India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

[prohumanity]

Ajit Doval is right..China is way ahead of India ..both economically and militarily...And also..China has a cohesive, disciplined public ....Indians keep fighting among themselves..because of caste, religion, region and so on...Indian
politicians are selfish and greedy and want power at any cost...How can you compete with China ?
Indians need to stop fighting and dedicate themselves to the nation....As for S400, India should get them...India should get any type of weapon for any country which helps to defend itself.
I don't think China wants to be India's enemy unless India pokes them in their a*ss and unnecessarily provoke them.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

Please, this is a nonsense narrative, hosting Tibet Govt. in exile as a reason is one of many reasons. To think China has anything but destabilizing desires for India is stupidity. IAF gears itself for a two front war, IA does too, IN is pushing for heavy capability to take the war to China when needed. Chinese are sitting all over POK, they are actively helping in Paki strengthening efforts both militarily and economically far more than any other country right now. Weapons like NASR, Babur are essentially repainted Chinese shit. China also supports several militancies in NE. The several surgical strikes in Myanmar also had several active Chinese intel officers who were killed and our men found high end Chinese eves dropping & listening gear, they had a small scale listening post. Such kit was intrumental in tracking & ambushing the patrol that killed 18 ghataks.

If India were to make a full scale frontal assault anywhere in POK today, they'll probably run into joint PLA & Pak teams. Heck PLA intel and some SF teams are active as advisors in POK.

So don't peddle things which aren't true, fact is there is a deep Master-Slave relation between Chi-Pak and in any full scale conflict with Pak you'll probably have the Chinks doing the overall strategy and command while they get the beggars to fight.

Yep, he seems to have been in coma for past several decades to have missed China's hegemonic ambitions not just against India but against other Asian countries as well.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

Ajit Doval is right..China is way ahead of India ..both economically and militarily...And also..China has a cohesive, disciplined public ....Indians keep fighting among themselves..because of caste, religion, region and so on...Indian
politicians are selfish and greedy and want power at any cost...How can you compete with China ?
Indians need to stop fighting and dedicate themselves to the nation....As for S400, India should get them...India should get any type of weapon for any country which helps to defend itself.
I don't think China wants to be India's enemy unless India pokes them in their a*ss and unnecessarily provoke them.

I think you missed the point Ajit Doval was trying to make. He identified key vulnerabilities in China that India would exploit if a conflict were to flare up between India and China.

One of China's key vulnerability is its dependence on export infrastructure which can be targeted by India for degradation in a war.

 

[Butter Chicken]

US hints at possible collab for development of S-400 like Air-Defence System with India

William Thornberry, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee clearly said in a recent interview that only exemption India can get from Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) federal law on the procurement of weapons from Russia will be for its existing weapons systems in the supply of spares and technical servicing and overhaul from Russia but procurement of S-400 system will lead to violation of the legislation, and will attract possible sanctions on India .

When asked how India’s requirement for Long Ranged Air Defence system will be satisfied to meet its security needs for that Thornberry said that United States Congress already has designated India has major Defence Partner which in that law clearly specifies that Missile Defence System is an area which US and India can work together.

Thornberry said a combination of Indian and US technologies can lead to the development of an Air Missile Defence System which can meet India’s security scenarios and US Government is also in talks with other countries who are interested in procurement of the same system from Russia so that same possible allies can come together for a Joint International Collaboration to meet their requirements .

Thornberry praised US-Israeli Joint development of Arrow missile defense which already has seen development and deployment of Arrow 1, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 and have also started works on next-generation Arrow 4 and see this collab which can be replicated with India if India agrees to not purchase S-400 Air-Defence System from Russia.

In Past India was seen interested in the procurement of Arrow II theatre missile defence interceptor from Israel but was denied due to the MTCR sanctions. India has officially joined the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) as a full member in 2016 but since then India has not shown any interest in the Israeli system again.

Thornberry while speaking to Indian officials might have agreed for the sale of Israeli Arrow theatre missile defense interceptor which has American components for India’s immediate needs and clearly by this statement has offered a Joint collaboration for design and development of a New Aerial Missile Defence System to meet its requirements and also of its allies.

