Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Haldiram]

Because it's not easy at all - we are only NOW getting the Astra into service and that is a BVR radar-guided missile.

Close Combat Missiles (IR primarily) are much more complex. Especially their motors and the need to be able to maneuver, and lead the target at supersonic speeds.

Is there potential risk of the missiles being bugged and tracked to reveal the location of our ammo dump or the movement of the plane?

 

[binayak95]

Is there potential risk of the missiles being bugged and tracked to reveal the location of our ammo dump or the movement of the plane?

ehh what? A bit too paranoia no?

Though, when AFNET was being set up (the contract was awarded to CISCO or was it SIEMENS?) the modems and routers were made in Chinkland (surprise surprise) and naturally IAF found out in preinstallation trials.

the company was shocked, and the manufacturing unit shifted to India. (Yes, the contract was that big)

 

[binayak95]

If it is found that the aircraft crashed because of faulty avionics ( and damn straight it will be so as both the pilots were Sq. Leaders), not only the technicians and the scientists involved should be prosecuted, HAL itself should be dissolved. I have been a long time supporter of HAL, but such dereliction cannot be overlooked. No wonder IAF does not want to have anything to do with HAL!

Fuck! HAL alone has been doing all the work for China and Pakistan.

The fuckers are now trying to derail the c295 deal.

Idiots cannot even manufacture simple stuff like helicopter's blades after full TOT.

Not just Squadron leaders bruh, Test Pilots, fucking cream of the best of the IAF.

HAL ka chief ko firing squad ke saamne khada karo.
Fuckers want Rafales. ASSHOLES

 

[Haldiram]

ehh what? A bit too paranoia no?

Though, when AFNET was being set up (the contract was awarded to CISCO or was it SIEMENS?) the modems and routers were made in Chinkland (surprise surprise) and naturally IAF found out in preinstallation trials.

the company was shocked, and the manufacturing unit shifted to India. (Yes, the contract was that big)

Dem niggas switched of GPS during Kargil war, remember?

Hamid Gul was mentioning in a YT video that during cold war one of their missiles exploded in the storehouse and took the whole storehouse. Later they found that someone had bugged it. They kept that option open, just in case they wanted to disarm Pakistan suddenly. If they're placing ELINT stations in Nepal to keep track on us, then bugging a missile seems kinda like a low hanging fruit. Even today, as per a US law, they board our INS Jalashwa amphibious ship once a year, which they had sold us. The contract says that a US team has to certify, every year, that their weapon is being used in accordance with their interests.

 

[binayak95]

Dem niggas switched of GPS during Kargil war, remember?

Hamid Gul was mentioning in a YT video that during cold war one of their missiles exploded in the storehouse and took the whole storehouse. Later they found that someone had bugged it. They kept that option open, just in case they found that Pakistan shouldn't be using em anymore. If they're placing ELINT stations in Nepal to keep track on us, then bugging a missile seems kinda low hanging fruit. Even today, as per a US law, they board our INS Jalashwa amphibious ship once a year, which they had sold us. The contract says that a US team has to certify, every year, that their weapon is being used in accordance with their interests.

Wrong on several counts.

ELINT stations in Nepal are joint CIA-RAW. Yes, confirmed.

Jalashwa ka boarding first 2 years ke baad band hogayi. IN removed all US equipment with BEL made ones. And after COMCASA, even this is no longer needed.

 

[binayak95]

Wrong on several counts.

ELINT stations in Nepal are joint CIA-RAW. Yes, confirmed.

Jalashwa ka boarding first 2 years ke baad band hogayi. IN removed all US equipment with BEL made ones. And after COMCASA, even this is no longer needed.

Lemme add some more info.

there is a Maritime Domain Awareness centre in New Delhi.

Information flows into this centre from US, France, Australian, Japanese, Indian and any other NATO assets in the IOR. The IN assesses it (assisted by staff officers from aforementioned 5 nations ) and then dispatches said assessment to the same.

