Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[johnj]

In view of repeated arguments about whether we are equipped enough to counter Pak & Chin...Given the nature of these two countries , their armed forces & rulers, Isnt that fact they do not all out attack us in itself a testimony of the fact that we have enough capability to defend them.

Why would a China or Pak or both not attack India today if they have combat superirority?

Economy. IN.

 

[johnj]

What do you think about F18 Super Hornet Block 3 or F15EX for IAF upto 2 to 3 squadrons?
Can be bought quick, before MK2 delivery starts and can be also used to understand how we want to upgrade Su 30 MKI. We can upgrade rafale to those standards as well.

Also we will have suite of American weapons as well. At least they will provide edge in some or other thing.
Hence we will have a better mix, before our platforms and systems mature.
Because keep in mind we are not going to buy 114 rafales for sure and there is no option to order 36 more Rafales due to impending order of other countries.

US option, too expensive and can't use against usa allay and not so easy to sent to attack usa top manufacturing partner.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

What do you think about F18 Super Hornet Block 3 or F15EX for IAF upto 2 to 3 squadrons?
Can be bought quick, before MK2 delivery starts and can be also used to understand how we want to upgrade Su 30 MKI. We can upgrade rafale to those standards as well.

Also we will have suite of American weapons as well. At least they will provide edge in some or other thing.
Hence we will have a better mix, before our platforms and systems mature.
Because keep in mind we are not going to buy 114 rafales for sure and there is no option to order 36 more Rafales due to impending order of other countries.

US military hardware is expensive to procure and run, it becomes even more expensive since Uncle Sam does not allow any other weapons than American ones to be integrated onto their jets.

F-18 SH has not been successful with Air Forces around the world, it is mainly looked at as a Naval fighter jet, also its quite expensive, the DSCA notification for Navy acquisition of 26 jets is pegged at $4.5 billion.

F-15EX is a heavy class fighter, same as Su30 which we operate in the hundreds, also its horridly expensive, the US State Dept approval for 36 F-15IQ (variant of F-15EX) jets to Indonesia costs $13.9 billion

 

[Maveli]

Because Russian still own the IP and we don't have balls to infringe their IP.
We will also need their help to get airworthiness certificate.

Airworthiness certificate? Do military airplanes need them? These aren't being sold to the public or carrying paid passengers.

And how are we infringing on their IP by removing and replacing components? Just ship the parts back to Russia and ask if we can maybe get a prorated refund.

 

[knathan]

Screenshot from republic day arial display... jammy >jammer > growler???

 

[Tactical Doge]

Screenshot from republic day arial display... jammy >jammer > growler???

View attachment 138641

That's just his callsign

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Hello and GM Everyone,
I would like to know the following thing from a neutral and strictly non-political angle.

Question :
Is there any difference in defense approach between pre-2014 and post-2014 leadership?
Is it positive or negative?

Please exclude the natural incremental changes which would have been regardless of the leadership.

To keep it non-political, I would appreciate it if we don't name any person or party.

While it is the wrong thread, I'll answer it as best I can.
Procurement- marginal improvement in speed. Large improvement in indigenous systems.

Defence strategy- Medium increase in offensive posture, revived threat of Indian invasion of Pakistan as response to subconventional warfare.

Negative - perceived politicization of armed forces by some sections.

 

[Wisemarko]

US option, too expensive

Which European option is cheaper than F-18? Current flyaway cost of F-18 block 3 is less than $80 million. All US weapons and sensors enjoy economies of scale and remain considerably cheaper than others.

Uncle Sam does not allow any other weapons than American ones

Absolutely not true. No other country allows more international integration than US. Just look at Rafale weapon options and compare them with any F series.

 

[knathan]

That's just his callsign

Ok sir. Thanks

 

[assassin162]

Which European option is cheaper than F-18? Current flyaway cost of F-18 block 3 is less than $80 million. All US weapons and sensors enjoy economies of scale and remain considerably cheaper than others.

I would agree with all that you said. But how come Indonesia is being charged 14 billion dollars for 36 F15EX? So how can we be so sure that F18 will also come at the price you quoted above. Can you breakdown the cost of 36 F15EX for us?

 

[Wisemarko]

I would agree with all that you said. But how come Indonesia is being charged 14 billion dollars for 36 F15EX? So how can we be so sure that F18 will also come at the price you quoted above. Can you breakdown the cost of 36 F15EX for us?

