Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[ezsasa]

Whatever be the reason, seems MOD is hell bent on making the defaulters pay. TATA had opted for Australian product when an equivalent Indian product is available around. Seems TATA SED had been unable to make their point clear.

Reverse. They installed Indian one when they were supposed to install an Australian one.

Probably this is a case of breach of contract terms, and also no way installation was without the knowledge of IAF. They should have stopped it before installation took place.

 

[Chinmoy]

Reverse. They installed Indian one when they were supposed to install an Australian one.

Probably this is a case of breach of contract terms, and also no way installation was without the knowledge of IAF. They should have stopped it before installation took place.

Oh... My bad. I took it other way around. Thanks for pointing out.

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Interesting discussion on IAF and FGFA from LSTV (HINDI)


Takeaway from discussion

* Dangerous situation for IAF, falling squad nos, immediate requirement of jets.

* We might get one PAK-FA prototype soon if any agreement is made between India and Russia.

* FGFA's final design is not frozen yet and might take more years.

* Kaveri engine program is doing good.

* SAAB Gripen is Ideal for India's immediate requirement.

* Only 40 LCA is finalised, IAF will finalise 80 more LCAs after seeing MK1A's performance.

 

[Vinod DX9]

Need an info on the fighter jets offered to India but India denied...
I tried to make a list with available info in public domain...but need to be perfect
Aircrafts which could see service with India....(either offered, evaluated , competed)
1) Tornedo
2) Mirage F1
3) Viggen
4) Mig-31
5) Yak-38
6) Mirage-4000
7) F-16
8) Gripen
9) Mig-35
10) Typhoon
11) F/A-18
12) S 54


As Tornedo was a rip off HF-73, Rather 1,2& 3 India went for Jaguar
5 was beaten by Sea Harrier
4,6,7,8 was beaten by Su-30 MKI
Again 7,8 and 9,10,11 ultimately lost to Rafale
12 was never made as India didn't like offer

 

[Certified Gipsy]

How bad an idea is it to revive the design of HAL Marut, use two HAL HTFE 25 , use all the latest 4.5 tech avionics from Tejas and make it a light combat/advanced trainer like Yak 130? We can export it to Nepal, Myanmar, Afghanistan and many LatAm & African countries. Similarly, we should retrieve HAL Ajeeth design from archives and use single HTFE 25 to make it an intermediate trainer.

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Pak air force narrows gap as IAF struggles to get fighter jets
The Indian Air Force plans to expand its fleet but the upgrade is taking time and also facing financial hurdles.

As India struggles to beef up its fighter aircraft fleet due to slow induction of new jets, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is narrowing the gap with the Indian Air Force.

The IAF has 33 fighter squadrons compared with almost 25 units, including those for training, of the neighbouring country, translating into a combat ratio of 1.3 to 1, defence experts say. A squadron usually has 16 to 18 fighters.

That is a significant dip from 3 to 1 in IAF’s favour in the 1980s. Five years ago, the figure stood at 1.6 to 1.

“I don’t recall the combat ratio being below 1.8 to 1,” says air chief marshal Fali Major, who headed the IAF during 2007-08.

He, however, said a squadron-to-squadron comparison wasn’t fair. “The more important thing is how many aircraft are available for missions at any given time. The IAF’s serviceability is way better than the PAF’s,” he said.

The IAF hopes to strengthen its combat units with the induction of the Tejas light combat aircraft, more Sukhoi-30s, Rafale warplanes, Indo-Russian fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) and possibly a medium-weight fighter that could be built in India in collaboration with a foreign player.

Up in the air

The upgrade plan, however, has hit a few hurdles.

The fate of the FGFA appears uncertain. While a government panel is to submit its report on the viability of the multi-billion dollar programme to develop the stealth fighter with the Russians, IAF sources said budgetary constraints could come in the way.

“We do need the platform but where is the money,” an IAF officer said on condition of anonymity.

There is a sense within the IAF that the FGFA programme is too expensive for the force. A final decision would be taken by the government after the three-member panel, conducting the cost-benefit analysis, submits its report.

Plans to build single-engine and twin-engine fighters in collaboration with foreign military contractors are yet to take off.

These proposals are covered under the government’s strategic partnership model that is still being fine-tuned.