This is not the 90s.

 

[captscooby81]

Fighting abilities affected’: IAF chief on force’s long association with HAL
The air chief was delivering the 10th ‘Jumbo’ Majumdar International Conference at the Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS) in New Delhi and was responding to criticism about the IAF’s alleged dislike for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, the indigenous fighter made by HAL.

The Indian Air Force’s efforts to support the state-owned aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has affected its fighting capabilities, Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa said on Friday.

IAF has only cooperated with HAL; “as a service; we have made concessions for HAL, but will the enemy make any concession for us when we face them in battle?” he questioned.

The air chief was delivering the 10th ‘Jumbo’ Majumdar International Conference at the Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS) in New Delhi and was responding to criticism about the IAF’s alleged dislike for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, the indigenous fighter made by HAL.

“IAF has not shifted any goal posts as alleged,” ACM Dhanoa said countering allegations that developments of the Tejas fighter suffered because the IAF changed specifications and requirements frequently. On the contrary, the IAF chief said, “We have maintained the Air Staff Quality Requirements (ASQR or specifications) of the first 20 LCA Mk-I at standards issued in 1985.” And even then HAL has been able to manufacture only “10 fighters”, he added.

A HAL spokesperson declined comment on the air chief’s comments which come at a time when the state-owned aircraft maker is in financial distress of some sort and also when it is in the middle of the controversy surrounding the government’s Rafale fighter deal.

A HAL official who spoke on condition of anonymity asked: “Doesn’t IAF allow concessions and modifications to foreign vendors? Concessions are also given to Defence Research Development Organisation and the Aeronautical Development Agency. Why is HAL being singled out?”

Putting HAL on the mat, ACMl Dhanoa said upgrading of one squadron of Jaguar deep strike bombers, nearly two squadrons of Su-30MKi, India’s mainstay fighters, and one squadron of Mirage-2000, a multi-role fighter , all work being done by the state-owned firm, was far behind schedule. “Additional production of Su-30 is delayed by over two years and LCA production commitment (has been delayed) by over six years,” he added.

In addition, the air chief said in its quest for indigenisation, IAF has lost as many as 17 personnel including test pilots and engineers in air accidents. These accidents happened when “testing and evaluation” of the indigenous platforms such as Marut fighters and Kiran trainers.

The National Democratic Alliance’s deal to buy 36 Rafale fighters in a government to government deal from France has become controversial. It replaces a deal by the previous government to buy 126 aircraft of which 108 were to be assembled in India by HAL. The government has said the old deal wasn’t viable. The opposition Congress and others have claimed the new deal is costlier than the old one, that due process wasn’t followed, and that the new deal was done to benefit Reliance Defence, an offset partner of Rafale maker Dassault. Reliance, Dassault and the government have denied this. The government has also said the prices are not comparable because the new deal also includes India-specific customisation and weapons. The Supreme Court recently said it believes due process was followed in the deal and that it wouldn’t go into the pricing of the deal, effectively giving the government a clean chit.

However, the controversy continues to rage on. In the course of this, HAL’s ability to manufacture aircraft has also been called into question.

The IAF chief also said that the force can’t cut down either expenditure or its workforce anymore. “The entire salary bill of the IAF is Rs.16621 crores, while our capital expenditure is Rs 35407 crores. We need Rs 8870 crores for fuel and maintenance.” He added: “There is no way we can cut our manpower to pay for our capital acquisitions.”

Explaining the high cost of operations, the IAF chief explained: “Manning of a Su-30 squadron is nearly twice that of a MiG-21 squadron and the cost of per hour operation is 3.5 times higher.”

