Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[skunk works]

One trick pony.
IAF jernails be like:

Bhai strategic delivery?
"Bhramos on Su-30"
Anti-ship?
"Bhramos on Mig-29"
Close air support?
"Bhramos. On. Mi-35."
Rescue and medevac?
"Bhramos on Mi-17."
Air defence?
"Bhramos on Mig-21. "
Maybe we should not be entirely dependent on one country for our offensive capability?
"Hmmmm good point. Bhramos on Mirage-2000."

 

[binayak95]

Sukhoi Upgrade Poised For Takeoff -

With Russia badly hit by western sanctions, HAL to develop new avionics for the fighters Prasun K. Sengupta The Indian

forceindia.net

Interestingly, to this day, Indian Migs or Sukhois do not have MAWS!

“….the evident criminal negligence displayed by the MoD, DRDO and DARE since the previous decade has only ensured that the IAF’s MiG-29UPG and Su-30MKI fleets remain devoid of DC-MAWS fitments to this day.”

A prime example of downsides of hodgepodge integration of components without the ability. SAAB MAWS-300 is certified on Su-30 series since 2008. Good read.

MiG29UPGs have MAWS
A pretty good one as well. The entire D29 EW suite is quite capable.
The SU30s dont have a modern EW anything though, apart from ASPJs.

 

[Wisemarko]

MiG29UPGs have MAWS
A pretty good one as well. The entire D29 EW suite is quite capable.
The SU30s dont have a modern EW anything though, apart from ASPJs.

You are mixing DC-MAWS with EW. Both are very different. Please read the article.

“D-29 is an integrated EW system for Radar warning and jamming that encompasses RWR, ECM, ESM functions and utilizes state-of-the-art active phased arrays for selectively jamming the multiple threat radars.” It does not have MAWS.
- Source https://www.drdo.gov.in/development-d-29-system-internal-ew-system-mig-29-upgrade-aircraft

 

[binayak95]

You are mixing DC-MAWS with EW. Both are very different. Please read the article.

“D-29 is an integrated EW system for Radar warning and jamming that encompasses RWR, ECM, ESM functions and utilizes state-of-the-art active phased arrays for selectively jamming the multiple threat radars.” It does not have MAWS.
- Source https://www.drdo.gov.in/development-d-29-system-internal-ew-system-mig-29-upgrade-aircraft

It has MAWS. Have seen the modules myself.
MAWS is part and parcel of your EW defensive suite.

 

[Wisemarko]

It has MAWS. Have seen the modules myself.
MAWS is part and parcel of your EW defensive suite.

Sounds like DRDO, the maker of D-29 is wrong about its own system not having MAWS. The author of the first article is also wrong, since you have “seen it yourself” and your expertise on the topic trumps theirs.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

You are mixing DC-MAWS with EW. Both are very different. Please read the article.

“D-29 is an integrated EW system for Radar warning and jamming that encompasses RWR, ECM, ESM functions and utilizes state-of-the-art active phased arrays for selectively jamming the multiple threat radars.” It does not have MAWS.
- Source https://www.drdo.gov.in/development-d-29-system-internal-ew-system-mig-29-upgrade-aircraft

You are confusing DC MAWS with MAWS. EVen if we assume they dont have dedicated MAWS, they still have a backup MAWS.

Russian RWR has a dual role as a MAWS, you can tell the direction, altitude, attitude, and signal strength of incoming missile.

 

[DumbPilot]

You are confusing DC MAWS with MAWS

Russian RWR has a dual role as a MAWS, you can tell the direction, altitude, attitude, and signal strength of incoming missile.

MAWS provides warnings against IR/UV(for SA-16 Igla) threats. The RWR cannot do that("Radar" warning receiver)

 

[Wisemarko]

You are confusing DC MAWS with MAWS

Russian RWR has a dual role as a MAWS, you can tell the direction, altitude, attitude, and signal strength of incoming missile.

How does a heat seeking missile have any signal on RWR. Agree if it is an active radar guided missile like AMRAAM, RWR will go off in terminal phase. However, RWR should be already going off because you have a primary FCR lock.