India already has developed a independent Ballistic Missile Defence Programme and the first phase is likely to be deployed soon and work on Phase-II already has commenced. India reportedly is also working on the development of Two long Range Surface to Air Missile in class of 250 km along with a 120 km which will be part of its XR-SAM Aerial Missile Defence System which gradually will be upgraded to S-400 Class Aerial Missile Defence System.

 

[Kshithij]

US hints at possible collab for development of S-400 like Air-Defence System with India

William Thornberry, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee clearly said in a recent interview that only exemption India can get from Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) federal law on the procurement of weapons from Russia will be for its existing weapons systems in the supply of spares and technical servicing and overhaul from Russia but procurement of S-400 system will lead to violation of the legislation, and will attract possible sanctions on India .

When asked how India’s requirement for Long Ranged Air Defence system will be satisfied to meet its security needs for that Thornberry said that United States Congress already has designated India has major Defence Partner which in that law clearly specifies that Missile Defence System is an area which US and India can work together.

Thornberry said a combination of Indian and US technologies can lead to the development of an Air Missile Defence System which can meet India’s security scenarios and US Government is also in talks with other countries who are interested in procurement of the same system from Russia so that same possible allies can come together for a Joint International Collaboration to meet their requirements .

Thornberry praised US-Israeli Joint development of Arrow missile defense which already has seen development and deployment of Arrow 1, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 and have also started works on next-generation Arrow 4 and see this collab which can be replicated with India if India agrees to not purchase S-400 Air-Defence System from Russia.

In Past India was seen interested in the procurement of Arrow II theatre missile defence interceptor from Israel but was denied due to the MTCR sanctions. India has officially joined the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) as a full member in 2016 but since then India has not shown any interest in the Israeli system again.

Thornberry while speaking to Indian officials might have agreed for the sale of Israeli Arrow theatre missile defense interceptor which has American components for India’s immediate needs and clearly by this statement has offered a Joint collaboration for design and development of a New Aerial Missile Defence System to meet its requirements and also of its allies.

India already has developed a independent Ballistic Missile Defence Programme and the first phase is likely to be deployed soon and work on Phase-II already has commenced. India reportedly is also working on the development of Two long Range Surface to Air Missile in class of 250 km along with a 120 km which will be part of its XR-SAM Aerial Missile Defence System which gradually will be upgraded to S-400 Class Aerial Missile Defence System.

It was USA that vetoed sale of arrow missile to India. Why will India trust USA to give any technology now? USA even refused the sale of the system without ToT due to fears that India will reverse engineer. This gimmicks now will not cut it

 

[Mikesingh]

politicians are selfish and greedy and want power at any cost...How can you compete with China ?

The only way is to have a presidential form of government. But that unfortunately is a pipedream.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/wo...al-with-russia-ambassador-pankaj-saran-446261

despite-us-concern-india-won-t-back-out-of-s-400-air-defence-deal-with-russia-ambassador-pankaj-saran

 

[Mikesingh]

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/wo...al-with-russia-ambassador-pankaj-saran-446261
despite-us-concern-india-won-t-back-out-of-s-400-air-defence-deal-with-russia-ambassador-pankaj-saran

India to go ahead with S-400 deal with Russia notwithstanding US sanctions

India has very clearly conveyed to the US that the "time-tested" Indo-Russian cooperation in the defence sector will continue, including the deal for S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems for the IAF, notwithstanding the American sanctions against Moscow.

Sources said India wants its defence transactions with Russia to be insulated from the purview of stringent American law CAATSA and is likely to raise the issue with the US when the two sides meet in Washington for the 2+2 talks n ..

"We have mentioned that CAATSA cannot impact the India-Russia defence cooperation," Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said at a press conference.

Top American lawmakers and experts have warned that imposition of sanctions on India under a newly-enacted law if it buys the S-400 air defence missile system from Russia could be disastrous for the Indo-US ties.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/64466311.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The deal will be signed in Oct and deliveries commenced by 2019. Trump needs to bite only what he can chew.

 

[WolfPack86]

US Arm Twists India to Buy Patriot-3 Systems And Not Russians S-400
Late last year, the Iran-supported Houthi rebels in Yemen fired a Burqan-2 missile (a Scud variant) aimed at the international airport in Riyadh some 600 miles to the northeast. The missile got to its target alright but due to the strains in the metal canister induced by the flight, blew apart with the debris littering parts of the runway and the road outside the airport.