 

[Filtercoffee]

EXCLUSIVE: IAF Arming Su-30s With ASRAAMs, May Standardise Missile Across Fleet
Shiv AroorJan 31 2019 11 28 am

In an ambitious, unprecedented move, the Indian Air Force is currently in the final stages of a move that could ruffle feathers in Russia — mating a British missile system with its Russian-origin Su-30 MKI fighters, something it has never done before. Top IAF sources tell Livefist that a pair of HAL-built Su-30 MKI jets have undergone requisite software modifications to deploy the MBDA ASRAAM heat-seeking close combat air-to-air missile. What the IAF intends to do is fully replace the Su-30 MKI’s current close combat missile — the Russian-built Vympel R-73 — with the ASRAAM in phases.

For a service that has rarely standardised equipment across its diverse fleet of Russian and European aircraft, the IAF’s intentions with the ASRAAM stem from its experience with the successful recent integration of the missile system with its Jaguar deep penetration strike jets. Part of a £250 million IAF contract with MBDA UK in July 2014, the ASRAAM-armed Jaguars are to be declared operationally ready this year. IAF sources said the first ASRAAM-armed Su-30s would be declared ready around the same time, and will make use of the same testing cycle.

The Indian government’s National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), an outfit under the Ministry of Science and Technology, was tasked with proving the stability of the ASRAAM on the Su-30 airframe at its Bengaluru wind-tunnels. NAL sources confirm to Livefist that flutter analysis and safety of flight tests were conducted last year. With carriage flight trials underway, guided test-firings will likely take place this summer.

MBDA Photo / RAF Jaguar

If the IAF has its way, the ASRAAM could have a longer flight path in Indian service. As Livefist reported in 2017, the ASRAAM is under consideration as a weapon system on the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, while the IAF has officially opened discussions on arming its Hawk trainers with the ASRAAM and Brimstone weapon system. If the IAF is looking beyond the R-73 on the Su-30 MKI, then it stands to reason that it could do the same on its recently upgraded Russian MiG-29 fighter fleet. But IAF sources confirm that the Su-30 MKI fleet is a priority program for the ASRAAM integration.

Having to navigate diplomatic and strategic sensitivities with Russia could be precisely why the IAF has pursued the ASRAAM integration as quietly as possible, though the steady stream of give and take between Moscow and Delhi could accommodate a move that would, in normal course, be deeply irksome to Russia.

On the other hand, as Livefist reported earlier this month, the IAF is looking to expand its Su-30 fleet with a proposal to build 40 more jets under license at HAL’s Nashik facility. Livefist can now confirm that the Indian government has formally requested Russia to extend the production license, a requirement before deciding on the additional numbers it will choose to build.

The IAF chose the ASRAAM in 2013 after a contest that involved the Israeli Python, the German Diehl IRIS-T and American Raytheon AIM-9X Sidewinder. While India is well into testing its indigenous beyond visual range air-to-air Astra missile, its weapons program doesn’t include a close combat air-to-air missile, compelling it to depend on imported systems through its history. Comparable past systems include Matra Magic II and MICA IR on its Mirage 2000 fleet.

The move to attempt a standardisation of the ASRAAM across its combat aircraft fleet could be helped along by a proposal from the missile’s maker, MBDA, which has proposed to shift final assembly of the weapon system from Bolton in the United Kingdom to the facilities of India’s state-owned missile house Bharat Dynamics Ltd in Hyderabad as part of offsets obligations across contracts.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ams-may-standardise-missile-across-fleet.html

This is all well and good, why do we need the manufacturing facility here in India? Again slowly become gulams? If the system originate from mainland, that is Asia, Europe and possibly Africa it will fit in, over seas is not good, it is a logistical nightmare. A clone or a recent uninitiated project is perfect. Remember it takes time to train folk to make 'things' for some. The advanced Hawk specially made for ground attack and maybe dogfighting is a great example, quick solution and bad aerodynamics. Then think about extending airframe parameters, it wastes years, we cannot overtly wait. I just hope Tejas is'nt restricted; we are not a world factory, nor are our friends.

