US congress gives waiver to India from sanctions ; India can now buy S 400

Armand2REP

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India has always been able to buy S-400, the CAATSA passed last year would only restrict India's access to US weapons if they went ahead with it. It is India that is almost single handedly keeping Russia's arms industry afloat and if they give India a waiver the entire basis of CAATSA will be defeated, not to mention making them look like total hypocrites on Turkey.
 

Jameson Emoni

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India has always been able to buy S-400, the CAATSA passed last year would only restrict India's access to US weapons if they went ahead with it. It is India that is almost single handedly keeping Russia's arms industry afloat and if they give India a waiver the entire basis of CAATSA will be defeated, not to mention making them look like total hypocrites on Turkey.
China is buying S-400 from Russia as well. Apart from that, China also buys jet engines from Russia for its military aircraft. So, using your logic, it is not fair to India if US does not sanction China.
 
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Armand2REP

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China is buying S-400 from Russia as well. Apart from that, China also buys jet engines from Russia for its military aircraft. So, using your logic, it is not fair to India if US does not sanction China.
The China deal for S-400 was signed in 2014 which pre-dates CAATSA by 3 years. It is not retroactive.
 

Jameson Emoni

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The China deal for S-400 was signed in 2014 which pre-dates CAATSA by 3 years. It is not retroactive.
India will do whatever it thinks is needed to promote its security. That decision will be taken in New Delhi. That is the reality. So there is no point wasting our (yours and mine) energy debating merits of CAATSA with respect to India.

Having said that, the gist of your argument was that India was keeping Russian MIC afloat. This is absurd. If what you are saying were true, India would have tremendous influence over Russia which is not the case. As recent developments have shown, Russia gives its China relation the highest priority.
 

arya

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We should buy only helicopters and transport aircraft from US. We should not buy any fighter jet from US.

India can buy many things from USA , i think we should talk for 15 no F35 or F22 , We have to provide more power to indian navy , we can buy usa warships , destroyers, frigates , new or using by USA .

India can take more things for Navy at low rate .
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

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India has always been able to buy S-400, the CAATSA passed last year would only restrict India's access to US weapons if they went ahead with it. It is India that is almost single handedly keeping Russia's arms industry afloat and if they give India a waiver the entire basis of CAATSA will be defeated, not to mention making them look like total hypocrites on Turkey.
The reality is that India has no deep military relation with USA. India imports only simple technology items like transport planes, helicopter, howitzers etc which don't have much significance.

Russia is quite rich country and is currently energy superpower. It has greater clout than countries like Saudi Arabia as Russia exports oil, gas and coal which far exceeds that of entire Saudi and its friends' production. Russia does not need Indian arms deals.

CAATSA is specifically aimed at NATO allies like Turkey who are buying S400 without leaving NATO.
 

Armand2REP

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The specific intention of CAATSA is to kill the Russian arms industry as punishment for its annexation of Crimea. The fact that NATO, aside from France, is reliant on American arms dealers gives it more weight in NATO but it is a global policy. If a country violates CAATSA there is no economic sanctions to be applied, it only limits that nation's access to US weapons.

I think it is good if India says the hell with America and buys the S-400. Don't let them dictate terms to you. They said we can't export Scalp to Egypt and we say the hell with them, we will replace your stupid computer chip and sell them anyway.
 

nongaddarliberal

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The specific intention of CAATSA is to kill the Russian arms industry as punishment for its annexation of Crimea. The fact that NATO, aside from France, is reliant on American arms dealers gives it more weight in NATO but it is a global policy. If a country violates CAATSA there is no economic sanctions to be applied, it only limits that nation's access to US weapons.

I think it is good if India says the hell with America and buys the S-400. Don't let them dictate terms to you. They said we can't export Scalp to Egypt and we say the hell with them, we will replace your stupid computer chip and sell them anyway.
If India fell under CAATSCA, the Americans know that they will lose Indian partnership for a long time with no further military contracts coming their way. It's a pragmatic decision they made.
 

