India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[smestarz]

See guys. ADA has proposed some change in design for better aerodynamic improvement in tejas that shall bring down drag by 8%. This shall improve Transsonic acceleration by 20% and top speed at sea level by 2%. The proposed change shall allow 3 to 3.5% i.e 60 KG higher fuel carrying. These 2 changes to gather should make ferry range higher by at least 200 KM or even more. The success of these aircraft lies in refining it. The major area I see for improvement are
1) Aerodynamic
2) Weight reduction
3) Air intake redesign.

Within next 10 years, we can make Tejas a 5700 to 5500 KG aircraft with top of the line technology and best performance. What we need is to just keep it improving. In Some time from now, We shall have a bellow 6 ton aircraft capable of carrying 4.5 ton pay load and capable of 9 g turn with AOA 28*. What better can you expect?

Mk 1 shall be an A$$ kicking platfor for sure.

LOOKS LIKE A RAFALE HUNTER KILLER PLANE,

 

[smestarz]

You said just before :
"Unfoftunately you are wrong, the range of Tejas on internal fuel is 850 kms"

So what are the right datas ?

Your answers are like F14 wings..... at variable geometry !

Do you also know that the range varies with the load? Different people use different loads or mission parameters to define range.
Does Rafale have same range on Lo-Lo-Lo mission as Hi Lo Hi?
Same range for say Strike mission without extrenal fuel tanks for A2A mission,
So Rafale range is fixed no matter what mission parameters you fly?

850 kms is a generally accepted range with normal A2A role

 

[smestarz]

Or until 31th of march we received on order for 60 pieces from UAE....

If you receive order from UAE then its good for French. UAE is still far off, not happening so soon.

 

[smestarz]

I think French are only playing with india. There is no intention to sell, only to delay.

Unfortunately IAF leadership is ignorant of this.

The French depended on the UPA govt to first dleay the signing (which they did ) and then jack up the price to almost US$ 50 billion for the MMRCA contract and then IAF on cue (as it has always done) would give press conference on how dire India's defence situation is. This is the same IAF which cannot secure its military air base from attacks. They wanted to have a bumper bonus for themselves and the italian waitress, but the change in Govt did all the loss

 

[garg_bharat]

It is clear that French are playing with india. There was no intention to sell the plane to begin with. The only intention is to delay Indian procurement and so degrade Indian capability.

Should we care who French sell to?

Unfortunately Indian leaders are foolish. There must be a deadline for everything. Time has come to respect deadlines.

 

[salute]

Dassault engineers, a small compagny among beast like Lookeed, Boeing, Sukhoi.... are skilled enough, even if they are few (because small compagny, and they are french ! too handicaped...), to studied a top class fighter. So top that IAF, after a very strong field test, said it is the best with EF.
And India's team is not alone.... Switzerland make the same rank, but Rafale clearly first.

Not so bad for a small compagny, with few french stupid engineers.

so why cannot few french stupid marketing guys or planners of that company put some affordable price.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

After wasting fifteen years on MRCA this will take ten years to negotiate or new government will come and cancel.

 

[sasum]

After wasting fifteen years on MRCA this will take ten years to negotiate or new government will come and cancel.

Actually, we don't need warplanes. We will keep fighting proxy wars with Paki terrorists. About China, they are too big to bother and dont care whether we acquire 36 or 126 Rafalla.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Actually, we don't need warplanes. We will keep fighting proxy wars with Paki terrorists.

Are you sure of this statement? India is the world's largest arms importer.seems like a bad strategy we don't need weapons we need few weapons it ok our enemy has weapons .
Do you also believe we don't need a military?

 

[Immanuel]

And 5 years after, Indian PM need officially 36..... RAFALE ?
You have absolutely no source to prove what you write. If you don(t like Rafale, it's your problem, but don't say wrong news.

I keep telling you to stop bitching, the reason why MRCA process had to be cancelled was because fo Dassalt having a lot of hidden costs and the total cost of 126 fighters was coming to around 28-30 billion $. Again you little turd, don't come around talking like you know shit, we have been following this deal since the last 8 years and more. Hence the finally the PM had to reduce the figure to 36, even now you bitches are cribbing about price. I have always said, one can always rely on Dassult to fuck up a virtually done deal.

 

[Immanuel]

SH18 is an anemic fighter. One sole international Customer : Australia. Why? only because it has long legs and is american.
And with an amerian product, there always is a damocles sword on your head. You are never totally the owner .... They can stop support at each time. See UAE with F16 bk60 ....

What we buy from whom is none of your business! What has dealing with France gotten us, waste of 5 years? We have plenty of US products, so does your nation so stop bitching. We are fully capable of dealing with the US just like we are fully capable of telling Dassult to go fuck itself with the Rafale.