 

[Defcon 1]

HAL under accountability cloud after Mirage crash

 

[Defcon 1]

Instead of grief & alarm, Indian politicians are foolishly celebrating failures of HAL
It was a measure of India’s dismal political discourse that the dominant sentiment regarding the recent Mirage accident in Bengaluru was one of satisfaction at the failures of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (in the context of the Rahul Gandhi-Narendra Modi-Rafale feud) rather than of grief at the loss of two brave young test pilots of the Indian Air Force.

Obviously there is little realisation that today, a vast majority of the aircraft and helicopters operated by our armed forces, as well as their engines and ancillaries, are produced, overhauled and supported by different divisions of HAL.

The health, efficiency and growth of this aeronautics giant are not just vital for the combat efficiency of our military, but also for the future of our aerospace industry. Unless we make a success of HAL and its various projects, India will forever remain in the backwaters of aeronautics, and import-dependent.

Directionless HAL
In 1940, with the United Kingdom in the throes of a life-and-death struggle against Germany — the Battle of Britain — Winston Churchill formed the Ministry of Aircraft Production, with media mogul Lord Beaverbrook at its head. Under Beaverbrook’s dynamic and imaginative leadership, fighter and bomber production increased so much that Air Marshal Dowding, the head of Fighter Command, stated: “…the RAF lacked the supply of aircraft necessary to withstand the Luftwaffe’s onslaught. Lord Beaverbrook gave us those machines.”

Today, paucity of aircraft finds the IAF in dire straits too, but there is no Lord Beaverbrook in sight. Nor has any of India’s post-independence defence ministers shown the vision to provide a road-map and guidance for exploiting the huge potential of our aeronautics industry. Left in the hands of a lackadaisical Department of Defence Production & Supply, HAL has plodded along, growing in size but not in skills, technology or capability. A glimpse of HAL’s history is instructive.

India’s aviation industry can trace its roots to 1940, when Seth Walchand Hirachand established HAL in Bangalore. Soon after the outbreak of World War II, the government first bought a one-third stake in HAL, and then nationalised it. Handed over to the US Army Air Forces in 1943, HAL repaired and serviced hundreds of flying boats, fighters, bombers and transport aircraft for the Allied war effort in South-East Asia.

Soon after independence, HAL’s chief designer, Dr V.M. Ghatage, embarked on three aircraft projects, and over the next decade, HAL manufactured more than 400 Ghatage-designed aircraft: The HT-2 basic trainer, the Krishak observation aircraft, and the Pushpak. Ghatage’s last outstanding achievement was the design of the HJT-16 ‘Kiran’ jet trainer, of which 190 were built for the IAF and the Indian Navy.

HAL’s crowning glory came in June 1961 with the flight of the HF-24, Marut. The government of India, in a rare flash of inspiration, had acquired the services of German designer Dr Kurt Tank, to help HAL design a jet fighter. A sleek and elegant machine, the Marut had huge potential as a supersonic fighter, but since it was powered by two small turbo-jets, its performance remained sub-sonic and sub-par. Instead of persevering and seeking development options, the government, in a stunning display of apathy and myopia, allowed this project to lapse, with the IAF remaining a mute spectator.

Apart from the Marut and other indigenously-designed aircraft, HAL has, since the 1950s, produced an estimated 3,000 aircraft, including types like the Vampire, MiG-21, MiG-27, Jaguar, Sukhoi-30 and Hawk. The company has also built a few thousand aero-engines of British, French and Russian origin to power these aircraft. These statistics, however, refer only to ‘kit-assembly’ or ‘licenced production’.

Deep lack of confidence
That HAL had failed to acquire adequate aircraft/engine design and production skills became evident in a number of unsuccessful or abortive aircraft projects, coupled with a history of failures (often resulting in fatalities) in the IAF’s MiG-21 fleet and other HAL products. Remarkably, neither MoD, nor the airworthiness, quality control and aviation regulatory authorities in India, have ever held HAL accountable for lapses leading to mishaps.

