India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[BON PLAN]

LOOKS LIKE A RAFALE HUNTER KILLER PLANE,

Killer? Maybe. In 5 years when inducted on a serial basis.
Hunter? it has legs far too short to do so.

Remember it's a light plane made to point defense. If a gentle Rafale with a drunk pilot came near its base, maybe Tejas can catch him...

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

@salute, read properly. It is written - Specification (HAL Tejas mk.1A)

Look up govt / iaf press release on tejas ioc it says combat radius 500+ km

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Dassault engineers, a small compagny among beast like Lookeed, Boeing, Sukhoi.... are skilled enough, even if they are few (because small compagny, and they are french ! too handicaped...), to studied a top class fighter. So top that IAF, after a very strong field test, said it is the best with EF.
And India's team is not alone.... Switzerland make the same rank, but Rafale clearly first.

Not so bad for a small compagny, with few french stupid engineers.

Small correction

Iaf did not say it is the best

What iaf said was that rafale & EF met highest no of iaf parameters out of the six contenders

There are more than those 6 contenders in real world

Also neither rafale nor Ed nor any of the six contenders met all evaluation parameters.of iaf

 

[smestarz]

India's top management don't need to rely too much on one supplier.
You are even over equipped with russian weapons.

During Kargil we gave you all the key to help you and Israeli's specialist to implement Mirage 2000. This is a proof.

France did not really help, it was all thanks to Isarel and ADA. By the way, we did ask help on Tejas and we paid for it, and Dasault contribution, Zip....

 

[garg_bharat]

After wasting fifteen years on MRCA this will take ten years to negotiate or new government will come and cancel.

Who wasted 15 years on Rafale?
Why this entity wasted 15 years on Rafale? Do we need to fix responsibility?

I would like to see some government types thrown out of their cushy jobs.

 

[garg_bharat]

Here are the prices given to the French Senate for 2015 :
- Rafale B 73 M€ TTC (TTC = with taxes. without taxe, it is nearly the price in $)
- Rafale C 68 M€ TTC ( "" )
- Rafale M 78 M€ TTC ( "" )

Without support, training, weapons, spares, air base implementation, test bench, ToT (Even if it is an aff the shelf sell, there is ToT ...), Offset....

You have to add all of that for India + customer tuning (new laser pod, helmet (Or taking the one Qatar choose... surely not Isaeli's) + adaptation of your local medium range missile + ???

Your calculation does not add up to 11 billion euro for 36 units.
Can you itemise prices.

 

[garg_bharat]

India's top management don't need to rely too much on one supplier.
You are even over equipped with russian weapons.

During Kargil we gave you all the key to help you and Israeli's specialist to implement Mirage 2000. This is a proof.

France has changed. French politics has changed since Kargil. France was a friend. It no longer seems so anymore. Today's France is only interested in gouging money from India.

 

[Immanuel]

Tss Tss Tss.
Some another false affirmations.my dear Smestarz.

No request in the MMRCA of twin engine. If Gripen is indeed very light, a F16 bk60 has a very powerfull engine, largely enough for that purpose.

YES, You're right on L1. EF and Rafale were declared OK, and Rafale win on L1.

The reality is that all the other planes FAILED to reach perf needed. Hot temperature and high altitude runaway test perf were it seems very hard to obtain or unreachable for some plane (SH 18 and F16 ie). As time to replace engine for exemple.

The Super Hornet failed only to take-off from Leh, it only needs a small engine mod to allow it to do that, I believe the said engine mod is already implemented on the F414 as it needs to be the case for LCA MK-2. The US fighters outperformed all the others when it comes to weapons trials and avionics. The Super Hornet demonstrated engine swap in under 30 mins, which is actually faster than the Rafale and EF could manage. Rafale being L-1 was a gross mis calculation, when the MOD dug up the true cost whcih Dassult had cleverly hidden, the cost of the MRCA Rafale deal balloned to over 30 billion or more. Hence the MRCA had to be cancelled.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

No two or more sets of data ever match ! Take for instance the capacity of Arihant's Reactor. I have seen sources quoting from 80 MW to 96 MW. I don't believe in the specs quoted by guys at defence expo stalls.

I have always seen one figure of 83 MW.

 

[garg_bharat]

I think a lot need to change in how India buys military equipment.

A lot is already happening, but the pace needs to be quickened.

India will not survive without a sound military industrial complex. The current PSUs are inadequate. The MIC needs to be driven by private sector.