 

[rohit b3]

listen buddy . i went to the 'make in india' exhibition recently---just few days ago . there , besides a model of tejas aircraft were it's specifications . and the model and specifications were posted by HAL , for it was HAL's part of the exhibition . among the specifications was written tejas' combat radius---300 km .

now if HAL says the combat radius is 300km then you cant argue against it , can you....

The Press Information Bureau during Tejas's IOC mentions that Tejas has a combat radius of 500 kms.
However Combat radius depends on the kind of mission and loitering time,
The Ferry Range of Tejas on internal fuel is 1700 kms. This can be achieved when Tejas is flying in a clean configuration at high altitude with a perfect cruising speed.
However in a real operational scenario, the ferry range would obviously go down due to its arnaments , changing flight altitudes, changing maneuvers, speed,etc.
In such operations the range could possibly go down to 1400-1500 kms. And thus the combat radius seems around 500 kms (travelling upto 500 kms...loitering/bombing/aerial battle,etc .....travelling back 500 kms)

And any Mirage2000 is much inferior to Tejas. To start off, Its a 1980s aircraft with lots of analog controls. However being a Bigger Aircraft, it has more weapons load than Tejas.

 

[smestarz]

It is clear that French are playing with india. There was no intention to sell the plane to begin with. The only intention is to delay Indian procurement and so degrade Indian capability.

Should we care who French sell to?

Unfortunately Indian leaders are foolish. There must be a deadline for everything. Time has come to respect deadlines.

There is a deadline 31sth March 2016 "Current financial year"

 

[smestarz]

Dassault engineers, a small compagny among beast like Lookeed, Boeing, Sukhoi.... are skilled enough, even if they are few (because small compagny, and they are french ! too handicaped...), to studied a top class fighter. So top that IAF, after a very strong field test, said it is the best with EF.
And India's team is not alone.... Switzerland make the same rank, but Rafale clearly first.

Not so bad for a small compagny, with few french stupid engineers.

IAF felt that as per its needs Rafale and Eurofighter matched them. We already have the best plane (Su-30 MKI)
Since the IAF wanted something in the "medium" category.
1. Gripen and F-16 did not fit the bill because they are single engined
2. MiG-35 was not in production and IAF wanted a mature plane. Also we use MiG-29 which were upgraded to MiG-29 UPG so making these close to MiG-35
3. F/A-18 was a mature plane but then it came with all the various treaties to be signed LSA, CISMOA etc

Rafale and Eurofighter made the most points, BUT YES, Point to be stressed is that Rafale was not declared as the best plane, IT WAS ONLY CONSIDERED TO HAVE LOWEST BIDDER FROM THE TWO SHORT LISTED.
Lowest bidder and not the best.. there is difference.

Swiss leaked reports, not sure if they are genuine or not, but the result? Swiss ordered Gripen !! Makes on wonder how genuine the swiss report was.

 

[smestarz]

I keep telling you to stop bitching, the reason why MRCA process had to be cancelled was because fo Dassalt having a lot of hidden costs and the total cost of 126 fighters was coming to around 28-30 billion $. Again you little turd, don't come around talking like you know shit, we have been following this deal since the last 8 years and more. Hence the finally the PM had to reduce the figure to 36, even now you bitches are cribbing about price. I have always said, one can always rely on Dassult to fuck up a virtually done deal.

Dassault had a lot of hidden costs, now here are some facts abt this particular IGA/MoU

1. as per DM of India the best price that India can give is abt Rs 65000 crore which in a way comes to 9.7 billion for 36 planes thus in a way US$ 270 per plane,
2. Dassault is asking for 30% more, which comes to roughly 12.61 billion or US$ 350 million a plane,
3. This price includes spares, and maintenance for 40 years. and of course weapons

Now these 350 million a plane are supposed to be the price that France sells to AdlA , So for 126 planes for MMRCA it would come to MINIMUM US$ 44 billion dollars, Some believed that the total MMRCA deal would come to US$ 12 billlion, lol

Now this no 44 billion has the same ToT as requested 50%, Of these 36 planes are in flyway condition, and as per Dassault making in India would ramp up the cost, (cost of production, cost of setting up lines, Transfer of some shitty tech) that would easily take the deal close to US$ 50 billion for 126 planes,. Roughly coming to US$ 400 million a plane.for 40 years of service and maintenance.

Even what India wants is Rs 270 per plane, so the min price that would have ever come (if dassault accepts this price which they say is less) US$ 34 billion without any lines in india, or make in india or without any ToT

Now compare the earlier figure touted by many Rafail experts 10-12 billion dollars to this new wonderful figure (min 34 and max 50 billion)

Still people think we should sign the deal?
In this price, we can buy entire Sukhoi corp, incl of Tech and planes etc, and start supplying the world with Su-35S and PAKFA..