As HAL’s single largest customer and revenue generator, the Indian military is totally dependent on it for product support, but there continues to be a deep lack of confidence in this PSU, for four good reasons:

(a) The lethargic approach of HAL’s unionised employees, which engenders low productivity and delayed deliveries.

(b) Poor production-engineering standards that create maintenance problems and prevent standardisation in the fleet.

(c) Poor quality control, leading to component failures and accidents.

(d) Unresponsive product support that frequently leaves HAL customers in the lurch.

ow to fix HAL
The fact that in its 79th year of its existence, HAL is considered unfit to undertake production of Rafale point to the following serious lacunae that need to be addressed:

(a) Successive defence ministers, and ministers of state, have failed to devote attention to efficient functioning of defence PSUs and their future growth

(b) The Ministry of Defence bureaucracy has lacked the expertise/inclination to exercise required oversight and supervision over defence PSUs; and

(c) The persons chosen to head these vital undertakings have often been unsuitable – lacking long-term vision, decision-making ability and innovative project-management skills.

Rather than continue its dependence on a pool of ‘generalist’ bureaucracy and the PSU cadres for selecting CEOs, the government of India should bring about a paradigm-shift and look for the best available talent for such challenging assignments. The expanded ‘gene pool’ to find suitably qualified persons in the driving-seat of strategic undertakings (like HAL) could encompass industry and business, but preference needs to be given to demonstrated technical expertise, managerial skills and leadership-talent readily available in the armed forces.

The author is former Indian Navy Chief.

https://theprint.in/opinion/instead...foolishly-celebrating-failures-of-hal/187302/

Exactly, the primary user should be given a say in running of the PSU responsible for huge part of their orders. A good way to start would be to appoint retired/serving members of armed forces as some directors of HAL and other defence PSUs so that they can represent the user in these companies.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Instead of grief & alarm, Indian politicians are foolishly celebrating failures of HAL
It was a measure of India’s dismal political discourse that the dominant sentiment regarding the recent Mirage accident in Bengaluru was one of satisfaction at the failures of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (in the context of the Rahul Gandhi-Narendra Modi-Rafale feud) rather than of grief at the loss of two brave young test pilots of the Indian Air Force.

Obviously there is little realisation that today, a vast majority of the aircraft and helicopters operated by our armed forces, as well as their engines and ancillaries, are produced, overhauled and supported by different divisions of HAL.

The health, efficiency and growth of this aeronautics giant are not just vital for the combat efficiency of our military, but also for the future of our aerospace industry. Unless we make a success of HAL and its various projects, India will forever remain in the backwaters of aeronautics, and import-dependent.

Directionless HAL
In 1940, with the United Kingdom in the throes of a life-and-death struggle against Germany — the Battle of Britain — Winston Churchill formed the Ministry of Aircraft Production, with media mogul Lord Beaverbrook at its head. Under Beaverbrook’s dynamic and imaginative leadership, fighter and bomber production increased so much that Air Marshal Dowding, the head of Fighter Command, stated: “…the RAF lacked the supply of aircraft necessary to withstand the Luftwaffe’s onslaught. Lord Beaverbrook gave us those machines.”

Today, paucity of aircraft finds the IAF in dire straits too, but there is no Lord Beaverbrook in sight. Nor has any of India’s post-independence defence ministers shown the vision to provide a road-map and guidance for exploiting the huge potential of our aeronautics industry. Left in the hands of a lackadaisical Department of Defence Production & Supply, HAL has plodded along, growing in size but not in skills, technology or capability. A glimpse of HAL’s history is instructive.

India’s aviation industry can trace its roots to 1940, when Seth Walchand Hirachand established HAL in Bangalore. Soon after the outbreak of World War II, the government first bought a one-third stake in HAL, and then nationalised it. Handed over to the US Army Air Forces in 1943, HAL repaired and serviced hundreds of flying boats, fighters, bombers and transport aircraft for the Allied war effort in South-East Asia.