The Saudis, however, claimed that they had fired five Patriot advanced capability (PAC-3) interceptor at the intruder and had destroyed the Houthi Burqan.

US President Donald Trump visiting Saudi Arabia not long after that event crowed, “Our system knocked the missile out of the air. That’s how good we are. Nobody makes what we make, and now we’re selling it all over the world.”

Trump is a loud, less than, credible snake oil salesman at the best of times. As promoter of the PAC-3 he is eminently ignorable, as is any US official urging friendly countries to buy this air defence system whose worldwide publicity is far better than its performance.

Except, and this is a kicker, an analysis by air defence experts of the debris distribution and of the parts of the Burqan system that the Saudis proudly displayed days after the attack, came to the conclusion, as reported in the American press, that the incoming missile had come apart by itself at the end of its trajectory and, more shocking still to Trump Admin officials, the Pentagon, and Raytheon — the maker of the Patriot, that all the five PAC-3 interceptors the Saudis fired had missed the target!

Last month Tina Kaidanow, principal deputy assistant secretary of the US State Department’s Political-Military Affairs Bureau, came to Delhi on a triple-pronged mission — to press Delhi to sign the remaining two “foundational” agreements — COMCASA and BECA as follow up to the LSA; and to prevent India signing up to buy the Russian counterpart of the PAC-3, the S-400, for $5 billion; and to persuade the Modi government to buy instead the American product, PAC-3, that doesn’t work.

While Kaidanow’s visit wasn’t reported by the Indian media, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj’s statement that India would go in for the Russian item even if it attracted US sanctions under the 2018 Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, was.

Apparently, the US State Dept official’s muffled threat of CAATSA did not work, nor did it “engender a willingness” on the part of the Indian government to think about the US PAC-3 system as replacement. And as regards COMCASA and BECA she was told nothing she could be reassured by.

“As a function of trying to move the defense relationship forward — and certainly the defense trade relationship — it is important that those foundational agreements are considered by the Indian government, they are acted on hopefully as expeditiously as possible,” Kaidanow told the Washington defence media. “Of course it is their sovereign right to decide on these things, but our hope is that we have presented to them some good options and some ways forward. Hopefully we can make some progress in that relatively soon.”

And pertaining to the F-16 and perhaps also the PAC-3, she said “American defense product is great product — it is the best in the world. It’s central that countries really think about when they acquire these things — and particularly when we’re talking about important systems … — that they think about the quality and the interoperability piece and all of the things that we know come with the acquisition of American products.”

Kaidanow is right. Buying military goods from the US comes with lot of attached baggage and just too many do’s and don’t’s, inclusive of the uncertainty attending on the spares supply, which can be stopped at any time on Congressional whim and an Administration’s fancy. And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised.

Whether Prime Minister Narendra Modi is convinced about the cons outweighing the pros or not, the political scene at home tilting against him suggests his government is unlikely during the remainder of its first term at least to sign any accords, or buy anything big from America, let alone nix the S-400 deal, go in for the PAC-3, and permanently turn Russia into an enemy.
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=558914

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

US Arm Twists India to Buy Patriot-3 Systems And Not Russians S-400
Late last year, the Iran-supported Houthi rebels in Yemen fired a Burqan-2 missile (a Scud variant) aimed at the international airport in Riyadh some 600 miles to the northeast. The missile got to its target alright but due to the strains in the metal canister induced by the flight, blew apart with the debris littering parts of the runway and the road outside the airport.

The Saudis, however, claimed that they had fired five Patriot advanced capability (PAC-3) interceptor at the intruder and had destroyed the Houthi Burqan.

US President Donald Trump visiting Saudi Arabia not long after that event crowed, “Our system knocked the missile out of the air. That’s how good we are. Nobody makes what we make, and now we’re selling it all over the world.”

Trump is a loud, less than, credible snake oil salesman at the best of times. As promoter of the PAC-3 he is eminently ignorable, as is any US official urging friendly countries to buy this air defence system whose worldwide publicity is far better than its performance.

