Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[ezsasa]

4 years for 16 aircrafts

Isn't it too much for the 16 aircrafts as well as for the entire order? Or is such a time frame normal for such transport aircrafts?

was quoting for PIB press release.

check what’s the time frame for other orders in the past.

 

[werewolf]

Well, frankly one hurdle down.

But, the problem is that we need replacement of Il-76/78s in next few years and there simply isn't a suitable candidate for the role except another Russian IL-476. We missed the bus when both MoD and IAF bungled the C-17 procurement!

What could possibly be the replacements?

A-400 IMO is little too small for the role. But, can we trust IL-476 - another Russian plane given the abysmal service record of it with regard to availability? I know spares won't be a problem for this one. Still, how reliable can it be?

we can take a look at kawasaki C2

 

[fire starter]

 

[jackprince]

we can take a look at kawasaki C2

A400M is better than Kawasaki C2 - more versatile, more in production and chances of future development and variants. C2 isn't in the same league as IL-76/78.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Well, frankly one hurdle down.

But, the problem is that we need replacement of Il-76/78s in next few years and there simply isn't a suitable candidate for the role except another Russian IL-476. We missed the bus when both MoD and IAF bungled the C-17 procurement!

What could possibly be the replacements?

A-400 IMO is little too small for the role. But, can we trust IL-476 - another Russian plane given the abysmal service record of it with regard to availability? I know spares won't be a problem for this one. Still, how reliable can it be?

One at a time bro. It took 11 years for this one, 12 years before MMRCA was cancelled and downgraded to 36 .

Frankly if they manage to build 100+ of these units in India over the course of time, it would be worth it.

 

[abingdonboy]

Le bhai




Anyways, C-295 exceeds the capability of AVRO 748 by more than 3 times... almost an equivalent of AN-32

Another good news of the day

1) when will contract actually be signed?

2) they only cleared the 56 for the IAF what about the 6 MMMA for the ICG?

Regarding the AN-32, C295 is a decent replacement for it, I’m sure they’ll be ordering more then 56 to take over from the more aged AN-32s but the IAF seems insistent on getting a turbofan replacement so god knows where this will end.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

4 years for 16 aircrafts

Isn't it too much for the 16 aircrafts as well as for the entire order? Or is such a time frame normal for such transport aircrafts?

Yea. Not sure if there is any active production ongoing. If not, they have to restart and it takes sometime. Plus Airbus engineers have to be in India to train Tatas as well. The total deal is 56 over 10 years. From the 4year delivery would start implying atleast 10 per year starting from 2025-26.

 

[Brood Father]

ChingChong Ale Folce stlongest.

It is even worth debating?

Let me talk about the conclusion, the abilities of the two are similar,
Turkey
240 F16 block52
40 F4Es (this one has been upgraded and can use aim120)
4 E737 early warning aircraft,
7 KC135 tankers
India
254 su30mki
40 M2000
50 mig29
There are a lot more, mig21
mig29 is basically useless, still at the level of 1980s, not upgraded
su30mki I don’t think I can beat F16block52, mainly because of radar and R77 issues.
4 A50
6 IL 78
For the Rafale fighter, we think the performance is similar to that of F16V.

Here is a simpler comparison

Turkey .. Hawai Mullah ,
India ..Kufur Baniya

Hawai Mullah «««« kufur Baniya

 

[abingdonboy]

The issue of transport aircrafts cannot be brushed under the carpet anymore by the goverment.

GoI is waking up now. IAF lacks a dedicated fleet of transport aircrafts. GoI just witnessed the role of transport aircrafts during the current Afghanistan fiasco.

What does this even mean? Outside of the UNSC P5 india has the largest strategic airlift capability on the planet

Issues:
AN-32s are very outdated
Too few C17s ordered
IL-76s still waiting for their MLU

Let me talk about the conclusion, the abilities of the two are similar,
Turkey
240 F16 block52
40 F4Es (this one has been upgraded and can use aim120)
4 E737 early warning aircraft,
7 KC135 tankers
India
254 su30mki
40 M2000
50 mig29
There are a lot more, mig21
mig29 is basically useless, still at the level of 1980s, not upgraded
su30mki I don’t think I can beat F16block52, mainly because of radar and R77 issues.
4 A50
6 IL 78
For the Rafale fighter, we think the performance is similar to that of F16V.

IAF is superior qualitatively and quantitatively and is one of the few air forces to have actually waged multiple air campaigns in foreign skies. It’s not even funny to compare the TuAF to the IAF

 

[werewolf]

A400M is better than Kawasaki C2 - more versatile, more in production and chances of future development and variants. C2 isn't in the same league as IL-76/78.

Then if the requirement arises most probably they will go for the IL 476 i suppose. Not taking a chance to pissoff the ruskies. Apparently the Biho program has been stalled because of them only.

 

[abingdonboy]

Well, frankly one hurdle down.

But, the problem is that we need replacement of Il-76/78s in next few years and there simply isn't a suitable candidate for the role except another Russian IL-476. We missed the bus when both MoD and IAF bungled the C-17 procurement!

What could possibly be the replacements?