Soon after independence, HAL’s chief designer, Dr V.M. Ghatage, embarked on three aircraft projects, and over the next decade, HAL manufactured more than 400 Ghatage-designed aircraft: The HT-2 basic trainer, the Krishak observation aircraft, and the Pushpak. Ghatage’s last outstanding achievement was the design of the HJT-16 ‘Kiran’ jet trainer, of which 190 were built for the IAF and the Indian Navy.

HAL’s crowning glory came in June 1961 with the flight of the HF-24, Marut. The government of India, in a rare flash of inspiration, had acquired the services of German designer Dr Kurt Tank, to help HAL design a jet fighter. A sleek and elegant machine, the Marut had huge potential as a supersonic fighter, but since it was powered by two small turbo-jets, its performance remained sub-sonic and sub-par. Instead of persevering and seeking development options, the government, in a stunning display of apathy and myopia, allowed this project to lapse, with the IAF remaining a mute spectator.

Apart from the Marut and other indigenously-designed aircraft, HAL has, since the 1950s, produced an estimated 3,000 aircraft, including types like the Vampire, MiG-21, MiG-27, Jaguar, Sukhoi-30 and Hawk. The company has also built a few thousand aero-engines of British, French and Russian origin to power these aircraft. These statistics, however, refer only to ‘kit-assembly’ or ‘licenced production’.

Deep lack of confidence
That HAL had failed to acquire adequate aircraft/engine design and production skills became evident in a number of unsuccessful or abortive aircraft projects, coupled with a history of failures (often resulting in fatalities) in the IAF’s MiG-21 fleet and other HAL products. Remarkably, neither MoD, nor the airworthiness, quality control and aviation regulatory authorities in India, have ever held HAL accountable for lapses leading to mishaps.

As HAL’s single largest customer and revenue generator, the Indian military is totally dependent on it for product support, but there continues to be a deep lack of confidence in this PSU, for four good reasons:

(a) The lethargic approach of HAL’s unionised employees, which engenders low productivity and delayed deliveries.

(b) Poor production-engineering standards that create maintenance problems and prevent standardisation in the fleet.

(c) Poor quality control, leading to component failures and accidents.

(d) Unresponsive product support that frequently leaves HAL customers in the lurch.

ow to fix HAL
The fact that in its 79th year of its existence, HAL is considered unfit to undertake production of Rafale point to the following serious lacunae that need to be addressed:

(a) Successive defence ministers, and ministers of state, have failed to devote attention to efficient functioning of defence PSUs and their future growth

(b) The Ministry of Defence bureaucracy has lacked the expertise/inclination to exercise required oversight and supervision over defence PSUs; and

(c) The persons chosen to head these vital undertakings have often been unsuitable – lacking long-term vision, decision-making ability and innovative project-management skills.

Rather than continue its dependence on a pool of ‘generalist’ bureaucracy and the PSU cadres for selecting CEOs, the government of India should bring about a paradigm-shift and look for the best available talent for such challenging assignments. The expanded ‘gene pool’ to find suitably qualified persons in the driving-seat of strategic undertakings (like HAL) could encompass industry and business, but preference needs to be given to demonstrated technical expertise, managerial skills and leadership-talent readily available in the armed forces.

The author is former Indian Navy Chief.

https://theprint.in/opinion/instead...foolishly-celebrating-failures-of-hal/187302/

Exactly, the primary user should be given a say in running of the PSU responsible for huge part of their orders. A good way to start would be to appoint retired/serving members of armed forces as some directors of HAL and other defence PSUs so that they can represent the user in these companies.

Pappu HAL union attempt has failed miserably. So commies have to use the shoulder of a former Indian Navy chief to fire potshots at the government.

 

[Defcon 1]

Pappu HAL union attempt has failed miserably. So commies have to use the shoulder of a former Indian Navy chief to fire potshots at the government.