The 36 Rafale fighter planes ordered from France after a long delay also fall short of the IAF’s original requirement of 126 medium-weight fighters.

Days before he retired in December 2016, former IAF chief air chief marshal Arup Raha said the 36 Rafale warplanes ordered for $8.7 billion were not enough and India needed at least 200 such fighter jets to sharpen its military edge.

The Rafale, equipped with latest weapons and tailored for Indian needs, will be delivered to the IAF between 2019 and 2022.

Tech edge

The IAF fleet has 14 squadrons of ageing MiG-21and MiG-27 fighters that will be retired in phases by 2024. The IAF has ordered 123 Tejas aircraft that would be delivered by 2025, if all goes to plan.

Fighters such as the Rafale, Su-30, and the upgraded Mirage-2000s were superior to any fighter in the Pakistani arsenal, former chief Major said.

“The PAF’s planes such as the F-7s and older French Mirages aren’t relevant today. In terms of technology, they really don’t match us,” he said.

The PAF operates more than 80 F-16s, including second-hand F-16A/B Block 15 jets bought from the Royal Jordanian Air Force.

Bulk of the Pakistani fleet consists of older F-16A/B fighters, now upgraded to Block 52 standards in Turkey. It also has 18 F-16C/D Block 50/52 planes. Block refers to the F-16 evolution, with a higher number representing technological upgrades.

The PAF is also inducting JF-17 Thunder fighters, sometimes compared with the Tejas. Developed jointly with China, the PAF has nearly 90 JF-17s in its fleet.

Air vice-marshal Manmohan Bahadur (retd) said India needed to act fast to retain the superiority it has traditionally enjoyed over the PAF.

“The IAF has conveyed the urgency to the government and it understands. We have been slow but if the planned inductions progress smoothly, there’s not much to worry,” said Bahadur, a distinguished fellow at New Delhi-based think tank Centre for Air Power Studies.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...ighter-jets/story-keKIdw6aEYa9WyU81DDi4N.html

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Air Chief B S Dhanoa writes to each officer: Be ready for operations at short notice
“In the present scenario, there is an ever persistent sub-conventional threat. Therefore, we need to be prepared for operations with our present holdings, at a very short notice.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...tice-border-tension-militant-kashmir-4664607/

 

[TPFscopes]

New IAF C-130J caught testing at Lockheed Martin's production facility in Marietta

The aircraft with the serial number KC-3807 is speculated to be the replacement for the crashed Super Hercules (KC-3803) of the No. 77 Squadron 'Veiled Vipers'.

The aircraft will be delivered in the next few months followed by another 6 aircraft which will be based at AFS Arjan Singh in Panagarh.

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

New IAF C-130J caught testing at Lockheed Martin's production facility in Marietta

The aircraft with the serial number KC-3807 is speculated to be the replacement for the crashed Super Hercules (KC-3803) of the No. 77 Squadron 'Veiled Vipers'.

The aircraft will be delivered in the next few months followed by another 6 aircraft which will be based at AFS Arjan Singh in Panagarh.

We are in dire need of more transport aircrafts. Lets hope IAF sort out their fighter procurement mess and divert their attention to transport aircrafts.

 

[TPFscopes]

We are in dire need of more transport aircrafts. Lets hope IAF sort their fighter procurement mess and divert their attention to transport aircrafts.

Plan of C-295 was on hold due SP policy. Hope to see some fruitful results soon

 

[abingdonboy]

Plan of C-295 was on hold due SP policy. Hope to see some fruitful results soon

AFAIK, the C-295W deal won't be pursued through the SP route but the standard by and make India route as the JV is already established between TASL and Airbus Military. Contract finalisation is on and this will be entirely seperate to the SP issues.

 

[TPFscopes]

AFAIK, the C-295W deal won't be pursued through the SP route but the standard by and make India route as the JV is already established between TASL and Airbus Military. Contract finalisation is on and this will be entirely seperate to the SP issues.

Yup, its a MII Project but was on hold due to SP.
Right SP is finalized by GoI, than it'll be more clear to the manufacturers.
Now, You'll see a higher pace in the C-295 deal.

 

[abingdonboy]

Yup, its a MII Project but was on hold due to SP.
Right SP is finalized by GoI, than it'll be more clear to the manufacturers.
Now, You'll see a higher pace in the C-295 deal.