A-400 IMO is little too small for the role. But, can we trust IL-476 - another Russian plane given the abysmal service record of it with regard to availability? I know spares won't be a problem for this one. Still, how reliable can it be?

the ~20 or so IL-76/78 will be given a deep upgrade to keep them flying another 15-20 years. This will buy the IAF time to wait and see what USAF does about replacing their C-17s, there was some talk of reopening the line as much of their C-17 fleet has been burned out thanks to the WoT and they need replacements much sooner than they had imagined (30-40 years)

Wouldn’t be a bad idea to order another 6-12 C-130J-30s for the utility role as in some cases the C-17 is being used where a C-130J could do the job.

4 years for 16 aircrafts

Isn't it too much for the 16 aircrafts as well as for the entire order? Or is such a time frame normal for such transport aircrafts?

4 years for all 16 to be handed over. I imagine the first will be handed over within 3 years

can’t imagine them coming much sooner as training and infrastructure creation has to take place

will be interesting to learn the production timelines in India by TASL.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

4 years for 16 aircrafts

Isn't it too much for the 16 aircrafts as well as for the entire order? Or is such a time frame normal for such transport aircrafts?

Ek baat aaplog nahi samajhte... it's not just about the rate at which aircraft is manufactured... it's also
about the rate at which our airforce is ready to accept the aircraft(which is subject to creation of ground infra & training of air & ground crew)

In case of Rafale... IAF put the cap at 14 aircraft a year starting from October 2019.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Then if the requirement arises most probably they will go for the IL 476 i suppose. Not taking a chance to pissoff the ruskies. Apparently the Biho program has been stalled because of them only.

Biho has been stalled because Biho is an old platform (Doppler FCR). Apparently there was something known as a SPAD-GMS which was being designed in India for the SPAAG role. Lets hope we see a concept next year at DefExpo.

 

[abingdonboy]

One at a time bro. It took 11 years for this one, 12 years before MMRCA was cancelled and downgraded to 36 .

Frankly if they manage to build 100+ of these units in India over the course of time, it would be worth it.

Think history has shown that once something is in production in India it gets jumped on.

already the ICG wants 6 MMMA based on the platform initially

IAF will definitely be ordering more of them

IN has an outstanding requirement for a ‘medium’ MPA- basically the MMMA

There was an open requirement for a C27J/C295 class aircraft from the CAPFs also


If TASL are smart they’ll aggressively market the civil variant to take advantage of the UDAN scheme. Lots of new airports coming up and plenty of them in remote airstrips

and where India leads others follow- can see a few others in the region taking a few from the TASL-Airbus JV

 

[werewolf]

Biho has been stalled because Biho is an old platform (Doppler FCR). Apparently there was something known as a SPAD-GMS which was being designed in India for the SPAAG role. Lets hope we see a concept next year at DefExpo.

Sorry for some off topic discussion . but there was some news saying rheinmetall would invest in manufacturing AAD guns in UP. Has that gone through?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Think history has shown that once something is in production in India it gets jumped on.

already the ICG wants 6 MMMA based on the platform initially

IAF will definitely be ordering more of them

IN has an outstanding requirement for a ‘medium’ MPA- basically the MMMA

There was an open requirement for a C27J/C295 class aircraft from the CAPFs also


If TASL are smart they’ll aggressively market the civil variant to take advantage of the UDAN scheme. Lots of new airports coming up and plenty of them in remote airstrips

and where India leads others follow- can see a few others in the region taking a few from the TASL-Airbus JV

Hopefully it will help us move on from Dorniers. I mean Dornier is a good platform but is too small. And HAL could have bought the whole line and to this day it's not 100% indigenous sadly. Hopefully Tata will learn and at some point when Airbus starts concentrating on its successor projects can buy the rights of this platform, turn to civil, use different versions and create MTA ecosystem

 

[abingdonboy]

So apparently the Bangladesh army already has ordered 1 C295W, if they order anymore it can come from the Indian JV and as this deal includes local MRO for Indian C295s, it can easily be the regional MRO hub

DRDO seems to love the Airbus family (A330 for AWACS(I), A319 for their new FTB, A319/20 for NETRA Mk.2 etc) and is happy to work with them over any other OEM so I’m sure they will think up many other roles for it once it’s made in India, already they specifically identified the C295 for their MMMA project and as an alternative for the EMB-145 for NETRA

 

[abingdonboy]

Hopefully it will help us move on from Dorniers. I mean Dornier is a good platform but is too small. And HAL could have bought the whole line and to this day it's not 100% indigenous sadly. Hopefully Tata will learn and at some point when Airbus starts concentrating on its successor projects can buy the rights of this platform, turn to civil, use different versions and create MTA ecosystem

I can see the C295 taking over from the DO228 in most of its current military (and limited civilian) applications in India. It has seemed like for a while the Indian users bought the DO228 because they didn’t really have an other choice and just needed something, that changes now.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Sorry for some off topic discussion . but there was some news saying rheinmetall would invest in manufacturing AAD guns in UP. Has that gone through?

No idea. I thought Rhinemetall was blacklisted.