Instead of taking this article as a potshot we should take this as a genuine feedback for improvement. HAL's problems were present long before the present government.

 

[binayak95]

Pappu HAL union attempt has failed miserably. So commies have to use the shoulder of a former Indian Navy chief to fire potshots at the government.

Not really, Adm Arun Prakash is just being plainspoken. HAL is FUBARed. Thoroughly ruined by the Unions and stupid DMs over the decades.

Beyond saving, if you ask me.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Instead of taking this article as a potshot we should take this as a genuine feedback for improvement. HAL's problems were present long before the present government.

Pappu was using HAL as an attempt to spark massive labor unrest in the country. HAL being the hive of incompetence can only fuck up what is essentially a Tier 3 aircraft aka 4th Generation (1970s era) technology. Now that they are showing incompetence in simple upgrade kits and losing airframes and valuable test pilots.

Now these idiots want to make 4.5 generation aircraft like Rafale and fuck up logistics and serviceability like they did with Su 30 MKI? Best thing would be to split HAL into 3 separate companies each with their own R&D, Labs, Manufacturing and servicing centres. Make the three compete amongst each other and put retired IAF officers incharge of the unit. Recruit directly from engineering colleges and head hunt PIOs from foreign aerospace firms.

Look at Indian Navy and how they manage things compared to IAF. Private sector can't compete with them and there is nomination between different shipyards for new naval orders.

Pappu's gambit failed so @theprint is butthurt!

 

[ezsasa]

Pappu was using HAL as an attempt to spark massive labor unrest in the country. HAL being the hive of incompetence can only fuck up what is essentially a Tier 3 aircraft aka 4th Generation (1970s era) technology. Now that they are showing incompetence in simple upgrade kits and losing airframes and valuable test pilots.

Now these idiots want to make 4.5 generation aircraft like Rafale and fuck up logistics and serviceability like they did with Su 30 MKI? Best thing would be to split HAL into 3 separate companies each with their own R&D, Labs, Manufacturing and servicing centres. Make the three compete amongst each other and put retired IAF officers incharge of the unit. Recruit directly from engineering colleges and head hunt PIOs from foreign aerospace firms.

Look at Indian Navy and how they manage things compared to IAF. Private sector can't compete with them and there is nomination between different shipyards for new naval orders.

Pappu's gambit failed so @theprint is butthurt!

If Pappu has not used HAL like he did last month on Rafale issue, he along with his darbari channels would have blamed this accident on modi govt.

Politics politics politics......

 

[ezsasa]

Looks like HAL employees are hell bent on ruining their own reputation....
======

Army's HAL-built ALH Rudra Mk IV chopper makes emegency landing outside Bengaluru due to possible hydraulic failure. Hearing it was on an acceptance sortie like the Mirage 2000 that crashed on Feb 1.

 

[rone]

Looks like HAL employees are hell bent on ruining their own reputation....
======

Army's HAL-built ALH Rudra Mk IV chopper makes emegency landing outside Bengaluru due to possible hydraulic failure. Hearing it was on an acceptance sortie like the Mirage 2000 that crashed on Feb 1.

i think HAl time has come its judgment day, let remove all corrupted leaders form that organisation and put someone who does something and takes national security little bit seriously

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Looks like HAL employees are hell bent on ruining their own reputation....
======

Army's HAL-built ALH Rudra Mk IV chopper makes emegency landing outside Bengaluru due to possible hydraulic failure. Hearing it was on an acceptance sortie like the Mirage 2000 that crashed on Feb 1.

From replies to the tweet:

 

[Haldiram]

Fighting abilities affected’: IAF chief on force’s long association with HAL
The air chief was delivering the 10th ‘Jumbo’ Majumdar International Conference at the Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS) in New Delhi and was responding to criticism about the IAF’s alleged dislike for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, the indigenous fighter made by HAL.

The Indian Air Force’s efforts to support the state-owned aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has affected its fighting capabilities, Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa said on Friday.

