India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

LETHALFORCE

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Why should India back out?
This is a defensive weapon
Nobody has anything else similar
This will upset balance of power against Pakistan which US doesn't want
If US hates Russia so much why don't they pressure Saudis to kick them out of OPEC?
Just trying to save pak imo
China has it and us never pressured them or NATO ally turkey


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ezsasa

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Why should India back out?
This is a defensive weapon
Nobody has anything else similar
This will upset balance of power against Pakistan which US doesn't want
If US hates Russia so much why don't they pressure Saudis to kick them out of OPEC?
Just trying to save pak imo
China has it and us never pressured them or NATO ally turkey


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Americans are threatening turkey too, hence the escalation from turkey regarding s-500 manufacturing(which could also be election rhetoric).
 

binayak95

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Americans are threatening turkey too, hence the escalation from turkey regarding s-500 manufacturing(which could also be election rhetoric).
most definitively election rhetoric. Erdogan is trying to show himself as a toughman.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Turkey says they are getting it do not care about American reaction.very bold for a NATO ally?


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Kalki_2018

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They are trying to play Russia against US. Since they control access to black sea. If Putin and Trump join hands the erdo-gandu is fucked.
 

Vinod DX9

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S-400 is the deal I'm against. Why we do need S-400? Just for psychological advantages? Our BMDS is better than 40N6 series. And for anti fighter aircrafts role we can look othes.David Sling is overall a better option. Even we can go with US for a joint project. S-400 will affect desi project.
 

indiazain

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Why should India back out?r
This will upset balance of power against Pakistan which US doesn't want
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Currently also their is a massive mismatch in power between Pakistan and India,nobody cares about Pakistan...what the US is worried about is how these systems will make them less of a super power and will bring them to the negotiating table without a whole lot of bargaining power..think of a hypothetical situation example : North Korea has the S400...
 

Kshithij

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Turkey says they are getting it do not care about American reaction.very bold for a NATO ally?


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Turkey is really pissed off after the attempted coup. But Turkey has no leverage against USA or western countries and the western countries are now ruining Turkish economy by pulling out investment.

Erdogan is unwilling to surrender and is making noises. He doesn't mind being kicked out of NATO as he is already claiming that West is putting sanctions on their weapons sales towards Turkey and hence there is nothing to lose

They are trying to play Russia against US. Since they control access to black sea. If Putin and Trump join hands the erdo-gandu is fucked.
They just hate USA. Turkey hates Russia too but hates it less than USA. USA is now trying to bring down Russian influence as USA economy is failing and they want to maintain their economy by maintaining influence and dependency. So, USA and Russia are unlikely to tag team

S-400 is the deal I'm against. Why we do need S-400? Just for psychological advantages? Our BMDS is better than 40N6 series. And for anti fighter aircrafts role we can look othes.David Sling is overall a better option. Even we can go with US for a joint project. S-400 will affect desi project.
S400 is not BMD but primarily a SAM and BMD is secondary role. David Sling or Arrow was refused by USA when India asked for its sale. Also, S400 will likely involve ToT for missile which can then be used in our XR SAM
 

bhramos

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India-Russia may have found a way to bypass US Sanctions on the S-400 Missile Deal

 

bhramos

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Effects of INDIA going for S400

USA is trying it's every tactic moral or immoral to armtwist India

Now THOMSON REUTERS SURVEY SAYS INDIA NOT SAFE FOR WOMEN

Time to ban offices of TR for some days and give them a warning ...u will see another survey glorifying INDIA in no time

INDIA must behave like a WORLD POWER and send a message what happens when you mess

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156748748590798&id=102527030797

 

indus

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US offering THAAD to dissuade India from buying S400. Its all abt US arms lobby, nothing else.
US may offer air defence system to block S-400 missile deal with Russia
By Pranab Dhal Samanta, ET Bureau | Updated: Jun 27, 2018, 10.32 AM IST


India has argued that its S-400 deal with Russia was in the works before the US started debating the subject. In any event, it will predate the CAATSA if and when it’s written into law.
NEW DELHI: The United States may try to persuade India to consider its ballistic missile defence options in an attempt to keep it from pressing ahead with the S-400 deal with Russia.