 

[DumbPilot]

How does a heat seeking missile have any signal on RWR. Agree if it is an active radar guided missile like AMRAAM, RWR will go off in terminal phase. However, RWR should be already going off because you have a primary FCR lock.

Even without a lock(sidelobe and all). I've talked with an A-10 pilot and he says that RWR is essentially a clutter of noise, though the new ones are better at filtering that.


you can hear how much noise this RWR has. Though this is slightly old from the 90s, so undoubtedly technology has got better

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

MAWS provides warnings against IR/UV(for SA-16 Igla) threats. The RWR cannot do that("Radar" warning receiver)

Fair enough. Though MANPADS present much less of a threat to fixed wing fighters.

 

[DumbPilot]

Fair enough. Though MANPADS present much less of a threat to fixed wing fighters.

I'd say it depends on the mission. Jaguars are at a much more disadvantage from MANPAD/SHORAD than say Su-30s, because Jaguars are doing the major nap of the earth flying

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Even without a lock(sidelobe and all). I've talked with an A-10 pilot and he says that RWR is essentially a clutter of noise, though the new ones are better at filtering that.

you can hear how much noise this RWR has. Though this is slightly old from the 90s, so undoubtedly technology has got better

Importantly, thats not the type (the type that just goes on and off) of RWR the russians use.

Russian RWR looks like this

Western ones are more "advanced" in the sense that they process the data and give an estimate, the Russian one gives raw data.
The yellow thing going around is signal strength. Green is direction. It also indicates altitude, and whether the lock is from the surface or airborne. You can check and monitor that, which will let you know if its from a missile lock, or radar lock, or just clutter. Also better for knowing when you've defeated a missile.

MAWS is good to have, just that not having it isnt catastrophic.

 

[Wisemarko]

Fair enough. Though MANPADS present much less of a threat to fixed wing fighters.

It’s not just MANPADS, semi active radar guided missiles like AIM-7, R-27, IR guided Mica-IR, Sidewinder, python, ASRAAM all will not be “seen” on RWR.
Against modern optronics (IRST) coupled with longer ranged IR guided missiles, RWR is useless and DC-MAWS is a must have. That is quite catastrophic for any Air Force that cares about the pilot.

 

[DumbPilot]

It’s not just MANPADS, semi active radar guided missiles like AIM-7, R-27, IR guided Mica-IR, Sidewinder, python, ASRAAM all will not be “seen” on RWR.
Against modern optronics (IRST) coupled with longer ranged IR guided missiles, RWR is useless and DC-MAWS is a must have. That is quite catastrophic for any Air Force that cares about the pilot.

False for those in bold. The AIM-7/R-27 series require a CW lock from the fighter that fired them because they hone in onto reflections of those fighter radar signals. This means the power output of those fighter radars are increased and the frequency is also modulated - which can be easily detected as a launch.

 

[johnj]

It has MAWS. Have seen the modules myself.
MAWS is part and parcel of your EW defensive suite.

What kind of MAWS ?

 

[DumbPilot]

The face when you get better pics of your country's planes from the magazine of another country

 

[binayak95]

View attachment 208610View attachment 208611

The face when you get better pics of your country's planes from the magazine of another country

Tbh Vayu magazine's photos are epic too

 

[DumbPilot]

Tbh Vayu magazine's photos are epic too

This photo of theirs is still my favorite:

Cope India 2005 I believe

 

[binayak95]

This photo of theirs is still my favorite:
View attachment 208618

Cope India 2005 I believe

Aye. F16 getting gunned by Su30K

 

[MirageBlue]

It’s not just MANPADS, semi active radar guided missiles like AIM-7, R-27, IR guided Mica-IR, Sidewinder, python, ASRAAM all will not be “seen” on RWR.
Against modern optronics (IRST) coupled with longer ranged IR guided missiles, RWR is useless and DC-MAWS is a must have. That is quite catastrophic for any Air Force that cares about the pilot.

Semi active missiles like the R-27 or AIM-7 will be spotted by the RWR because they need radar illumination from their parent fighter to be able to even guide themselves. If the parent fighter paints the target fighter with it's radar, the target fighter's RWR should be able to detect that.