IAF has only cooperated with HAL; “as a service; we have made concessions for HAL, but will the enemy make any concession for us when we face them in battle?” he questioned.

The air chief was delivering the 10th ‘Jumbo’ Majumdar International Conference at the Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS) in New Delhi and was responding to criticism about the IAF’s alleged dislike for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, the indigenous fighter made by HAL.

“IAF has not shifted any goal posts as alleged,” ACM Dhanoa said countering allegations that developments of the Tejas fighter suffered because the IAF changed specifications and requirements frequently. On the contrary, the IAF chief said, “We have maintained the Air Staff Quality Requirements (ASQR or specifications) of the first 20 LCA Mk-I at standards issued in 1985.” And even then HAL has been able to manufacture only “10 fighters”, he added.

A HAL spokesperson declined comment on the air chief’s comments which come at a time when the state-owned aircraft maker is in financial distress of some sort and also when it is in the middle of the controversy surrounding the government’s Rafale fighter deal.

A HAL official who spoke on condition of anonymity asked: “Doesn’t IAF allow concessions and modifications to foreign vendors? Concessions are also given to Defence Research Development Organisation and the Aeronautical Development Agency. Why is HAL being singled out?”

Putting HAL on the mat, ACMl Dhanoa said upgrading of one squadron of Jaguar deep strike bombers, nearly two squadrons of Su-30MKi, India’s mainstay fighters, and one squadron of Mirage-2000, a multi-role fighter , all work being done by the state-owned firm, was far behind schedule. “Additional production of Su-30 is delayed by over two years and LCA production commitment (has been delayed) by over six years,” he added.

In addition, the air chief said in its quest for indigenisation, IAF has lost as many as 17 personnel including test pilots and engineers in air accidents. These accidents happened when “testing and evaluation” of the indigenous platforms such as Marut fighters and Kiran trainers.

The National Democratic Alliance’s deal to buy 36 Rafale fighters in a government to government deal from France has become controversial. It replaces a deal by the previous government to buy 126 aircraft of which 108 were to be assembled in India by HAL. The government has said the old deal wasn’t viable. The opposition Congress and others have claimed the new deal is costlier than the old one, that due process wasn’t followed, and that the new deal was done to benefit Reliance Defence, an offset partner of Rafale maker Dassault. Reliance, Dassault and the government have denied this. The government has also said the prices are not comparable because the new deal also includes India-specific customisation and weapons. The Supreme Court recently said it believes due process was followed in the deal and that it wouldn’t go into the pricing of the deal, effectively giving the government a clean chit.

However, the controversy continues to rage on. In the course of this, HAL’s ability to manufacture aircraft has also been called into question.

The IAF chief also said that the force can’t cut down either expenditure or its workforce anymore. “The entire salary bill of the IAF is Rs.16621 crores, while our capital expenditure is Rs 35407 crores. We need Rs 8870 crores for fuel and maintenance.” He added: “There is no way we can cut our manpower to pay for our capital acquisitions.”

Explaining the high cost of operations, the IAF chief explained: “Manning of a Su-30 squadron is nearly twice that of a MiG-21 squadron and the cost of per hour operation is 3.5 times higher.”

Again both IAF and HAL playing "press conference - press conference". I'm sure, if both of them took their issue to the Def Min, it will be heard and resolved. Mud slinging via press conference serves no purpose other than the manufacture public pressure on the govt. What's the problem with raising all these issues in the Cabinet Committee on Security, instead of press conference?

 

[vampyrbladez]

Looks like HAL employees are hell bent on ruining their own reputation....
======

Army's HAL-built ALH Rudra Mk IV chopper makes emegency landing outside Bengaluru due to possible hydraulic failure. Hearing it was on an acceptance sortie like the Mirage 2000 that crashed on Feb 1.

Ironically, this is one of the few saving graces of HAL aka Helicopters. Still shows that quality control needs to be boosted up.