Armand2REP

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If India fell under CAATSCA, the Americans know that they will lose Indian partnership for a long time with no further military contracts coming their way. It's a pragmatic decision they made.
I agree it would be stupid for them to turn their back on India as it is the major counterweight to China, but it also makes their Russian policy look weak if they cave and then all of the countries will demand exemptions. It will be like the dam opening up making the legislation useless. The US doesn't want India to play sides anymore, they want you to choose, America or Russia.
 

hit&run

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I agree it would be stupid for them to turn their back on India as it is the major counterweight to China, but it also makes their Russian policy look weak if they cave and then all of the countries will demand exemptions. It will be like the dam opening up making the legislation useless. The US doesn't want India to play sides anymore, they want you to choose, America or Russia.
That is a bullshit. It is EU including France (USA Allies) weakening American policy towards Russia by pimping Russia with investments and hefty energy contract. Trump publically denounced Nato and allies for the same reason.

Its called running with hare and hunting with hounds isn't it?


France signs contracts for €1bn direct investment to Russia
https://www.rt.com/business-projects/427704-france-signs-contracts-with-russia/
 

nongaddarliberal

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I agree it would be stupid for them to turn their back on India as it is the major counterweight to China, but it also makes their Russian policy look weak if they cave and then all of the countries will demand exemptions. It will be like the dam opening up making the legislation useless. The US doesn't want India to play sides anymore, they want you to choose, America or Russia.
Well, the Americans have put themselves in this conundrum due to their bogus Russiagate domestic politics. Either they go through with it and alienate a lot of countries that import weapons from Russia, or they make exceptions and appear weak. No one made them go down this road. They have mixed up domestic politics with foreign policy and will pay for it.
 

Armand2REP

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That is a bullshit. It is EU including France (USA Allies) weakening American policy towards Russia by pimping Russia with investments and hefty energy contract. Trump publically denounced Nato and allies for the same reason.

Its called running with hare and hunting with hounds isn't it?


France signs contracts for €1bn direct investment to Russia
https://www.rt.com/business-projects/427704-france-signs-contracts-with-russia/
This deal isn't covered by current sanctions but it could be at any point. France is getting tired of US sanctions messing up our deals. It is actually a good thing as we now have every reason to replace them with alternative suppliers making us less dependent and more sovereign.
 

hit&run

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This deal isn't covered by current sanctions but it could be at any point. France is getting tired of US sanctions messing up our deals. It is actually a good thing as we now have every reason to replace them with alternative suppliers making us less dependent and more sovereign.
Exactly my point. Running with Hare and Hunting with hounds.

It is so imprudent to blame USA for a weak Russian policy when the sanctions USA has been trying to impose are circumvented by its allies.

Deals France is making with Russia have materialized after a certain period of negotiations and deliberations. Many such deals are done by Germany. Ironically both were at the forefront of opposing Russia or probably will endure the brunt if Russia invades further west.

As far as Indian waiver is the concern then it has no bearing on their policy vis a vis Russia or Turkey. At least USA has taken a moral stand on Creamia and imposed sanctions for the security of Europe. France or anyone else has no right to be judgemental about their transactions with India.
 

Armand2REP

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Exactly my point. Running with Hare and Hunting with hounds.

It is so imprudent to blame USA for a weak Russian policy when the sanctions USA has been trying to impose are circumvented by its allies.

Deals France is making with Russia have materialized after a certain period of negotiations and deliberations. Many such deals are done by Germany. Ironically both were at the forefront of opposing Russia or probably will endure the brunt if Russia invades further west.

As far as Indian waiver is the concern then it has no bearing on their policy vis a vis Russia or Turkey. At least USA has taken a moral stand on Creamia and imposed sanctions for the security of Europe. France or anyone else has no right to be judgemental about their transactions with India.
It is a US policy, not that of the EU. Trump is suffering from madcow sanctions disease. It is all well and good, we will make ourselves sanction proof in the coming months and years and will be stronger for it. We are fully capable of making everything we import from them, it is just more cost efficient with their economies of scale to buy it from them so it is just an inconvenience to replace.
 

Jameson Emoni

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And China is already facing the sanctions.
......30chars.......................


But before that the babus want their kids to have admission in harvard or some job placement in lavish offices near Chicago.
Both China and US have imposed tariffs on each other's imports but China is not facing any real sanctions. I believe China is the largest recipient of US investment. There are some export restrictions related to sensitive technologies that apply to China. However, China has figured out a way to circumvent that; It is called industrial espionage. China has powerful supporters in the US who have ensured that average American never finds out about China's theft of US technologies.
 

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A top Pentagon official cautioned India that there are no guarantee for a special waiver from US sanctions if it buys new weapons platforms from Russia.
 

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