ET has learnt that the US could make ballistic missile defence an agenda point in the upcoming Indo-US 2+2 dialogue on July 6 for which external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman will be in Washington.

The likely option on the table would be the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system. It is a sophisticated missile defence system which is believed to be particularly effective against long-range missiles.


The S-400 missile defence system is, however, said to be effective against a larger array of aerial attacks, particularly fighter aircraft such as the F-18s and F-35s. The latest version of the Russian made S-400 has a longer range but the jury is out on whether it’s more effective than the THAAD against intermediate range and intercontinental ballistic missile systems.

ET has gathered that India’s proposed S-400 purchase from Russia has prompted a reassessment within Trump administration on whether India would have gone ahead with the nearly Rs 39,000-crore deal with Russia had the US moved faster with the THAAD offer.





Now, the S-400 deal has become a politically sensitive issue with the US. The US Congress is debating a Bill to allow for sanctions against Russian defence entities which could cover entities in recipient nations as well.

Given India’s strong defence partnership with Russia, the Trump administration, through secretary of defence James Mattis, has pitched for a waiver for countries such as India on the condition that it progressively reduce its military dependency on Russia.

The Congress has still not provided satisfactory relief despite hectic lobbying within Washington. The problem is compounded by the fact that the Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) covers the S-400 system in the category of technologically sophisticated equipment which must be specifically targeted for this purpose.

India has argued that its S-400 deal with Russia was in the works before the US started debating the subject. In any event, it will predate the CAATSA if and when it’s written into law.

Besides, people close to the negotiations told ET, it is unreasonable for US to expect India to decouple its defence relationship with Russia, which has been a proven reliable partner through several conflicts.

The US, senior government officials said, must appreciate that unlike many of the other countries which purchase defence equipment from Russia, India does not target Russian armament against American interests and will not do so in future.

India is likely to elaborate on these lines at the inaugural 2+2 dialogue between the foreign and defence ministers of the two countries, while the US might urge India to first exhaust options the American industry can offer.
 

Vinod DX9

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India is moving fast to acquire S-400 system
My question:
1) Why we need them even, if we buy 40N6E3, then isn't our own BMDS better?
2) If we procure 48N6E3 then can they really take on stealth jets?
 

Hari Sud

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India -US friendly relations are being rocked.

Do not blame Trump for that. Do not blame India either and for that reason Russia also. The Democratic Party in US was not happy with Trump election in 2016. In his previous utterances, Trump had sounded a bit more conciliatory to Russia and would sit down with Putin to sort out Ukrainian mess. Even here Russia had less to blame. It was US enthusiasm to reach Russian border in Europe in the past 20 years was to blame. A democratic coup was staged and pro Russian but elected President of Ukraine was removed and a pro American person was installed as a president. Angered Russia took control of Russian Crimean peninsula and moved to grab Russian speaking area in Ukraine. What happened next in last five years is a low intensity war in Ukraine which US supporters have mostly lost.

Now enter candidate Trump for US elections and his little conciliatory views on Russia. Finally Trump won 2016 elections which angered the Democratic Party. To prevent Trump from making any deals with Russia, internally a high powered enquiry was instituted under a former FBI Director Mueller to enquiry about Russian interference in elections and a major needless drama was instituted to malign Trump but it is still inconclusive. Externally Russia was needlessly sanctioned from conducting business and a law - CAATSA was enacted which forbade countries who undertake any major military purchases from Russia. India was included in this extension of US domestic law extension. India can ignore it but all commercial banks who undertake business transactions worldwide will be forbidden to do business with US. A very big stumbling block. It could be a relationship breaker. No amount of pleading with US will work or has worked.