Why would SP affect this deal at all? The SP chapter has nothing to do with this deal.

 

[abingdonboy]

We are in dire need of more transport aircrafts. Lets hope IAF sort out their fighter procurement mess and divert their attention to transport aircrafts.

Sadly, neither will be sorted out anytime soon, even with more C-130s and the C-295 the gaps will persist. Firstly, the IAF had orginally projected a need for 22-26 C-17s but as the production line closed down had said they could settle for 16, they eventually ended up with just 10. By 2030, 2/3 of the heavy lift fleet (IL-76s) will be out of service, leaving just the 10 C-17s.

On top of that, the replacement for the backbone of the IAF's transport fleet, the AN-32, is totally gone, the MTA deal is dead.


And on the fighter front, instead of simply commiting to more LCA and Rafales the MoD/GoI is messing around entertaining this BS single engine offer from foreign OEMs and now it looks as though the FGFA deal is in trouble also.

 

[captscooby81]

Seriously i am surprised looking at the thinking of people in IAF by still asking for x and delaying so many procurement instead of taking y which is available ...What logic these guys really think on only god can fathom their mind..and God alone can only save us if we are going to be fucked by the paki s and chin s ..

Sadly, neither will be sorted out anytime soon, even with more C-130s and the C-295 the gaps will persist. Firstly, the IAF had orginally projected a need for 22-26 C-17s but as the production line closed down had said they could settle for 16, they eventually ended up with just 10. By 2030, 2/3 of the heavy lift fleet (IL-76s) will be out of service, leaving just the 10 C-17s.

On top of that, the replacement backbone of the IAF's transport fleet, the AN-32, is totally gone, the MTA deal is dead.


And on the fighter front, instead of simply commiting to more LCA and Rafales the MoD/GoI is messing around entertaining this BS single engine offer from foreign OEMs and now it looks as though the FGFA deal is in trouble also.

 

[abingdonboy]

Seriously i am surprised looking at the thinking of people in IAF by still asking for x and delaying so many procurement instead of taking y which is available ...What logic these guys really think on only god can fathom their mind..and God alone can only save us if we are going to be fucked by the paki s and chin s ..

Sadly, it is a typically Indian "chalta hai" mentality. I'm just a defence enthusiast but even I could see the crisis emerging many years ago so I have to assume the experts in the IAF/MoD knew full well also and yet did nothing.

And regrettably this thinking is not restricted to the IAF, just look at the IN-pushing for those 4 beastly LPDs and willing to commit $3B to them but have ZERO plans for the helicopters that will fly off them. 100+ 10-12 ton NMRH will be required for just those 4 ships, let alone the rest of the surface fleet that are having to make do with 30+ year old Sea Kings or no helos at all, but the IN has not intiated any such tender. Mark my words, in 4-5 years we will see the media waking up to this mess and asking why these white elephants are being built but there aren't any aircraft to fly off them.

Let's hope Modi can inject some sanity into the clowns at the very top and create a culture of responsible and realistic decison making because right now all 3 services are truly f)cked.

 

[Bahamut]

Sadly, neither will be sorted out anytime soon, even with more C-130s and the C-295 the gaps will persist. Firstly, the IAF had orginally projected a need for 22-26 C-17s but as the production line closed down had said they could settle for 16, they eventually ended up with just 10. By 2030, 2/3 of the heavy lift fleet (IL-76s) will be out of service, leaving just the 10 C-17s.

On top of that, the replacement backbone of the IAF's transport fleet, the AN-32, is totally gone, the MTA deal is dead.


And on the fighter front, instead of simply commiting to more LCA and Rafales the MoD/GoI is messing around entertaining this BS single engine offer from foreign OEMs and now it looks as though the FGFA deal is in trouble also.