Except, and this is a kicker, an analysis by air defence experts of the debris distribution and of the parts of the Burqan system that the Saudis proudly displayed days after the attack, came to the conclusion, as reported in the American press, that the incoming missile had come apart by itself at the end of its trajectory and, more shocking still to Trump Admin officials, the Pentagon, and Raytheon — the maker of the Patriot, that all the five PAC-3 interceptors the Saudis fired had missed the target!

Last month Tina Kaidanow, principal deputy assistant secretary of the US State Department’s Political-Military Affairs Bureau, came to Delhi on a triple-pronged mission — to press Delhi to sign the remaining two “foundational” agreements — COMCASA and BECA as follow up to the LSA; and to prevent India signing up to buy the Russian counterpart of the PAC-3, the S-400, for $5 billion; and to persuade the Modi government to buy instead the American product, PAC-3, that doesn’t work.

While Kaidanow’s visit wasn’t reported by the Indian media, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj’s statement that India would go in for the Russian item even if it attracted US sanctions under the 2018 Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, was.

Apparently, the US State Dept official’s muffled threat of CAATSA did not work, nor did it “engender a willingness” on the part of the Indian government to think about the US PAC-3 system as replacement. And as regards COMCASA and BECA she was told nothing she could be reassured by.

“As a function of trying to move the defense relationship forward — and certainly the defense trade relationship — it is important that those foundational agreements are considered by the Indian government, they are acted on hopefully as expeditiously as possible,” Kaidanow told the Washington defence media. “Of course it is their sovereign right to decide on these things, but our hope is that we have presented to them some good options and some ways forward. Hopefully we can make some progress in that relatively soon.”

And pertaining to the F-16 and perhaps also the PAC-3, she said “American defense product is great product — it is the best in the world. It’s central that countries really think about when they acquire these things — and particularly when we’re talking about important systems … — that they think about the quality and the interoperability piece and all of the things that we know come with the acquisition of American products.”

Kaidanow is right. Buying military goods from the US comes with lot of attached baggage and just too many do’s and don’t’s, inclusive of the uncertainty attending on the spares supply, which can be stopped at any time on Congressional whim and an Administration’s fancy. And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised.

Whether Prime Minister Narendra Modi is convinced about the cons outweighing the pros or not, the political scene at home tilting against him suggests his government is unlikely during the remainder of its first term at least to sign any accords, or buy anything big from America, let alone nix the S-400 deal, go in for the PAC-3, and permanently turn Russia into an enemy.
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=558914

Another congressi trying to spark 'anti Modi wave'. He is shilling for PAC 3 even!:bounce::bounce::bounce:

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Another congressi trying to spark 'anti Modi wave'. He is shilling for PAC 3 even!:bounce::bounce::bounce:

Dude, did you even read the article? It clearly says that the patriot doesn't work and all 5 missiles missed their targets in Saudi Arabia. The author is pro s400 deal through and through. Just re read the article.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Dude, did you even read the article? It clearly says that the patriot doesn't work and all 5 missiles missed their targets in Saudi Arabia. The author is pro s400 deal through and through. Just re read the article.

I did. But read last para. The PAC 3 deal was never mentioned. Read between the lines.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

I did. But read last para. The PAC 3 deal was never mentioned. Read between the lines.

He said "nixing the s400 deal will permanently make Russia an enemy". And just before that "And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised". I guess we're seeing different things between the lines.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

He said "nixing the s400 deal will permanently make Russia an enemy". And just before that "And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised". I guess we're seeing different things between the lines.

The whole speculation of Modi's troubles back home. You don't put that shit in a defence article. This is stealth concern trolling.

 

[WARREN SS]

He said "nixing the s400 deal will permanently make Russia an enemy". And just before that "And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised". I guess we're seeing different things between the lines.

Do S-400 are also not work as same as advertised

Oops S-400 or S-300 series are not even seen field operational

 

[Blood Rain]

He said "nixing the s400 deal will permanently make Russia an enemy". And just before that "And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised". I guess we're seeing different things between the lines.

You are wasting your time..............................