Immediate cause of US and India friction is Indian desire to safeguard its skies from hostile missiles and aircrafts coming from Pakistan or China. Although it is not 100% but as close to 90% defence system for a price of $5 billion. No other missile defence including American comes even close. India wants this missile defence system for sure.

All behind the scene discussions with US have not worked. Even US Parliamentary delegation visiting India recently stuck to the same view. US had proposed 2+2 ministerial level discussions with India but it has been postponed twice. The sticking point is Russian missile defence system S-400 purchases.

Now India may buy S-400 system from Russia and pay under the table deal without Indian banking system being affected. But angered US will make India a scapegoat and sanction some other way. Future deals with Russia on helicopters or naval submarines etc will be impacted.

This issue is difficult to fix unless US blinks. If India blinks then all future deals with Russia will be impacted.

Alternatively US Patriot system or highly secretive THAAD systems are not as good. God knows how many pacts US would like India to sign with them before they release the basics of the system to India for evaluation purposes. Russians are all ready to sign and deliver without any more pacts or agreements.

So an impass has been reached. It is difficult to break. Any solution require US Parliamentary approval, which will not be forthcoming.

So here we are with a India -US relations dead in water in the middle of 2018.
 

AmoghaVarsha

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US is in no position to dictate terms. India has other weapons suppliers but US doesnot have another India market.

Good that this has happened before we bought too many US tins.

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Illusive

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There is no particular single reason for US to block sale of s400.

US Russia relations have detoriated fast because of syria. The move is trying to hit the Russian MIC, but why just s400? Cause it a strategic asset like nukes. US doctrine relies heavily on air superiority. Simply put s400 is a lethal sam system, the more countries have it the less likely those countries would be toeing US lines.

But that's just 1 aspect, other would be wanting India to purchase their own systems , so they get the market and also US won't share the TOT, plus like all US purchases it has strings attached where it will just block sale of the system or the spares when you don't toe their line.

Also US wants India to pick a side so that they can trust India to take the relations to the next level. It's better for India to be not an ally of US as we have seen already what that word means to them.

Lastly, India is a future threat for US in the game of geo politics. It's being much more proactive this time as it was sleeping when China were making the same strides. India with a big economy will try to spread it's influence around the region. A big no no for them.

So this s400 sanction threat is stand for US, a last ditch attempt of a dying superpower.
 

spikey360

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I say we buy the S-400. Order 10-12 more, if feasible.
Cook up a deal with the Chinese to get some Rinminbi reserves, and buy millions, if not billions of barrels of Iranian oil, while it is dirt cheap.

To hell with this hedonistic, country of called JewSA.
 

Kshithij

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There is no particular single reason for US to block sale of s400.

US Russia relations have detoriated fast because of syria. The move is trying to hit the Russian MIC, but why just s400? Cause it a strategic asset like nukes. US doctrine relies heavily on air superiority. Simply put s400 is a lethal sam system, the more countries have it the less likely those countries would be toeing US lines.

But that's just 1 aspect, other would be wanting India to purchase their own systems , so they get the market and also US won't share the TOT, plus like all US purchases it has strings attached where it will just block sale of the system or the spares when you don't toe their line.

Also US wants India to pick a side so that they can trust India to take the relations to the next level. It's better for India to be not an ally of US as we have seen already what that word means to them.

Lastly, India is a future threat for US in the game of geo politics. It's being much more proactive this time as it was sleeping when China were making the same strides. India with a big economy will try to spread it's influence around the region. A big no no for them.

So this s400 sanction threat is stand for US, a last ditch attempt of a dying superpower.
There is one more reason - USA economy is failing fast and it needs to create web of dependency around the world to survive.

But, India has no reason to care for USA's demands. If shouting alone could get things done, then everyone would simply be shouting. If USA wants India to buy its arms, it has to offer significant ToT. Vague promise for some arbitrary future ''assistance" is not enough. This should be conveyed to USA in no uncertain terms
 

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