Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars

GGjFHCwbIAARug0.jpeg
 
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mist_consecutive

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Okay, I finally watched recording of Ex Vayushakti. I have also regularly watched previous Ex Vayushakti's (happens every 4 year IIRC), comparing -
  • Bombing runs are absolute spot-on. Even with dumb bombs, every IAF jet dropped them with guaranteed kill. Previously, we used to miss 30-40% of the time using dumb bombs.

  • R-73 is a shame. 80s era Soviet clunky missile design. Tracked beautifully, passed meters beside their target without proximity fuse triggering. This can be a life-death factor in a dogfight remember. You only get one chance.

  • Akash actually did perfectly. However the warhead completely failed to bring down the target. Now whether we consider it a kill (arguing that shrapnel damage would have killed the target) is debatable. MEAT (Banshee) is relatively soft-bodied. A single MICA-IR absolutely blasted through the MEAT. Akash has much bigger warhead.
    I will say Akash warhead design needs to be improved.

  • That Harop screaming down on the target is something out of horror movie. Reminds me of WW2 Stuka dive bombers, absolute psychological nightmare thing.
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Overall pretty good performance. ADs (Samar, Akash) kind of dampened the spirit, but otherwise it was the best Ex Vayushakti till date.
 

skunk works

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Okay, I finally watched recording of Ex Vayushakti. I have also regularly watched previous Ex Vayushakti's (happens every 4 year IIRC), comparing -
  • Bombing runs are absolute spot-on. Even with dumb bombs, every IAF jet dropped them with guaranteed kill. Previously, we used to miss 30-40% of the time using dumb bombs.

  • R-73 is a shame. 80s era Soviet clunky missile design. Tracked beautifully, passed meters beside their target without proximity fuse triggering. This can be a life-death factor in a dogfight remember. You only get one chance.

  • Akash actually did perfectly. However the warhead completely failed to bring down the target. Now whether we consider it a kill (arguing that shrapnel damage would have killed the target) is debatable. MEAT (Banshee) is relatively soft-bodied. A single MICA-IR absolutely blasted through the MEAT. Akash has much bigger warhead.
    I will say Akash warhead design needs to be improved.

  • That Harop screaming down on the target is something out of horror movie. Reminds me of WW2 Stuka dive bombers, absolute psychological nightmare thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall pretty good performance. ADs (Samar, Akash) kind of dampened the spirit, but otherwise it was the best Ex Vayushakti till date.
My favorite moment was the Rafale shooting down a target with MICA, loved how the camera followed the missile and you could see the motor burn out.

Cringe moments:
>Both R73s miss- the one shot from LCA and one from SAMAR.
>commentator says 'vro it passed very close vro if it had proximity fusing it would have totally killed vro'

B*TCH IT HAD PROXIMITY FUSING IT MISSED COME AROUND AND TAKE ANOTHER SHOT

>lady commentator starts shayari
 

mist_consecutive

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My favorite moment was the Rafale shooting down a target with MICA, loved how the camera followed the missile and you could see the motor burn out.

Cringe moments:
>Both R73s miss- the one shot from LCA and one from SAMAR.
>commentator says 'vro it passed very close vro if it had proximity fusing it would have totally killed vro'

B*TCH IT HAD PROXIMITY FUSING IT MISSED COME AROUND AND TAKE ANOTHER SHOT

>lady commentator starts shayari
Yeah that proximity fuse argument is total bullshit. MEAT (Banshee/Abhyas) is pretty big to trigger proximity fuse.



The fuse straight up failed or the radio frequency of the proximity fuse only responds to metallic objects. Anyway its pretty ancient to modern standards.
 

skunk works

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Yeah that proximity fuse argument is total bullshit. MEAT (Banshee/Abhyas) is pretty big to trigger proximity fuse.



The fuse straight up failed or the radio frequency of the proximity fuse only responds to metallic objects. Anyway its pretty ancient to modern standards.
They suicide drone sounded like the judgement of God coming down. Maybe what the trumpets of Jericho sounded like on a Stuka. Recommend weaponphiles to listen, timestamp 1:18:05.

Honorary mentions:
>Rafale sonic boom to open the show. Looks like someone has been watching airshow videos from the US.
>LUH PRACHAND, gun sounds and impact was awesome in the Night.
>C130 short takeoff was impressive.
 

porky_kicker

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Yeah that proximity fuse argument is total bullshit. MEAT (Banshee/Abhyas) is pretty big to trigger proximity fuse.



