India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

[Austin316]

Terroristan started dropping weapon package using hexacopter in Akhnoor Sector to help the savages. How long GOI will be brushing this under carpet and pretending nothing has happened? the outdated rules of engagement , really sucks. can anyone explain why this not an act of war even if they violate to small scale level

 

[ezsasa]

Terroristan started dropping weapon package using hexacopter in Akhnoor Sector to help the savages. How long GOI will be brushing this under carpet and pretending nothing has happened? the outdated rules of engagement , really sucks. can anyone explain why this not an act of war even if they violate to small scale level

assuming the question is not rhetorical.

GoI wants to treat it as an act of terror not war. they have been trying to get consensus on CCIT (Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism) , world is not co-operating . India is the author of this draft policy.

link below.

Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/422477?ln=en

Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BhishmaMk5]

A CAG auditor scrutinizing Defense accounts gave some heads-up, and surprise, surprise, it's the same old story of government departments being run by a bunch of power-hungry seniors who don't give a damn about anything but their own pensions.

These guys are no saints, they're just "bureaucrats with weapons" having an inflated sense of importance.

This decade more and more people are waking up to their BS, and they're gonna be held accountable.

Most of these seniors are just in it for the cream and the pensions, and they couldn't care less about modernization or training. The juniors, JCOSs, and NCOs are just cannon fodder to them.

December 8th is a black day in Indian Military history.
When he left, I thought he must have trained someone to carry on his legacy.
All his effort went down the drain. He tried so hard to fix this mess of an organization...
But two years have passed, and sadly, have to admit that there is no one, and there won't be for at least next two decades.

 

[Austin316]

assuming the question is not rhetorical.

GoI wants to treat it as an act of terror not war. they have been trying to get consensus on CCIT (Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism) , world is not co-operating . India is the author of this draft policy.

link below.

Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/422477?ln=en

Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What if we reciprocate the same by arming unknown men on our side flying those drones across dropping some live ammunitions over the high value target. Balalkot mini but operating thru unofficial source will terroristan not reactive?

 

[jai jaganath]

Yes number has reached 5
Samjh lo Jo samajh na hai
Everytime they come kill 5 and face no consequences
GOI has given them wonderful window
Kill 5(including officers) to increase dying enthusiasm for freedom
Top officers face no consequences for their ego and not learning nature
Govt having no issues as not affecting their electoral politics
Win-win for everyone
Only we people the widows and the orphans cry unnecessarily
Truly depressing
Om Shanti

 

[chalochum]

I think its not about GOI...Modi, Ninda mama and co have already given a free hand for local operations in such instances...so its the on-ground officers who have to chalk up a plan and carry out the counter-ops.
That is where there is massive inertia along with intel gaps.
Understand that to begin with any terror attack in Indian boundary always starts with the assumption there is intelligence failure.
As lots of folks have pointed out that retrospective isn't done systematically (or not done at all). If you cannot learn from repeated mistakes and plug the gaps then I'm afraid that on-ground team is not competent.

 

[Kumaoni]

Even more unpopular opinion - too many armchair generals in a hurry here. This is an ongoing firefight, any news is sketchy and fragmented. The least that can be done is to hold off on specific criticism till we are more certain of the facts. Extrapolation from previous incidents are unnecessary and not in good taste at this point. Criticism may be warranted but circumspection is not without virtue.

If i had to place my life on the saving, i’d chose any “armchair general” from this forum than your pathetic low IQ bafoons which inhibit your upper brass.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

ALL THANKS TO INDIAN HOROMI SUPER FARTING MONEY GUZZLING GENROLS..

 

[Kumaoni]

List of ambushes in 2023:
April 20, 2023- poonch ambush- 5 KIA
May 8th 2023- rajouri ambush- 5 KIA
Aug 6 2023- Kulgam ambush- 3 KIA
September 2023- Kokernag ambush 5 kia
Today- Kalakote encounter ambush 5 kia
23 KIA in just 5 encounters.

This is twice the armies casualties in total last year.

 

[mokoman]

Terroristan started dropping weapon package using hexacopter in Akhnoor Sector to help the savages. How long GOI will be brushing this under carpet and pretending nothing has happened? the outdated rules of engagement , really sucks. can anyone explain why this not an act of war even if they violate to small scale level

there is some bizzare equilibrium and rules at LOC between india/pakistan .

some things qualify for cross border response . some things dont.

besides u can also ask , why these drrones are not being used to bomb army/iaf bases . they already bombed iaf base once . its not a question of difficulty or these places being protected.

