Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

pankaj nema

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The most overhyped but underperforming branch of Indian armed forces.

Not to beat the dead horse but we should have absolutely shredded PAF on that morning of February 2019 if IAF is indeed the wonder kid that it is hyped up to be.
In a Limited Conflict There will be always such skewed results

PAF needs to send only 30 odd planes
Anywhere along the 3000 km border where there are a few IAF planes on CAP and claim victory

The Answer lies in Retaliation

Can we send 100 planes in the next few hours and decimate their airbases and Army Installations

In GAGAN Shakti , it was claimed that IAF will decimate PAF with 10 thousand sorties in 3 days


 
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maximus777

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In a Limited Conflict There will be always such skewed results

PAF needs to send only 30 odd planes
Anywhere along the 3000 km border where there are a few IAF planes on CAP and claim victory

The Answer lies in Retaliation

Can we send 100 planes in the next few hours and decimate their airbases and Army Installations

In GAGAN Shakti , it was claimed that IAF will decimate PAF with 10 thousand sorties in 3 days


Realistically we will never get to this fight to the finish WW2 style wars between nuke armed adversaries. It will always be limited skirmishes until MAD comes into picture. So, if we can't neuter them in the limited opportunities that we get, we lose the bragging rights and be spinning our wheels providing justification and convincing the world with only "trust me bro" evidence.
 

pankaj nema

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Realistically we will never get to this fight to the finish WW2 style wars between nuke armed adversaries. It will always be limited skirmishes until MAD comes into picture. So, if we can't neuter them in the limited opportunities that we get, we lose the bragging rights and be spinning our wheels providing justification and convincing the world with only "trust me bro" evidence.
The answer lies in Disproportionate Retaliation

For Example IF

IAF had made contingency plans that we will immediately send 100 planes to attack PAF bases And Before that launch missiles, We could still have recovered Wing Commander Abhinandan

Some people blame his capture for IAF's inaction

In my view , BVR shortcomings ie
R 77 Vs Amraam C 5
and The Lack of SDRs which enabled them to Jam our communications prevented further action

IAF was prepared for All Out War not for such intense limited conflicts


 

mist_consecutive

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The most overhyped but underperforming branch of Indian armed forces.

Not to beat the dead horse but we should have absolutely shredded PAF on that morning of February 2019 if IAF is indeed the wonder kid that it is hyped up to be.
Easy to point fingers and cry. An airforce runs on sophisticated, expensive machinary. Not like Army not where you can hand over an awkward orange rifle, a tin bucket helmet and a handful of bullets and ask to show "josh" and run over a mountain.
Or like Navy whose machinary is not sophisticated & every private shipyard can churn out a bare-minimal floating vessel, strap a BMP-2 gun over it to call it a ship. Heck, Navy has no active, real threats and we don't even know if our 16-VLS destroyer won't be overwhelmed by 116-VLS loaded Chinese ships.

Nope. Fighter jets, esp. 4th gen & above are sophisticated & expensive. See how much pain it is building & perfecting LCA ? But GoI thinks it is in a thrift shop, bargains and buys 36-fucking Rafale. When we ask for transport we buy 11-odd C-17. When we buy heavy-life helicopters we buy only 15.
Heck, even island money Indonesians outbuys us on Rafale.

Dole out Millions of $ of freebies to minorities, farmers, and other useless schemes, but when defending nations, we want to be misers.

Don't blame a goldsmith for shoddy work if you hand him tools of a blacksmith.
 

JBH22

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The most overhyped but underperforming branch of Indian armed forces.

Not to beat the dead horse but we should have absolutely shredded PAF on that morning of February 2019 if IAF is indeed the wonder kid that it is hyped up to be.
Indians are never pro-active, we only work when a$$ is on fire. You will notice glide bombs have gained traction in Ukraine war, but no vision of IAF to develop same. A good article on Russia use of glide bombs

Renaissance of the Bomb - Gliding FABs
As President Putin said, "Our engineers did not ‘reinvent the wheel’ here - now conventional high-explosive aircraft bombs with a capacity of half a ton to one and a half tons are equipped with wings and a guidance head, and this, in fact, has given a second life to this ammunition." And this is the catch: use the old gravity bombs with many thousands available and turn them into formidable assets.
https://bmanalysis.substack.com/p/r...&r=3684kz&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
 

JBH22

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You are wrong.


Prototype we have all sorts of design. But does it translate into mass inventory levels. I highly doubt so.
of note, Russians have a peculiar trait, in all their wars they pull out the best officers/brains to re-evaluate and adjust strategy. This is why in just 2 years, you can see their transformation on the battlefield.
 

mist_consecutive

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Prototype we have all sorts of design. But does it translate into mass inventory levels. I highly doubt so.
of note, Russians have a peculiar trait, in all their wars they pull out the best officers/brains to re-evaluate and adjust strategy. This is why in just 2 years, you can see their transformation on the battlefield.
Not sure about Garuthama/Garuda, but SAAW has got orders back in 2019.

