Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

captscooby81

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EXCLUSIVE: IAF Arming Su-30s With ASRAAMs, May Standardise Missile Across Fleet
Shiv AroorJan 31 2019 11 28 am



In an ambitious, unprecedented move, the Indian Air Force is currently in the final stages of a move that could ruffle feathers in Russia — mating a British missile system with its Russian-origin Su-30 MKI fighters, something it has never done before. Top IAF sources tell Livefist that a pair of HAL-built Su-30 MKI jets have undergone requisite software modifications to deploy the MBDA ASRAAM heat-seeking close combat air-to-air missile. What the IAF intends to do is fully replace the Su-30 MKI’s current close combat missile — the Russian-built Vympel R-73 — with the ASRAAM in phases.

For a service that has rarely standardised equipment across its diverse fleet of Russian and European aircraft, the IAF’s intentions with the ASRAAM stem from its experience with the successful recent integration of the missile system with its Jaguar deep penetration strike jets. Part of a £250 million IAF contract with MBDA UK in July 2014, the ASRAAM-armed Jaguars are to be declared operationally ready this year. IAF sources said the first ASRAAM-armed Su-30s would be declared ready around the same time, and will make use of the same testing cycle.

The Indian government’s National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), an outfit under the Ministry of Science and Technology, was tasked with proving the stability of the ASRAAM on the Su-30 airframe at its Bengaluru wind-tunnels. NAL sources confirm to Livefist that flutter analysis and safety of flight tests were conducted last year. With carriage flight trials underway, guided test-firings will likely take place this summer.


MBDA Photo / RAF Jaguar

If the IAF has its way, the ASRAAM could have a longer flight path in Indian service. As Livefist reported in 2017, the ASRAAM is under consideration as a weapon system on the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, while the IAF has officially opened discussions on arming its Hawk trainers with the ASRAAM and Brimstone weapon system. If the IAF is looking beyond the R-73 on the Su-30 MKI, then it stands to reason that it could do the same on its recently upgraded Russian MiG-29 fighter fleet. But IAF sources confirm that the Su-30 MKI fleet is a priority program for the ASRAAM integration.

Having to navigate diplomatic and strategic sensitivities with Russia could be precisely why the IAF has pursued the ASRAAM integration as quietly as possible, though the steady stream of give and take between Moscow and Delhi could accommodate a move that would, in normal course, be deeply irksome to Russia.

On the other hand, as Livefist reported earlier this month, the IAF is looking to expand its Su-30 fleet with a proposal to build 40 more jets under license at HAL’s Nashik facility. Livefist can now confirm that the Indian government has formally requested Russia to extend the production license, a requirement before deciding on the additional numbers it will choose to build.

The IAF chose the ASRAAM in 2013 after a contest that involved the Israeli Python, the German Diehl IRIS-T and American Raytheon AIM-9X Sidewinder. While India is well into testing its indigenous beyond visual range air-to-air Astra missile, its weapons program doesn’t include a close combat air-to-air missile, compelling it to depend on imported systems through its history. Comparable past systems include Matra Magic II and MICA IR on its Mirage 2000 fleet.

The move to attempt a standardisation of the ASRAAM across its combat aircraft fleet could be helped along by a proposal from the missile’s maker, MBDA, which has proposed to shift final assembly of the weapon system from Bolton in the United Kingdom to the facilities of India’s state-owned missile house Bharat Dynamics Ltd in Hyderabad as part of offsets obligations across contracts.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ams-may-standardise-missile-across-fleet.html
 

Enquirer

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EXCLUSIVE: IAF Arming Su-30s With ASRAAMs, May Standardise Missile Across Fleet
Shiv AroorJan 31 2019 11 28 am



In an ambitious, unprecedented move, the Indian Air Force is currently in the final stages of a move that could ruffle feathers in Russia — mating a British missile system with its Russian-origin Su-30 MKI fighters, something it has never done before. Top IAF sources tell Livefist that a pair of HAL-built Su-30 MKI jets have undergone requisite software modifications to deploy the MBDA ASRAAM heat-seeking close combat air-to-air missile. What the IAF intends to do is fully replace the Su-30 MKI’s current close combat missile — the Russian-built Vympel R-73 — with the ASRAAM in phases.