 

[Kumaoni]

there is some bizzare equilibrium and rules at LOC between india/pakistan .

some things qualify for cross border response . some things dont.

besides u can also ask , why these drrones are not being used to bomb army/iaf bases . they already bombed iaf base once . its not a question of difficulty or these places being protected.

Im sorry but i think killing COs and Majors is definitely something which any sane and strong minded country with an actual backbone would respond to.

 

[Truthsoldier]

It saddens me so much young officers and men dying and not a word of acknowledgement or condolence message from political leadership. No tweet or statement comes from PM or RM. Why are they not scrapping ceasefire with Pakistan. No accountability for the lost lives of bravehearts. Till how long will we this disregard for soldiers' lives?

 

[ezsasa]

What if we reciprocate the same by arming unknown men on our side flying those drones across dropping some live ammunitions over the high value target. Balalkot mini but operating thru unofficial source will terroristan not reactive?

here's where origin story of a newly created nation matters, it has implications of how they behave later.

concept of independent India predates 1947 by a few decades. which ever version of concept of India was in vogue at that time, there was clarity on thing, be it as a nation or a dominion, idea was always that India would be responsible power in world stage.

for pakjab on the other hand, other the core concept that muslims and hindus can not live together i.e two nation theory, they never had clarity on what they want to be. every choice they made before and after formation of that country, revolved around two nation theory. it continues till today.

since such a tactic was never implemented for west pakistan, we have to assume strategic policy planners arrived at the conclusion that such a tactic will not serve our national interest. since independence, be it china or pakjab, core strategic outlook largely remains the same against our adversarial neighbours . i.e defensive doctrine.

there may be many ideas, but those ideas should be able to assist in larger strategic goals.

 

[Kumaoni]

not a defense expert either, but as an observer for a long time, can say a few things. at one point in time, i used to have the same concerns you have.

-from handling 5-10 encounters simultaneously at one point in time, security forces has brought it down to current rate.
-it's not just security forces counter tactics evolving, tango counter-counter-tactics also evolve. it's a cycle.
-if a neighbouring nuclear adversary military is investing in cross border terrorism as a strategy, they wouldn't be investing in it if such a strategy was be countered easily.
- every encounter is different, successful encounters too need appreciation.

news media and social media encourages extrapolation logics, as in one dataset is a judgement on entire spectrum. it's an old trick.

for example :
-Nirbhaya case happens, headlines extrapolated to "all Indian men are rapists".
- some british fellow counted sati cases in 1000 sq km area in bengal two hundred years ago, extrapolated to all hindus burn their widows.

we need to be aware of the fact that, this is not the only way to do assessments. i want people to consciously avoid self-defeating extrapolative logics.

Okay but here’s my counter:
1. The army operates in the same way, if not less efficient than it did when those “5-10” encounters happened a day.
2. The army has failed to evolve its COIN doctrine to anything modern and usually improvised after it takes a hurting, as seen in Kokernag
3. The army continues to make the exact same mistakes, when it was had numerous learning points and avenues
4. The army still does not understand the use of dedicated snipers and NVGs, which could reduce the casualty rate by 30% at the very least
5. The army has completely fucked up Paras role in kashmir. From doing cross LoC ops to being rescue and RR QRT. Btw- even officers have questioned “where is RRs QRT in such cases”

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[ezsasa]

Okay but here’s my counter:
1. The army operates in the same way, if not less efficient than it did when those “5-10” encounters happened a day.
2. The army has failed to evolve its COIN doctrine to anything modern and usually improvised after it takes a hurting, as seen in Kokernag
3. The army continues to make the exact same mistakes, when it was had numerous learning points and avenues
4. The army still does not understand the use of dedicated snipers and NVGs, which could reduce the casualty rate by 30% at the very least
5. The army has completely fucked up Paras role in kashmir. From doing cross LoC ops to being rescue and RR QRT. Btw- even officers have questioned “where is RRs QRT in such cases”

sure, you are entitled to your observations. if anyone is interested in taking you up on specific technical discussions, please go ahead. that is what this forum is for.

the reason i had intervened in this thread today, is to remind the members that expansive extrapolative self-defeating arguments are a waste of time, and don't help anybody in furthering their understanding.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Illusive]

I think this is an area where AI would come in strong with strategy once its trained with enough info. Ofcourse cant completely rely on it but I think its going to be a big factor on how we fight these battles.

 

[Vinash]

The two Pakistani terorists currently trapped in Rajouri encounter site had recently taken shelter in a local mosque.

PLA demolishes Mosques in Xinjiang.

IA offers namaz in Mosques in Kashmir.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]