 

[BON PLAN]

I think French are only playing with india. There is no intention to sell, only to delay.

Unfortunately IAF leadership is ignorant of this.

Why? The interest od Dassault and french govt is to sell Rafale. Of course.
It cost to Dassault to send high rank persons in india every 15 days.

 

[BON PLAN]

India may be saved by Russians, again.

The French should not be trusted.

India's top management don't need to rely too much on one supplier.
You are even over equipped with russian weapons.

During Kargil we gave you all the key to help you and Israeli's specialist to implement Mirage 2000. This is a proof.

 

[BON PLAN]

Tejas

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.8[citation needed](2,205 km/h) for FOC version;[163] Mach 1.6 (2,000 km/h) for IOC version;[164][165]
• Range: 3,000 km[163] (1,620 nmi, 1,864 mi) . Both ferry/empty range and loaded range will increase with drop-tank albeit at the cost of a few bombs.
• Combat radius: 500 km[166] (270 nmi, 311 mi)
• Ferry range: 1,700 km[166] (1,056 mi)
• Service ceiling: 15,240 m[158] (50,000 ft)
• Wing loading: 247 kg/m² (50.7 lb/ft²)

Thrust/weight: 1.07[158]
.........................................................:blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

I just show how my friend Spestarz made adaptative answers.

 

[BON PLAN]

IAF felt that as per its needs Rafale and Eurofighter matched them. We already have the best plane (Su-30 MKI)
Since the IAF wanted something in the "medium" category.
1. Gripen and F-16 did not fit the bill because they are single engined
2. MiG-35 was not in production and IAF wanted a mature plane. Also we use MiG-29 which were upgraded to MiG-29 UPG so making these close to MiG-35
3. F/A-18 was a mature plane but then it came with all the various treaties to be signed LSA, CISMOA etc

Rafale and Eurofighter made the most points, BUT YES, Point to be stressed is that Rafale was not declared as the best plane, IT WAS ONLY CONSIDERED TO HAVE LOWEST BIDDER FROM THE TWO SHORT LISTED.
Lowest bidder and not the best.. there is difference.

Swiss leaked reports, not sure if they are genuine or not, but the result? Swiss ordered Gripen !! Makes on wonder how genuine the swiss report was.

Tss Tss Tss.
Some another false affirmations.my dear Smestarz.

No request in the MMRCA of twin engine. If Gripen is indeed very light, a F16 bk60 has a very powerfull engine, largely enough for that purpose.

YES, You're right on L1. EF and Rafale were declared OK, and Rafale win on L1.

The reality is that all the other planes FAILED to reach perf needed. Hot temperature and high altitude runaway test perf were it seems very hard to obtain or unreachable for some plane (SH 18 and F16 ie). As time to replace engine for exemple.

 

[BON PLAN]

Dassault had a lot of hidden costs, now here are some facts abt this particular IGA/MoU

1. as per DM of India the best price that India can give is abt Rs 65000 crore which in a way comes to 9.7 billion for 36 planes thus in a way US$ 270 per plane,
2. Dassault is asking for 30% more, which comes to roughly 12.61 billion or US$ 350 million a plane,
3. This price includes spares, and maintenance for 40 years. and of course weapons

Now these 350 million a plane are supposed to be the price that France sells to AdlA , So for 126 planes for MMRCA it would come to MINIMUM US$ 44 billion dollars, Some believed that the total MMRCA deal would come to US$ 12 billlion, lol

Now this no 44 billion has the same ToT as requested 50%, Of these 36 planes are in flyway condition, and as per Dassault making in India would ramp up the cost, (cost of production, cost of setting up lines, Transfer of some shitty tech) that would easily take the deal close to US$ 50 billion for 126 planes,. Roughly coming to US$ 400 million a plane.for 40 years of service and maintenance.

Even what India wants is Rs 270 per plane, so the min price that would have ever come (if dassault accepts this price which they say is less) US$ 34 billion without any lines in india, or make in india or without any ToT

Now compare the earlier figure touted by many Rafail experts 10-12 billion dollars to this new wonderful figure (min 34 and max 50 billion)

Still people think we should sign the deal?
In this price, we can buy entire Sukhoi corp, incl of Tech and planes etc, and start supplying the world with Su-35S and PAKFA..

Here are the prices given to the French Senate for 2015 :
- Rafale B 73 M€ TTC (TTC = with taxes. without taxe, it is nearly the price in $)
- Rafale C 68 M€ TTC ( "" )
- Rafale M 78 M€ TTC ( "" )

Without support, training, weapons, spares, air base implementation, test bench, ToT (Even if it is an aff the shelf sell, there is ToT ...), Offset....

You have to add all of that for India + customer tuning (new laser pod, helmet (Or taking the one Qatar choose... surely not Isaeli's) + adaptation of your local medium range missile + ???