 

[smestarz]

Killer? Maybe. In 5 years when inducted on a serial basis.
Hunter? it has legs far too short to do so.

Remember it's a light plane made to point defense. If a gentle Rafale with a drunk pilot came near its base, maybe Tejas can catch him...

Well then its best for you to sell to our neighbours, we shall have that chance too. Does France have balls enough to do it and lose rest of the business with india? we realise that we are the buyers and we have the money to spend (not throw away) and there are lot of suitors who want to sell to us..Which included France,
BTW, when would France be sacking Drian? From past 2 years he claimed to have insight in the deal and the deal would be signed... And he is your Def min right?

 

[smestarz]

The Super Hornet failed only to take-off from Leh, it only needs a small engine mod to allow it to do that, I believe the said engine mod is already implemented on the F414 as it needs to be the case for LCA MK-2. The US fighters outperformed all the others when it comes to weapons trials and avionics. The Super Hornet demonstrated engine swap in under 30 mins, which is actually faster than the Rafale and EF could manage. Rafale being L-1 was a gross mis calculation, when the MOD dug up the true cost whcih Dassult had cleverly hidden, the cost of the MRCA Rafale deal balloned to over 30 billion or more. Hence the MRCA had to be cancelled.

My estimate more than 40 billion with the ToT and the lines

 

[smestarz]

Why? The interest od Dassault and french govt is to sell Rafale. Of course.
It cost to Dassault to send high rank persons in india every 15 days.

Was it not cheaper for you to send him on vacation to some nice Mediteranean Island? Many members had forecasted that Rafale would not be signed . But then you were confident that IAF top brass have managed to fix the deal and ensure the signing with their unusual Statements and justifications in press.
Wat Parrikar did has in a way has slapped the IAF across its face and told them BEHAVE ..

 

[smestarz]

India's top management don't need to rely too much on one supplier.
You are even over equipped with russian weapons.

During Kargil we gave you all the key to help you and Israeli's specialist to implement Mirage 2000. This is a proof.

Werent you the jokers who put the lock in the first place?

 

[smestarz]

I just show how my friend Spestarz made adaptative answers.

What he has quoted was already quoted by me and its from Wiki.. Rafail and Frogs... OUT

 

[sasum]

I have always seen one figure of 83 MW.

80 MW
http://thediplomat.com/2013/07/indias-first-ballistic-missile-sub-to-begin-sea-trials/
85 MW
http://thefederalist-gary.blogspot.in/2012/08/india-to-test-1st-nuclear-sub.html?m=1
96 MW rating was given by one of our forum members, not able to recall..@warrior monk?

 

[smestarz]

Here are the prices given to the French Senate for 2015 :
- Rafale B 73 M€ TTC (TTC = with taxes. without taxe, it is nearly the price in $)
- Rafale C 68 M€ TTC ( "" )
- Rafale M 78 M€ TTC ( "" )

Without support, training, weapons, spares, air base implementation, test bench, ToT (Even if it is an aff the shelf sell, there is ToT ...), Offset....

You have to add all of that for India + customer tuning (new laser pod, helmet (Or taking the one Qatar choose... surely not Isaeli's) + adaptation of your local medium range missile + ???

Since it is export, there is no VAT right, you know it correct? How much is the VAT % in France I understand it should be close to 20%. 1 US$ roughly equals € 0.91 so that is around 10% and not 20% so if you remove the VAT, the price in dollars should still be lower.. this is just academic...

Flyway cost as per what you say (lets accept it for a moment) US$ 68 m. Spares... almost US$ 68 mn for 20 yeas,
Based on the calculation done yesterday, the unit flying cost you put is 68 million but the total package being offered to India is 5 times this price..spares for 20 years is same as price of a plane. so what are the other 300% coming to? Unlimited supply for Missiles and bombs?

 

[Jangaruda]

No need for Gripen... I think the best choice is to buy the MiG-35 as it is a development of the Mig-29 which India already operates thus reducing extra costs...

 

[Tactical Frog]

Your calculation does not add up to 11 billion euro for 36 units.
Can you itemise prices.

India will need to build a Rafale simulation center. France has two of them. This is very expensive .. probably in the _€ 100 -200 million range. Qatar and Egypt seem to have ordered this. Lot of technical info available there :
http://www.sogitec.com/pdf/INTER28A/InterActions_28_EN.pdf

 

[Tactical Frog]

About that whole thread : one of the fighter aircraft to be built in India by private sector will be the Rafale.
The second one will be a pink unicorn .