India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[sasum]

Full scare wars between Pak and India were before they had nuke.

Yes, see it in this context. Full-scale war between Indo-Pak no more viable now that they possess nukes. If either side suffers massive & unacceptable damage, nukes will surely fly to settle scores. Everything is fair in love & war.

 

[garg_bharat]

Full scare wars between Pak and India were before they had nuke.

War has not become outdated due to nukes. It has only gone more into nonconventional category.

Pakistan is an irrational actor and we do not trust it. We think an attack from pakistan is still possible.

 

[garg_bharat]

Yes, see it in this context. Full-scale war between Indo-Pak no more viable now that they possess nukes. If either side suffers massive & unacceptable damage, nukes will surely fly to settle scores. Everything is fair in love & war.

I disagree with you. I have doubts anybody in strategic community can assure Pakistani behaviour.

Wars do happen not due to viability but because of ambitions.

Kargil was militarily unviable but happened nonetheless.

I am very troubled with the faulty perception about nukes.

 

[BON PLAN]

Small correction

Iaf did not say it is the best

What iaf said was that rafale & EF met highest no of iaf parameters out of the six contenders

There are more than those 6 contenders in real world

Also neither rafale nor Ed nor any of the six contenders met all evaluation parameters.of iaf

How do you called one thing which meet the maximum parameters? The winner.

 

[BON PLAN]

France did not really help, it was all thanks to Isarel and ADA. By the way, we did ask help on Tejas and we paid for it, and Dasault contribution, Zip....

without Dassault keys on the system.... it will take months instead of days.

What contribution to Tejas? If you paid that means ther was a contract, and if there was a contract DA respect it. If not court. Is there a court procedure? NO. so no problem.

 

[BON PLAN]

Was it not cheaper for you to send him on vacation to some nice Mediteranean Island? Many members had forecasted that Rafale would not be signed . But then you were confident that IAF top brass have managed to fix the deal and ensure the signing with their unusual Statements and justifications in press.
Wat Parrikar did has in a way has slapped the IAF across its face and told them BEHAVE ..

On some others forum, with no worst personns than here, it is said a good news is arriving....

 

[BON PLAN]

Since it is export, there is no VAT right, you know it correct? How much is the VAT % in France I understand it should be close to 20%. 1 US$ roughly equals € 0.91 so that is around 10% and not 20% so if you remove the VAT, the price in dollars should still be lower.. this is just academic...

Flyway cost as per what you say (lets accept it for a moment) US$ 68 m. Spares... almost US$ 68 mn for 20 yeas,
Based on the calculation done yesterday, the unit flying cost you put is 68 million but the total package being offered to India is 5 times this price..spares for 20 years is same as price of a plane. so what are the other 300% coming to? Unlimited supply for Missiles and bombs?

I answerd as traducing with VAT price in euro in extra VAT price in dollars.
In france VAT is 20%.
1 euro = 1.1 $

so.... just read and give some more time to your little brain do digest these small informations (seems you are suffering from over memory failure).

 

[BON PLAN]

India needs to seriously rethink MMRCA situation and Rafale. First, France and Russia are exploiting India's tough situation and bilking every penny (rupee and paisa) out of India in order to fix their dilapidated economy. If India acquires only 36 Rafale in next six –ten years (if lucky) for $7-10 billion, how it is going to solve Indian jet crisis? Dussault is a small time operator and makes money by selling a few jets with incredibly large margin of profit. They do not (and not capable of) want to make 100s of jets for India. They are French and do not know how to work hard and mass produce, India needs hundreds of fighter jets and with this kind of price it will go bankrupt, at least little money for other projects. USA is ready to (and capable of) help India because of its China problem. If Boeing builds F/A-18 or F/A-18E/F in India, India can get Boeing to modify the jet according to IAF's requirement and get the source codes of the software and modify.

At a price of about ~$50 million per jet; India will be able to order at least 200 jets for the price of about 36 Rafales. These are combat proven jets and every US aircraft carrier uses only these jets for combat whereas, Rafale, Su35, Typhoon have never been to any serious combat except for chasing some terrorists with AK-47 in Africa not any Air Force. Thus, why F/A-18 Super Hornets will not be enough for IAF's mission to defend against Pak and China baffles me. India will be foolish not to take advantage of the Boeing offer and solve its jet problem for pennies and long term that will allow India to use leftover funds in developing Tejas MK1A/MKII as well as FGFA with Russia. Second these jets are proven for aircraft carrier like no other jet in the world. Why to waste money on unproven jets that look good on paper and from countries that are snobby and difficult to deal with Shylocks and behave like sharks?

US fighter maker will never give you source code. It's just impossible due to US rules.

Main rate of production of Mirage 2000 was 33/year. Not so bad.
Max rate of Rafale production was 16/year, and actally 11 only because AdlA can't budgetary speaking taking more. In 2018 it will be 33/year. You say small?
Dassault is an agile tiger
HAL is a loud elephant.

And SH18 is a pathetic in flight fighter. Just better than F35. Far away EF, Gripen, F16, Rafale, SU MKI, ....