The fuse straight up failed or the radio frequency of the proximity fuse only responds to metallic objects. Anyway its pretty ancient to modern standards.
it isnt

given a complex interaction of 2 objects in space , however simple it might look like will result in rare (low popability but still probable) orientations where the short burst of em waves from PF might miss target or might get reflected away (from PF reciever) or might not get reflected at all or might get attenuated or might result in low strength return or might get returned with high noise so the the reciever end of PF fails thus ultimately failing to trigger warhead

r73 failed bec of old gen PF

akash PF worked perfectly , infact one target broke up into 2 if you ask me, but bec of distance and visibility , damage assesement is a matter of opinion

there are lot of research papers on PF you can consult them , if you so wish

imo akash interception was perfect, warhead detonated on cross over . a classic cross over interception
 
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Tridev123

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An interesting situation.
What is our inventory of R73 missiles.
How many have been modified for the Surface to Air role as part of Project SAMAR.
What is the residual technical life of the remaining stock of R73 missiles.

If the numbers are very substantial and the SAMAR system is a cost effective way to engage certain classes of aerial threats then why not carry out an Mid Life Upgrade of the R73 missiles.

Keeping the aerodynamics and the propulsion system unchanged why not change the electronics and even the seekers. Especially change the proximity fuse system. We would need the source code. But I believe the Russians will be open to the idea considering their present economic condition and geopolitical situation. The Ukraine war is a big weight hanging on their necks.

Might need to pay the Russian Government an fee for the technology sharing. But I believe that the cost will not be obscene.

I believe we have the technological capability to carry out the task.
The experience that we have gained while developing the Astra series and other types of SAM's and AAM's will be quite sufficient to succeed in this endeavour.


I am reminded of how we upgraded the vintage Schilka Air Defense Artillery system.

Of course, if the numbers are too low and those missiles are too old.
Just dump them.

Everything depends on the cost and the technical feasibility.
 

mist_consecutive

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it isnt

given a complex interaction of 2 objects in space , however simple it might look like will result in rare (low popability but still probable) orientations where the short burst of em waves from PF might miss target or might get reflected away (from PF reciever) or might not get reflected at all or might get attenuated or might result in low strength return or might get returned with high noise so the the reciever end of PF fails thus ultimately failing to trigger warhead

r73 failed bec of old gen PF
Old gen or faulty, we won't know. We have seen in previous Ex Vayushakti the same thing (R-73 missing) 50% of the time.

Anyway Banshee/Abhyas composition & size is like that of a Kamikaze/Loitering munition like Shahed or H-4 SOW which will be used by our enemies in the war. R-73 will likely miss them in such scenario as well.

Point is R73 is obsolete and must be replaced by NGCCM fleet-wise.

akash PF worked perfectly , infact one target broke up into 2 if you ask me, but bec of distance and visibility , damage assesement is a matter of opinion

there are lot of research papers on PF you can consult them , if you so wish

imo akash interception was perfect, warhead detonated on cross over . a classic cross over interception
I want to believe what you said & brush it under the carpet. But that will not be doing justice to Akash.

Size of MICA IR Warhead - 12 Kg (Absolutely shreds the Banshee)
Size of R73 Warhead - 7.4 Kg (Still destroys it, from SAMAR Vayushakti practice & previously)
Size of Akash Warhead - Whopping 60 Kgs (Cannot destroy target drone)

See the problem ?
 

DukeDoode

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If IAF wants MTA to take the IL-76's role too, only the Atlas qualifies.
View attachment 242421
C-390 already has a civil certification and reportedly has a stretched military\civilian design in the pipeline. If the mahindras can pull this off with sufficient TOT, they will have a military order for 100+ planes including for the tanker version. Lets face it the new tanker competition for A-330 or KC-46 will meet the same fate as previous tanker competitions. We don't need such huge capacity tanker aircraft to fly intercontinental missions. KC-390 can fulfil all of IAF tanker missions. A civilian version of C-390 for domestic air travel will also be quite useful for the Indian domestic market and aligns with the PM's vision of having Airbus or Boeing manufacture their planes in India. Since C-390 uses the same engine as old A-320, it will be cost efficient and reliable for operators to switch to C-390 civilian version as well.
 

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