I don't know the price details of F-15EX offer to Indonesia. However, here is the USN acquisition costs for F-18 E/F:

Navy Wants to Spend $7.1B on 80 More Super Hornets Over the Next Five Years

The Navy intends to buy at least 80 more Boeing F/A-18E-F Super Hornets over the next five years to address its fighter shortfall, a change from its previous on-the-books plan to zero out the aircraft program beginning next year, the service said in congressional testimony today.

news.usni.org

"14 F-18 in 2018 for $1.25 billion , 23 in 2019 for $1.95 billion, 14 in 2020 for $1.35 billion and 14 in 2021 for $1.27 billion and 15 in 2022 for $1.28 billion." USN is paying $80-$85 million per new Hornet.

As you can see these costs do not include facilities, training, weapons or sustainment costs. No fighter jet can be assessed with only a sticker price without factoring in other costs. The other costs could be one time (training, infrastructure, modifications) or per flight hour costs that is total operating & support costs divided by total flight hours.

To get most realistic projection, Acquisition costs plus Cost per flying hour (CPFH) should be added. Note that cost of Gripen-NG variants is significantly higher.

As you can see the acquisition and operating costs of F-18 are excellent. Now let's move to weapons package.

All US weapons are NATO compatible that means, any NATO aircraft can (after integration and qualification testing) use these weapons. Due to its widespread use in Europe, all F series fighters have been integrated with European weapons however, same cannot be said about Euro-Canards. (For example, F-35 is undergoing integration with Meteor and NSM right now) but Rafale/Mirage cannot use JDAM.

Except Gripen and now Eurofighter, few spend R&D money to use US made arsenal. French aircraft are probably the least integrated of all. The result is exorbitant costs for buying nation in form of expensive French weapons or paying extra for integration of incompatible weapons. That was one of the reason for India to ask Dassault to integrate Litening/Spice with Rafale because Sagem AASM costs $300,000 per unit compared to around $30,000 per JDAM/ Spice.
From purely cost point of view, buying US weapons is always cheaper than any comparable European option. Economies of scale is a real thing! That's why allied nations continue to reap benefits of US investments.
Cheers.

 

[Love Charger]

Screenshot from republic day arial display... jammy >jammer > growler???

View attachment 138641

His name is M jam , what stands for M I don't know,nor I know his rank

 

[arnabmit]

Screenshot from republic day arial display... jammy >jammer > growler???

View attachment 138641

Like Rahul "Jammy" Dravid

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

 

[mist_consecutive]

F16 Cs from Royal Oman Air Force

 

[Poseidon]

You can call my post Dhoti shivering as much as you want but there is no doubt this a huge strategic threat to India. We cannot afford a 2 to 3 year gap behind Pakistan in inducting fifth gen fighters.

 

[mist_consecutive]

You can call my post Dhoti shivering as much as you want but there is no doubt this a huge strategic threat to India. We cannot afford a 2 to 3 year gap behind Pakistan in inducting fifth gen fighters.

More reasons for us to keep a fleet of 6+ squardon of Rafales now. Rafales will offset any immediate advantage of PAF.
If we don’t order at least 36 more Rafale, 2030s gonna be the decade we will face a massive defeat.

This govt. Is not performing any better than criminally incompetent UPA govt.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Pakistan joining tfx would mean west would refuse much western input in tfx as any paki technology would find its way to china.I dont believe turks economically are in any position to launch tfx in 27-28.

 

[fire starter]

More reasons for us to keep a fleet of 6+ squardon of Rafales now. Rafales will offset any immediate advantage of PAF.
If we don’t order at least 36 more Rafale, 2030s gonna be the decade we will face a massive defeat.

This govt. Is not performing any better than criminally incompetent UPA govt.

These all are reactionary purchase so the ball will always lie in our court. With the sustained economic and CAPEX growth, we shouldn't worry about failed bankrupt state which is on the verge on explosion, let them purchase it will further put strain on their budget.

 

[India Super Power]

More reasons for us to keep a fleet of 6+ squardon of Rafales now. Rafales will offset any immediate advantage of PAF.
If we don’t order at least 36 more Rafale, 2030s gonna be the decade we will face a massive defeat.

This govt. Is not performing any better than criminally incompetent UPA govt.

The situation we are know I can say that even a war at 2024-25 we will face a bad defeat either from Pakistan or China
Our procurement sucks and won't change even after hundred years