For a service that has rarely standardised equipment across its diverse fleet of Russian and European aircraft, the IAF’s intentions with the ASRAAM stem from its experience with the successful recent integration of the missile system with its Jaguar deep penetration strike jets. Part of a £250 million IAF contract with MBDA UK in July 2014, the ASRAAM-armed Jaguars are to be declared operationally ready this year. IAF sources said the first ASRAAM-armed Su-30s would be declared ready around the same time, and will make use of the same testing cycle.

The Indian government’s National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), an outfit under the Ministry of Science and Technology, was tasked with proving the stability of the ASRAAM on the Su-30 airframe at its Bengaluru wind-tunnels. NAL sources confirm to Livefist that flutter analysis and safety of flight tests were conducted last year. With carriage flight trials underway, guided test-firings will likely take place this summer.


MBDA Photo / RAF Jaguar

If the IAF has its way, the ASRAAM could have a longer flight path in Indian service. As Livefist reported in 2017, the ASRAAM is under consideration as a weapon system on the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, while the IAF has officially opened discussions on arming its Hawk trainers with the ASRAAM and Brimstone weapon system. If the IAF is looking beyond the R-73 on the Su-30 MKI, then it stands to reason that it could do the same on its recently upgraded Russian MiG-29 fighter fleet. But IAF sources confirm that the Su-30 MKI fleet is a priority program for the ASRAAM integration.

Having to navigate diplomatic and strategic sensitivities with Russia could be precisely why the IAF has pursued the ASRAAM integration as quietly as possible, though the steady stream of give and take between Moscow and Delhi could accommodate a move that would, in normal course, be deeply irksome to Russia.

On the other hand, as Livefist reported earlier this month, the IAF is looking to expand its Su-30 fleet with a proposal to build 40 more jets under license at HAL’s Nashik facility. Livefist can now confirm that the Indian government has formally requested Russia to extend the production license, a requirement before deciding on the additional numbers it will choose to build.

The IAF chose the ASRAAM in 2013 after a contest that involved the Israeli Python, the German Diehl IRIS-T and American Raytheon AIM-9X Sidewinder. While India is well into testing its indigenous beyond visual range air-to-air Astra missile, its weapons program doesn’t include a close combat air-to-air missile, compelling it to depend on imported systems through its history. Comparable past systems include Matra Magic II and MICA IR on its Mirage 2000 fleet.

The move to attempt a standardisation of the ASRAAM across its combat aircraft fleet could be helped along by a proposal from the missile’s maker, MBDA, which has proposed to shift final assembly of the weapon system from Bolton in the United Kingdom to the facilities of India’s state-owned missile house Bharat Dynamics Ltd in Hyderabad as part of offsets obligations across contracts.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ams-may-standardise-missile-across-fleet.html
That sounds like an order of about $4 Billion !!

Very likely that Tejas would also be equipped with the same - that's another $4 Billion (if you account for Mk1/Mk1A/Mk2)
 
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proud_indian

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That sounds like an order of about $4 Billion !!

Very likely that Tejas would also be equipped with the same - that's another $4 Billion (if you account for Mk1/Mk1A/Mk2)
If we had a requirement of such magnitude then why didn't we try to develop one on our own?
 

binayak95

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If we had a requirement of such magnitude then why didn't we try to develop one on our own?
Because it's not easy at all - we are only NOW getting the Astra into service and that is a BVR radar-guided missile.

Close Combat Missiles (IR primarily) are much more complex. Especially their motors and the need to be able to maneuver, and lead the target at supersonic speeds.
 

proud_indian

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Because it's not easy at all - we are only NOW getting the Astra into service and that is a BVR radar-guided missile.

Close Combat Missiles (IR primarily) are much more complex. Especially their motors and the need to be able to maneuver, and lead the target at supersonic speeds.
and what technology or know-how do we get if MBDA manufacture/assemble them here in India?
 

proud_indian

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Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDHARTH: LoLz! It is 100% PAID/FAKE NEWS aimed at derailing the additional orders for Su-30MKIs, which was reported today & which was predicted by me since 2009:

https://www.business-standard.com/a...rs-to-alleviate-shortfall-119013100042_1.html

Such PAID/FAKE NEWS also proves that the parents of these ‘desi patrakaars’ & their endorsers/supporters completely wasted their money when they decided to send their kids to school for getting educated. For, as such PAID/FAKE NEWS proves, these ‘desi patrakaars’ & their endorsers/supporters have ZERO respect for the laws of the physical sciences & consequently end up being the world's laughing stock. Consider the following:

The malicious news-report talks only about wind-tunnel tests, but NOTHING about the all-important electronic integration of the AIM-132 ASRAAM with either the SURA-1 HMDS or the Su-30MKI’s weapons-control computer. And since Russia hasn’t shared the source-codes for any of the on-board mission avionics of the Su-30MKI with India, how the hell can the ASRAAM be electronically integrated? In addition, in case a non-Russian HMDS were to be procured for use with the ASRAAM, then how will the HMDS be integrated with the Su-30MKI’s OLS-30 IRST sensor (whose source-code too has not been shared by Russia with the IAF), which is reqd for nighttime air combat?
Weapons integration therefore is not done with a hammer, screwdriver & some nails. Finally, if the IAF wants to rationalise its stockpiles of SRAAMs, then why the hell was the ASRAAM not selected for the Rafale or the MiG-29UPG or Mirage 2000N? Why were MICA & Meteor AAMs ordered when the ASRAAM/Meteor combination would have sufficed? Hence, from all viewing angles, that news-report is 100% malicious & fake, rest assured. And how can the ASRAAM's Cobham-built ejector be integrated with the Su-30MKI's pylons? Where will the interface come from & who will design/develop it? Has anyone given any thought to all these?

Finally, though the IN had mounted a Sea Eagle ASCM on an external fuselage-mounted pylon on the Il-38 MRMR/ASW aircraft, NOT A SINGLE test-firing in such a configuration was successful & the entire effort was terminated since it was a total failure.

@Enquirer what's your take
 

proud_indian

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Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDHARTH: LoLz! It is 100% PAID/FAKE NEWS aimed at derailing the additional orders for Su-30MKIs, which was reported today & which was predicted by me since 2009:

https://www.business-standard.com/a...rs-to-alleviate-shortfall-119013100042_1.html

Such PAID/FAKE NEWS also proves that the parents of these ‘desi patrakaars’ & their endorsers/supporters completely wasted their money when they decided to send their kids to school for getting educated. For, as such PAID/FAKE NEWS proves, these ‘desi patrakaars’ & their endorsers/supporters have ZERO respect for the laws of the physical sciences & consequently end up being the world's laughing stock. Consider the following:

The malicious news-report talks only about wind-tunnel tests, but NOTHING about the all-important electronic integration of the AIM-132 ASRAAM with either the SURA-1 HMDS or the Su-30MKI’s weapons-control computer. And since Russia hasn’t shared the source-codes for any of the on-board mission avionics of the Su-30MKI with India, how the hell can the ASRAAM be electronically integrated? In addition, in case a non-Russian HMDS were to be procured for use with the ASRAAM, then how will the HMDS be integrated with the Su-30MKI’s OLS-30 IRST sensor (whose source-code too has not been shared by Russia with the IAF), which is reqd for nighttime air combat?
Weapons integration therefore is not done with a hammer, screwdriver & some nails. Finally, if the IAF wants to rationalise its stockpiles of SRAAMs, then why the hell was the ASRAAM not selected for the Rafale or the MiG-29UPG or Mirage 2000N? Why were MICA & Meteor AAMs ordered when the ASRAAM/Meteor combination would have sufficed? Hence, from all viewing angles, that news-report is 100% malicious & fake, rest assured. And how can the ASRAAM's Cobham-built ejector be integrated with the Su-30MKI's pylons? Where will the interface come from & who will design/develop it? Has anyone given any thought to all these?

Finally, though the IN had mounted a Sea Eagle ASCM on an external fuselage-mounted pylon on the Il-38 MRMR/ASW aircraft, NOT A SINGLE test-firing in such a configuration was successful & the entire effort was terminated since it was a total failure.

@Enquirer what's your take
 

Enquirer

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Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDHARTH: LoLz! It is 100% PAID/FAKE NEWS aimed at derailing the additional orders for Su-30MKIs, which was reported today & which was predicted by me since 2009:

https://www.business-standard.com/a...rs-to-alleviate-shortfall-119013100042_1.html

Such PAID/FAKE NEWS also proves that the parents of these ‘desi patrakaars’ & their endorsers/supporters completely wasted their money when they decided to send their kids to school for getting educated. For, as such PAID/FAKE NEWS proves, these ‘desi patrakaars’ & their endorsers/supporters have ZERO respect for the laws of the physical sciences & consequently end up being the world's laughing stock. Consider the following:

The malicious news-report talks only about wind-tunnel tests, but NOTHING about the all-important electronic integration of the AIM-132 ASRAAM with either the SURA-1 HMDS or the Su-30MKI’s weapons-control computer. And since Russia hasn’t shared the source-codes for any of the on-board mission avionics of the Su-30MKI with India, how the hell can the ASRAAM be electronically integrated? In addition, in case a non-Russian HMDS were to be procured for use with the ASRAAM, then how will the HMDS be integrated with the Su-30MKI’s OLS-30 IRST sensor (whose source-code too has not been shared by Russia with the IAF), which is reqd for nighttime air combat?
Weapons integration therefore is not done with a hammer, screwdriver & some nails. Finally, if the IAF wants to rationalise its stockpiles of SRAAMs, then why the hell was the ASRAAM not selected for the Rafale or the MiG-29UPG or Mirage 2000N? Why were MICA & Meteor AAMs ordered when the ASRAAM/Meteor combination would have sufficed? Hence, from all viewing angles, that news-report is 100% malicious & fake, rest assured. And how can the ASRAAM's Cobham-built ejector be integrated with the Su-30MKI's pylons? Where will the interface come from & who will design/develop it? Has anyone given any thought to all these?

Finally, though the IN had mounted a Sea Eagle ASCM on an external fuselage-mounted pylon on the Il-38 MRMR/ASW aircraft, NOT A SINGLE test-firing in such a configuration was successful & the entire effort was terminated since it was a total failure.

@Enquirer what's your take
IAF being serious about integrating ASRAAM on Su-30MKI is very true. NAL has indeed conducted some tests(mentioned in their annual report).
That said, we can’t be sure if it will
Indeed materialize; there are a lot more things that need to happen before we can be sure.
Both LiveFist and Trishul have the reputation for spewing hot air. They both also reveal somethings correctly.
 

Enquirer

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Are you saying sir we are getting nothing then?:shock:
There’s no deal as yet. I am saying what I think is logical for license production.
There are a lot of components that MBDA itself outsources. It’s unlikely that every vendor associated with MBDA will furnish his transfer technology.
Let’s wait & see.
 

Wisemarko

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IAF Mirage 2000 aircraft crashes near Bengaluru’s HAL airport, both pilots dead

Smoke billows from the wreckage of a Mirage 2000 aircraft which crashed in Bengaluru Friday morning.(ANI)
Updated: Feb 01, 2019 11:38 IST

By HT Correspondent, New Delhi

Both pilots of a Mirage 2000 aircraft of the Indian Airforce were killed after it crashed at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) airport at Bengaluru this morning.

The Mirage 2000 trainer was upgraded by HAL and was going through acceptance trials.

One of pilots landed back on the wreckage after ejecting, while the second pilot died in an operation theatre.

Further details are awaited. HAL qualify of work is questionable.
 

Narasimh

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IAF Mirage 2000 aircraft crashes near Bengaluru’s HAL airport, both pilots dead

Smoke billows from the wreckage of a Mirage 2000 aircraft which crashed in Bengaluru Friday morning.(ANI)
Updated: Feb 01, 2019 11:38 IST

By HT Correspondent, New Delhi

Both pilots of a Mirage 2000 aircraft of the Indian Airforce were killed after it crashed at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) airport at Bengaluru this morning.

The Mirage 2000 trainer was upgraded by HAL and was going through acceptance trials.

One of pilots landed back on the wreckage after ejecting, while the second pilot died in an operation theatre.

Further details are awaited. HAL qualify of work is questionable.
RIP.. Sad sad news

3000000000000000000000000000
 

itsme

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This is near my house and the airport is right besides my frnds place. He told me the pilots made sure the plane crashed in an empty field, I guess that's why they ejected late n lost their lives. This is so sad. If the fault is with HAL the entire dept should be severy reprimanded. Rip heroes.
 

rone

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Just break hal in to different sub division allow only merit based recruitment no reservation needed, privates a part of hal,
 

jackprince

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If it is found that the aircraft crashed because of faulty avionics ( and damn straight it will be so as both the pilots were Sq. Leaders), not only the technicians and the scientists involved should be prosecuted, HAL itself should be dissolved. I have been a long time supporter of HAL, but such dereliction cannot be overlooked. No wonder IAF does not want to have anything to do with HAL!

Fuck! HAL alone has been doing all the work for China and Pakistan.

The fuckers are now trying to derail the c295 deal.

Idiots cannot even manufacture simple stuff like helicopter's blades after full TOT.
 

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