We also have imported/license-made glide bombs like SPICE, Crystal Maze, HAMMER, etc. in unknown numbers for stop-gap.

Russia also started production of kamikaze drones & glide bombs after war started & they took massive losses. We will also be ramping up production if we get into such situation.
 

jai jaganath

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Not sure about Garuthama/Garuda, but SAAW has got orders back in 2019.

We also have imported/license-made glide bombs like SPICE, Crystal Maze, HAMMER, etc. in unknown numbers for stop-gap.

Russia also started production of kamikaze drones & glide bombs after war started & they took massive losses. We will also be ramping up production if we get into such situation.
We have given orders for Guruthuma and Garuda
Remember last year iaf signed a deal for precision munitions and after that I read somewhere those were for guruthuma and Garuda
Anyways quantity is less
Maybe we can ramp up our pgm production during war
 

rohit b3

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If all goes according to plan I will be shaktiman by 2030
Do-able. But again, only if "Everything goes according to plan". For starters , Tejas rate has to be 24/year from next year onwards (Calendar Year 2025 onwards), which is not likely.

But however, Year 2030-31 -

15 Squadrons of Su-30MKI
11 Squadrons of Tejas mk1/A
3 Squadrons of Rafale
3 Squadrons of Mig29
3 Squadrons of Mirage2000
7 Squadrons of Jaguars

Conditions -
1. Have to formally sign contract for 12 Su-30MKI.
2. Have to buy 1 Squadron of Rafale. Setting up capital infra for just 36 Rafales doesn justify the cost anyway.
3. Sign contract for 97 Tejas mk1A
4. 24 Tejas mk1A delivery from 2025 calendar year, which seems unlikely .
 

omaebakabaka

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Russia also started production of kamikaze drones & glide bombs after war started & they took massive losses. We will also be ramping up production if we get into such situation.
Well, we really don't have any record to compare to Russia or put ourselves equal as we are yet to prove we did something like ramp up production during war time to overwhelm enemy. Not that we can't but we haven't so far. Russia has an established record of winning wars and generally gaining territory. During covid, we did ramp up, so there is potential but war is different and lot more difficult. Hope we can....how many massive well coordinated do we conduct in a year to drill and coordinate? We couldn't even take parts of territory that is ours when we created a new chaddi desh.....right thats the mindset we work with. I won't take anything for granted till records are stated as fact or facts are recorded
 

maximus777

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The answer lies in Disproportionate Retaliation

For Example IF

IAF had made contingency plans that we will immediately send 100 planes to attack PAF bases And Before that launch missiles, We could still have recovered Wing Commander Abhinandan

Some people blame his capture for IAF's inaction

In my view , BVR shortcomings ie
R 77 Vs Amraam C 5
and The Lack of SDRs which enabled them to Jam our communications prevented further action

IAF was prepared for All Out War not for such intense limited conflicts


This is just outlandish and don't think anyone seriously considered this option. Hypothetically speaking if IAF had done this and obliterated PAF, Pak would have thrown in the towel and ensured MAD.

PAF/Pak cannot afford an all-out war. It was always going to be a limited skirmish ever since Pak officially got nukes in 1999. So, whose fault is it for being unprepared for 20 years??

If memory serves right, PAF acquired Amraams in 2009-2010 timeframe, i.e. a decade before Nowshera! Again, who is to blame for not having suitable countermeasures in place for 10 years?!?

If we continue to gloat about IAF prowess in spite of these glaring shortcomings, we are no different than the jazba junoon Kool-Aid drinking padosis!!
 

maximus777

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Easy to point fingers and cry. An airforce runs on sophisticated, expensive machinary. Not like Army not where you can hand over an awkward orange rifle, a tin bucket helmet and a handful of bullets and ask to show "josh" and run over a mountain.
Or like Navy whose machinary is not sophisticated & every private shipyard can churn out a bare-minimal floating vessel, strap a BMP-2 gun over it to call it a ship. Heck, Navy has no active, real threats and we don't even know if our 16-VLS destroyer won't be overwhelmed by 116-VLS loaded Chinese ships.

Nope. Fighter jets, esp. 4th gen & above are sophisticated & expensive. See how much pain it is building & perfecting LCA ? But GoI thinks it is in a thrift shop, bargains and buys 36-fucking Rafale. When we ask for transport we buy 11-odd C-17. When we buy heavy-life helicopters we buy only 15.
Heck, even island money Indonesians outbuys us on Rafale.

Dole out Millions of $ of freebies to minorities, farmers, and other useless schemes, but when defending nations, we want to be misers.

Don't blame a goldsmith for shoddy work if you hand him tools of a blacksmith.
Not singling out IAF alone. GOI is equally or more responsible for the current situation including the NDA 2.0 which hasn't done squat with respect to MRFA for 10 years. But when you label yourself as a champion, you need to perform like one. Not try to find excuses.

IA for all its faults and deficiencies recaptured the lost heights during Kargil, tin bucket and orange tool not withstanding!! Cant think of one other army in the world that could have overcome such odds, including some of the vaunted NATO ones. They beat the mujahidin in Kashmir in the 90s who were veterans of the Soviet Afghan war which is no mean feat. We can argue about casualties and equipment all day long, but that's a different discussion.