 

[BON PLAN]

War has not become outdated due to nukes. It has only gone more into nonconventional category.

Pakistan is an irrational actor and we do not trust it. We think an attack from pakistan is still possible.

Indeed. After North Korea, I think Pak may be a fool player.

 

[Immanuel]

US fighter maker will never give you source code. It's just impossible due to US rules.

Main rate of production of Mirage 2000 was 33/year. Not so bad.
Max rate of Rafale production was 16/year, and actally 11 only because AdlA can't budgetary speaking taking more. In 2018 it will be 33/year. You say small?
Dassault is an agile tiger
HAL is a loud elephant.

And SH18 is a pathetic in flight fighter. Just better than F35. Far away EF, Gripen, F16, Rafale, SU MKI, ....

Super Hornet is one of the most reliable fighters in the world with the best operational AESA on any 4.5 gen aircraft and EW suite off the shelf, the Growler will run circles around the Rafale any day. It's aerial performance will be better with GE F414 EPE. It's far cheaper to acquire and operate than the Rafale. Hence again a better buy than the Rafale. Off the shelf it can deploy the deadliest weapons in US arsenal, hence its a more usable aircraft. Acquiring it has the added advantage of having engine commonality with the LCA MK-2 again billions saved over years. The Growler remains the only fighter to have a certified BVR A2A kill on the Raptor.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

@smestarz ---it is Rafale and not Rafail. Please use right word!

 

[BON PLAN]

Super Hornet is one of the most reliable fighters in the world with the best operational AESA on any 4.5 gen aircraft and EW suite off the shelf, the Growler will run circles around the Rafale any day. It's aerial performance will be better with GE F414 EPE. It's far cheaper to acquire and operate than the Rafale. Hence again a better buy than the Rafale. Off the shelf it can deploy the deadliest weapons in US arsenal, hence its a more usable aircraft. Acquiring it has the added advantage of having engine commonality with the LCA MK-2 again billions saved over years. The Growler remains the only fighter to have a certified BVR A2A kill on the Raptor.

Nice AESA radar : YES
Nice reliability : YES
Nice range of weapons : YES
Nice handling caracteristics : NO. Rafale run circles around this whale.
Stealthy aspect : largely inferior to Rafale (just see difference in size...). So a stealthier plane need a smaller radar to do same job.
Do you think US will give you Growler : NEVER ! You're not a narrow ally as Australia.....

 

[BON PLAN]

@smestarz ---it is Rafale and not Rafail. Please use right word!

Thanks .... .

 

[The Last Stand]

@smestarz ---it is Rafale and not Rafail. Please use right word!

He's probably using it on purpose. Ra-FAIL.

:|

 

[BON PLAN]

He's probably using it on purpose. Ra-FAIL.

:|

Thank you for your explanation..... but we are not idiot Guy !!!

 

[smestarz]

without Dassault keys on the system.... it will take months instead of days.

What contribution to Tejas? If you paid that means ther was a contract, and if there was a contract DA respect it. If not court. Is there a court procedure? NO. so no problem.

The only french help was the key, The french did not try to help with the targeting pods etc.. some friends

 

[smestarz]

without Dassault keys on the system.... it will take months instead of days.

What contribution to Tejas? If you paid that means ther was a contract, and if there was a contract DA respect it. If not court. Is there a court procedure? NO. so no problem.

Well Dassault did not contribute to development at all. Rather seems that Dassault engineers were incompetent, or with instructions not to really help with development.
The contract is for period and work, But apparently as I said Dassault staff were incompetent, Else Dassault might be saying "we contributed on Tejas"

 

[smestarz]

I answerd as traducing with VAT price in euro in extra VAT price in dollars.
In france VAT is 20%.
1 euro = 1.1 $

so.... just read and give some more time to your little brain do digest these small informations (seems you are suffering from over memory failure).

I did give you abt the pricing fr plane, when you said the fly off was 78 million a plane and so 20% less VAT it would be roughly 15 million per plane less... VAT is there is product is sold to france, for exports thre is no VAT, correct?

 

[smestarz]

@smestarz ---it is Rafale and not Rafail. Please use right word!

Sadly it is failing, and failing, and its proven only against countiies not having air defence.
Sadly you dont seem to warn people who are abusing, but Rafail does concern you?

 

[smestarz]

Nice AESA radar : YES
Nice reliability : YES
Nice range of weapons : YES
Nice handling caracteristics : NO. Rafale run circles around this whale.
Stealthy aspect : largely inferior to Rafale (just see difference in size...). So a stealthier plane need a smaller radar to do same job.
Do you think US will give you Growler : NEVER ! You're not a narrow ally as Australia.....

Has Rafale ever been in dogfight vs SH-18 ?
The important thing is that with its weapons and avionics, it does not really need to do all the fancy rolls etc. USE the AESA and fire its longer ranged AMRAAM, and Rafale is Rafail... job done.
IF there is a knife fighter, and I have a gun, I will use the gun, Why would I throw the gun and be fair and use a knife? Sounds very french