 

[bhramos]

US Arm Twists India to Buy Patriot-3 Systems And Not Russians S-400

 

[ezsasa]

US Arm Twists India to Buy Patriot-3 Systems And Not Russians S-400
Late last year, the Iran-supported Houthi rebels in Yemen fired a Burqan-2 missile (a Scud variant) aimed at the international airport in Riyadh some 600 miles to the northeast. The missile got to its target alright but due to the strains in the metal canister induced by the flight, blew apart with the debris littering parts of the runway and the road outside the airport.

The Saudis, however, claimed that they had fired five Patriot advanced capability (PAC-3) interceptor at the intruder and had destroyed the Houthi Burqan.

US President Donald Trump visiting Saudi Arabia not long after that event crowed, “Our system knocked the missile out of the air. That’s how good we are. Nobody makes what we make, and now we’re selling it all over the world.”

Trump is a loud, less than, credible snake oil salesman at the best of times. As promoter of the PAC-3 he is eminently ignorable, as is any US official urging friendly countries to buy this air defence system whose worldwide publicity is far better than its performance.

Except, and this is a kicker, an analysis by air defence experts of the debris distribution and of the parts of the Burqan system that the Saudis proudly displayed days after the attack, came to the conclusion, as reported in the American press, that the incoming missile had come apart by itself at the end of its trajectory and, more shocking still to Trump Admin officials, the Pentagon, and Raytheon — the maker of the Patriot, that all the five PAC-3 interceptors the Saudis fired had missed the target!

Last month Tina Kaidanow, principal deputy assistant secretary of the US State Department’s Political-Military Affairs Bureau, came to Delhi on a triple-pronged mission — to press Delhi to sign the remaining two “foundational” agreements — COMCASA and BECA as follow up to the LSA; and to prevent India signing up to buy the Russian counterpart of the PAC-3, the S-400, for $5 billion; and to persuade the Modi government to buy instead the American product, PAC-3, that doesn’t work.

While Kaidanow’s visit wasn’t reported by the Indian media, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj’s statement that India would go in for the Russian item even if it attracted US sanctions under the 2018 Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, was.

Apparently, the US State Dept official’s muffled threat of CAATSA did not work, nor did it “engender a willingness” on the part of the Indian government to think about the US PAC-3 system as replacement. And as regards COMCASA and BECA she was told nothing she could be reassured by.

“As a function of trying to move the defense relationship forward — and certainly the defense trade relationship — it is important that those foundational agreements are considered by the Indian government, they are acted on hopefully as expeditiously as possible,” Kaidanow told the Washington defence media. “Of course it is their sovereign right to decide on these things, but our hope is that we have presented to them some good options and some ways forward. Hopefully we can make some progress in that relatively soon.”

And pertaining to the F-16 and perhaps also the PAC-3, she said “American defense product is great product — it is the best in the world. It’s central that countries really think about when they acquire these things — and particularly when we’re talking about important systems … — that they think about the quality and the interoperability piece and all of the things that we know come with the acquisition of American products.”

Kaidanow is right. Buying military goods from the US comes with lot of attached baggage and just too many do’s and don’t’s, inclusive of the uncertainty attending on the spares supply, which can be stopped at any time on Congressional whim and an Administration’s fancy. And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised.

Whether Prime Minister Narendra Modi is convinced about the cons outweighing the pros or not, the political scene at home tilting against him suggests his government is unlikely during the remainder of its first term at least to sign any accords, or buy anything big from America, let alone nix the S-400 deal, go in for the PAC-3, and permanently turn Russia into an enemy.
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=558914

How can US arm twist us to buy PAC-3, when it hasn’t been offered to us till last month(as per CSIS video in think tank thread)?

This is just lobbyists making noise......

Even if this news is true, it would take at least 4-5 years to reach a new deal. By that time we might even have a domestic system developed and ready to go.

 

[Kshithij]

How can US arm twist us to buy PAC-3, when it hasn’t been offered to us till last month(as per CSIS video in think tank thread)?

This is just lobbyists making noise......

Even if this news is true, it would take at least 4-5 years to reach a new deal. By that time we might even have a domestic system developed and ready to go.

The point about S400 is that India wants ToT of the missile to help in XR SAM. USA is unlikely to provide the ToT to India.

 

[Kalki_2018]

PAC-III like its predecessors is a joke. Can't see India backing out of S-400 deal now. XRSAM will be indigenous and based on the Prahaar/AAD missile.