent role. More importantly, the IAF cannot afford to look for a one-to-one replacement of its ageing MiG-21.

India's profile and its environment of the 1970s and early 80s may have sufficed with a one-to-one replacement for the MiG-21. India's increasing stature and global role, its threat environment and rapid technological developments in the world mandates an aircraft with better performance and radius of action in this segment.

One can see this in the Chinese case. The JF-17, similar to the LCA, is developed for export customers and has no place in the PLAAF's inventory.

What is the solution?

The solution is to re-strategise the LCA's slot in the IAF's operational force structure, while keeping the need to continue, consolidate and stabilise India's fighter aircraft industry.

This will call for a realistic assessment of the LCA's operational role.

More importantly, the need to develop the next version as the first main frontline indigenous fighter aircraft should be realised quickly. A broader strategy will need to be put in place for this to happen.

The LCA MK II should be seen as the vehicle that will address the requirements of larger operational radius, better performance and greater indigenisation.

It could either be a single-engine aircraft with a redesigned airframe and a larger fuel capacity on the lines of the Gripen NG or it could be a twin-engine version of the LCA with just incremental technology.

A cost-benefit-performance analysis of the two needs to be deliberated seriously.

This can only be achieved if industry is allowed to take full charge, with private industry playing a major role and a foreign OEM is brought in as a risk-sharing partner and technology provider.

This would also have the advantage of providing continuity further on to the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.
Please don't post stratpost garbage here.

From the inception Tejas was modelled to exceed Mirage-2000 specs and even in mk1 it does. it is a stupid thing to straight jacket it into Mig-21 replacement.

while Matheswaran and many retired and retiring worthies of IAF call for stopping the program and saying Tejas mk1 is inferior to Mig-21 , IAF group captain and mirage pilot Suneth krishna who has flown both Mirage-2000 and Tejas mk1 says plainly that ,"even in mk1 tejas equals mirage-2000 with 45 million dollar per plane upgrade".

Who is right?

Import lobby tries to fool people by comparing the top speeds of mig-21 with tejas mk1 and saying since tejas has a top speed of mach ( tested till now)1.6 which is lower than that of mig-21 top speed of mach 2 , it is inferior.

Then how come they plump for rafale which has a certified top speed lessed than that of mirage-2000 and mig-21?

the devil is as often in the detail. No fighter plane can clear even hundred Kms in its topspeed fuel will run out immediately. And to evade missile or gun fire what is more important is not top speed but higher Instantaneous turn rate, higher TWR , lower wing loading , in all departments tejas mk1 scores better than Mirage-2000 , gripen C and far far better than mig-21.

It has the lowest clean config RCS of less than a third of a sq meter in entire IAF fleet , with a radar dia bigger than that of rafale.

Since no one pays our guys to talk and write about this , these details were never highlighted.
 

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