They are far from perfect, but IA didn't complain about not having the best assault rifles or more guided arty support, they simply overcame adversities and got the job done. Credit where credit is due!
 

Tridev123

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You are wrong.


Don't want to demoralise anybody but the finish and appearance of the Garuthma glide bomb makes one wonder if it was fabricated in the neighbourhood garage by a roadside mechanic.

I know aesthetics is not everything but seriously what impression are the developers giving. Will any prospective foreign buyer even take a second look at the product.

Anyway to give the benefit of the doubt I assume these were the first pictures of the bomb and the designer/developer has refined the manufacturing process and the latest version of the weapon looks at least decent.

Can anybody post better photos of the Garuthma glide bomb. Please don't tell me that it looks like it's initial shoddy version even today. If so, God help us.
 

mist_consecutive

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IA for all its faults and deficiencies recaptured the lost heights during Kargil, tin bucket and orange tool not withstanding!! Cant think of one other army in the world that could have overcome such odds, including some of the vaunted NATO ones. They beat the mujahidin in Kashmir in the 90s who were veterans of the Soviet Afghan war which is no mean feat. We can argue about casualties and equipment all day long, but that's a different discussion.
In the early days of Kargil, human-wave attacks on peaks without artillery or air support costed us multiple lives. Pakistani artillery also costed us many lives as IA didn't have counter-battery radar to detect & reply to incoming Pakistani artillery barrages.

Our tactics has always being a meat-grinder. But if you are not counting casaulties, only objectives, then Balakot and Feb 27th was a grand success for IAF.

Why ? All objectives achieved -
  • Enemy terrorist camped bombed & terrorists killed.
  • We imparted the message, "we can strike, and we will strike".
  • Pakistani counter-offensive the next day repealed.
Yeah so what one Mig-21 got shot down, it was part of the meat-grinder tactics. At least it scuttled the strike package and broke the engagement.

So practically IAF achieved all objectives and it was a mission success, right ?

They are far from perfect, but IA didn't complain about not having the best assault rifles or more guided arty support, they simply overcame adversities and got the job done. Credit where credit is due!
Oh, hell they did. Soldiers complained bitterly about INSAS, about clothes, about personal equipment, about the lack of artillery support (early on).

On the same line, IAF also never complained. They fought with what they had that day. They achieved all objectives.
Yes, post-war introspection is always present (X could have been done better if he had Y), but that's not complaining.
 

ezsasa

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In the early days of Kargil, human-wave attacks on peaks without artillery or air support costed us multiple lives. Pakistani artillery also costed us many lives as IA didn't have counter-battery radar to detect & reply to incoming Pakistani artillery barrages.

Our tactics has always being a meat-grinder. But if you are not counting casaulties, only objectives, then Balakot and Feb 27th was a grand success for IAF.

Why ? All objectives achieved -
  • Enemy terrorist camped bombed & terrorists killed.
  • We imparted the message, "we can strike, and we will strike".
  • Pakistani counter-offensive the next day repealed.
Yeah so what one Mig-21 got shot down, it was part of the meat-grinder tactics. At least it scuttled the strike package and broke the engagement.

So practically IAF achieved all objectives and it was a mission success, right ?



Oh, hell they did. Soldiers complained bitterly about INSAS, about clothes, about personal equipment, about the lack of artillery support (early on).

On the same line, IAF also never complained. They fought with what they had that day. They achieved all objectives.
Yes, post-war introspection is always present (X could have been done better if he had Y), but that's not complaining.
on a side note, using arty as direct fire on mountain peaks is an idea that came in between, and once it was adopted the tide turned, forgot the name of the arty officer who came up with the idea.

this is to say, things that look so obvious in hindsight, may not be so obvious while the action is going on.
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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In the early days of Kargil, human-wave attacks on peaks without artillery or air support costed us multiple lives. Pakistani artillery also costed us many lives as IA didn't have counter-battery radar to detect & reply to incoming Pakistani artillery barrages.

Our tactics has always being a meat-grinder. But if you are not counting casaulties, only objectives, then Balakot and Feb 27th was a grand success for IAF.

Why ? All objectives achieved -
  • Enemy terrorist camped bombed & terrorists killed.
  • We imparted the message, "we can strike, and we will strike".
  • Pakistani counter-offensive the next day repealed.
Yeah so what one Mig-21 got shot down, it was part of the meat-grinder tactics. At least it scuttled the strike package and broke the engagement.

So practically IAF achieved all objectives and it was a mission success, right ?



Oh, hell they did. Soldiers complained bitterly about INSAS, about clothes, about personal equipment, about the lack of artillery support (early on).

On the same line, IAF also never complained. They fought with what they had that day. They achieved all objectives.
Yes, post-war introspection is always present (X could have been done better if he had Y), but that's not complaining.
That way even PAF displayed their ability to strike if they are striked. When they tried to target our HQ, why did GOI chicken out, due to fear of escalations?
 

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