We should by about 18-36 more C 130J and 12-18 more Il 476 help our transportation .A 400M has some major problem related to engine

On 13 May 2016, Airbus confirmed that an unknown cracking behaviour that had already been identified during quality control checks in 2011 was found in an aluminium fuselage part of a French A400M; the issue did not affect flight safety and repairs could be incorporated into regular maintenance and upgrade schedules.[43][44] The aluminium alloy, known as 7X6, has been used in a number of frames in the aircraft’s centre; the alloy’s chemistry, along with environmental conditions, resulted in small cracks propagating into the frames. A decision has been made to exclude the material from MSN70 onwards, an aircraft that will emerge from the production line in 2017. A retrospective process to remove the material from aircraft already in service is now being defined. The swap could take up to seven months.[45]

On 29 May 2016, Airbus chief Tom Enders conceded in an interview published in Bild am Sonntag that some of the "massive problems" dogging the A400M were of the group’s own making. He said "We underestimated the engine problems" and "Airbus had let itself be persuaded by some well-known European leaders into using an engine made by an inexperienced consortium." Furthermore, it had let itself be roped into assuming full responsibility for this new type of turbo-prop engine, he continued. "These are two massive problems which we’re now paying for."[46] On 27 July 2016 Airbus confirmed that it had taken a $1 billion financial charge on the A400M programme, in the light of delivery problems and export market prospects. It noted that “Commercial negotiations with OCCAR and the nations are yet to take place with regard to the revised delivery schedule and its implications.”[47] Tom Enders commented “Industrial efficiency and the step-wise introduction of the A400M’s military functionalities are still lagging behind schedule and remain challenging.” [48]

This will do before next gen lifter like FCA, PAK TA,PAKVTA come out

 

[ezsasa]

Sadly, it is a typically Indian "chalta hai" mentality. I'm just a defence enthusiast but even I could see the crisis emerging many years ago so I have to assume the experts in the IAF/MoD knew full well also and yet did nothing.

And regrettably this thinking is not restricted to the IAF, just look at the IN-pushing for those 4 beastly LPDs and willing to commit $3B to them but have ZERO plans for the helicopters that will fly off them. 100+ 10-12 ton NMRH will be required for just those 4 ships, let alone the rest of the surface fleet that are having to make do with 30+ year old Sea Kings or no helos at all, but the IN has not intiated any such tender. Mark my words, in 4-5 years we will see the media waking up to this mess and asking why these white elephants are being built but there aren't any aircraft to fly off them.

Let's hope Modi can inject some sanity into the clowns at the very top and create a culture of responsible and realistic decison making because right now all 3 services are truly f)cked.

If you take the new strategic partnership with domestic industries into consideration, will you retain the above opinion.

One of the four focus areas announced for Strategic partnerships is helos.

 

[abingdonboy]

We should by about 18-36 more C 130J

One thing I would implore the MoD to think about is to forget about the F-16/Gripen BS and talk to Lockhead Martin about setting up a C-130XJ production line in India, this stripped down C-130J would be an excellent replacement for the AN-32 and would fill the gap now present because of the MTA's death.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2012-02-15/lockheed-martin-promotes-lower-cost-c130xj

TATA already makes the rear tail section of the C-130 and has ties with LM, it should not be too much to ask that they make the entire a/c, especially with the expertise they will gain from making the C-295 in India.

12-18 more Il 476 help our transportation

This will do before next gen lifter like FCA, PAK TA,PAKVTA come out

No thanks, no more Russian deals please, India has been looted enough.

If you take the new strategic partnership with domestic industries into consideration, will you retain the above opinion.

One of the four focus areas announced for Strategic partnerships is helos.

There isn't any clarity on what helo requirement that SP will be for; NMRH or NUH or some other? Besides, the point still stands because of the timelines involved, even if SP is ready this year, the first helo won't land in India before the LPDs they are meant to fly off most likely.

SP will be a boost for sure BUT the IN cannot be sheilded from any blame, when you have $1B USD destroyers going to sea with empty hangers and 30+ year old aged ASW helos, someone has made a huge mistake.

 

[Bahamut]

One thing I would implore the MoD to think about is to forget about the F-16/Gripen BS and talk to Lockhead Martin about setting up a C-130XJ production line in India, this stripped down C-130J would be an excellent replacement for the AN-32 and would fill the gap now present because of the MTA's death.

There are better option like Kawasaki C2 or Embraer KC 390 and they have better option

No thanks, no more Russian deals please, India has been looted enough.

Last I check US FCA was not a priority , they might not even build the prototypes so that leaves IL 106(PAK VTA) and PAK TA both of which are heavy lifter .IL 106 will be close to C 17 while PAK TA will replace AN 124 and it will be supersonic .We can sure buy a few PAK TA to our rapid response plus it can 200 Tons so it makesūsutaing future bases in IOR very easy